Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by superpunk, Apr 16, 2008.
I am Shocked!!!
Had No Clue!!!
Our special forces are trained in anti-interrogation techniques. Rather than not talking, they talk. They inform the other side of small, unimportant things that can be confirmed. The stuff gets confirmed, and the process continues. Then, they eventually talk about stuff that can't be confirmed. Then the other side has to make a decision of whether or not they are telling the truth. They can't know for sure, since they cannot confirm it. The whole point being, it becomes a giant waste of time.
If we train our people like this; you can bet the other side does as well.
Further more, torture may help with small, tactical stuff. But the broad political purpose of any military action gets undermined. The other side can use that to undermine the legitimacy of a gov't, which is half of their goal.
I have no problem with any of this.
They have no permanent damage done to them after it's over. Other than they just talked.
This country is becoming a country full of wussies who are afraid to hurt a terrorist because they may be violated but at the same time some of these same goofballs say that 9/11 was an inside job and such.
I say take them all and waterboard each one of them. When the word gets out that we are doing this maybe they will be quicker to give up the info.
Right now they figure that some in our own government would protect them.
For crying out loud, THEY WAT TO KILL US!
Some people don't get this.
Hell, we dropped an atomic bomb on their country. I guess he was justified because we wanted to kill them. Maybe we can acquit him and clear his record posthumously?
The difference was that we didn't start that war or this one.
We just ended it.
Forgot who said it.... although I know McNamara talks about in Fog of War....
"Thank God we won the war, or we'd have been prosecuted for war crimes."
Point being; justification comes not through what actions are done... but by the victor.
Your justification earlier was merely that they want to kill us, and so "any means necessary" is justified - no matter what treaties it violates or moral status it dissolves. I guess since that doesn't jive with history you had to expand it a bit to r if someone starts a war with you."
This country agreed that torture was unacceptable back in the day. They didn't agree that it was unacceptable unless your enemy wants to kill you, or starts a war with you. Now top members of the executive branch sit around in rooms deciding just how they're going to torture people. Their secrecy and disregard for principles and treaties that the country has decided to live by is appalling, and really shows their character.
Which war on you talking about? The War on Terror or the war in Iraq?
A group of Al Qaeda terrorists started the War on Terror when they attacked on 9/11 and the U.S. rightly reciprocated by going after them in Afghanistan.
Bush did start the war in Iraq. Iraq didn't invade or attack the U.S. first.
Water boarding is torture. The real question should be "is this form of torture(water boarding) going over the line or not?"
George Bush says the moon is blue and puppies can fly.
Do not argue with George Bush. He speaks to the almighty daily.
I wouldnt bother arguing with his defenders either. They can admit no wrong doing of any kind. Its a waste of everyones time. He will walk off into the sunset at the end of the year and the next man or woman will step into a mess like parcells stepped into in january of 03.
Torture is pulling out fingernails or using a cattle prod on genitals, etc. Only a wuss calls waterboarding that. Unfortunately some of our own people let the wusses convince them it was torture.
Another thing for the wusses there and on this board to consider:
If the terrorists win because we were not tough enough=are you going to feel righteous as they execute you and your family?
Do you bother to ever reallylook at what you post theebs?
Talk about self righteous and arrogant.
Self Righteous? Hardly.
Sick of stubborn people defending parties instead of people and real issues. Yes.
Iraq played no part in this war? They signed an agreement for the cease fire they continued for 12 years of kicking inspectors out and locking on and firing surface to air missiles at US fighter jets who were patrolling the no fly zone. They were given fair warning of the consequents and helped choose their own fate. Personally I think the US waited a few years too long in allowing Iraq to continually break the agreement as well as circumvent the sanction which proved to be a joke
Terrorists, when they attack, hope to draw a response. They want a response bec. it helps recruit people to their cause.
I am NOT saying they don't deserve a response NOR am I saying we should abstain from attacking when its needed.
I will now allow time for you to read that once more, before I continue.
The terrorists broad goal is to influence politics one way or another, for the benefit of whatever "cause" they happen to support.
One of their ways to do so is to delegitimize the other side. They have to show the common people that the government cannot provide the common people what they need. If they can do that, it creates political instability and gives the terrorists hope they can win the battle of ideals and win over the common people, gaining political power.
Torture might help at the tactical level.
But it also helps the terrorists too. They don't care if some of their members are tortured/killed. They care about perception.
If we use torture, it plays right into their hand. They will talk it up (nevermind that they use it too; that's irrelevant). They use it as propaganda to deligitimize what we are doing. And it works. Because the lack of education/access to free press prevents the common people from knowing what truly is going on.
If we are going to successfully fight the War on Terror, we cannot afford to let the terrorists delegitimize what we are doing.
Of course Iraq played a part. It just is not so straight forward to say we didn't start this war. That is not accurate. We didn't start the war with Japan is accurate. We didn't start the war with Al Qaeda is accurate. There is a lot more that goes into it when talking about the war in Iraq.
Well we went to war with Germany yet they did not attack us and we had no intent in getting involved and only did so after Japan attack us. Were we wrong in getting involved in the war against Germany?
Germany declared War on us after Japan attacked us.
>>>"Why are we talking about this in the White House?" the network quoted Ashcroft as saying during one meeting. "History will not judge this kindly."
hopefully they won't judge online beheadings too kindly either.
Eh...whether we prosecuted someone in the 40s for it or not, I just don't see how waterboarding is "torture" in that it's inappropriate interrogation technique.