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Our wonderful school system

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by burmafrd, Aug 26, 2009.

  1. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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  2. Kangaroo

    Kangaroo Active Member

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    The reason math is stagnant is the change to how they teach math in the early years they have kids doing word type math problems to get them ready for standardized testing. When in first through 5 grade all math should be nothing but the basic add,subtract,multiply and divided. I mean I had to teach my kid the multiplication table :bang2: and they wonder why kids struggle because most parents do not get involved and the ones in charge of schools are idiots.
  3. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    Why would education matter at this point?
    Egg heads aren't honored, talentless goons that show their *** and make fools of themselves on TV, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that the way to not only make a living, but to make more than enough is to be willing to make an *** of yourself for money, are.

    More Americans know of Paris Hilton than Stephen Hawking.
  4. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that their is some truth to what you say here Roo. Last night I sat with my youngest daughter, 12, and helped her with her math homework. Essentially, they gave her a problem with two variables and asked her to solve, using a grid method where you plug in different answers to try and solve. I didn't understand this at all. I told her to use an Algebraic method to solve. I showed her how to assign values and lay them out properly in an algebraic equation. She learned it and used it to solve all 5 of the questions assigned. Now, what will happen is that the teacher will tell her that she did not use the proper method to find the answer. I know this but I also know that she now understands how to find those kinds of answers and that is the goal, as I understand it.
  5. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    I am glad I am not the only one frustrated with the "new math". I send my 13 year old son to private school and they still insist on teaching the "new math". This year is the first year he likes his math teacher because he teaches the same way I do. I know exactly what you are talking about with the grids and estimating. It's a bunch of garbage that is wasting valuable class time.
  6. CowboyWay

    CowboyWay If Coach would have put me in, we'd a won State

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    Good post. Alot of truth to it.
  7. Temo

    Temo Well-Known Member

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    I got an 800 on my Math SATs. I enjoy math a lot, and I'm pretty good at it. I double majored in Economics and Statistics for my undergrad. To make money in college, I tutored SAT Math for Kaplan, making 22-25 dollars an hour. As you can guess, that was GREAT money for a college kid.

    So when I graduated a year ago, I considered teaching math coming out of college. I looked at the salary I could make teaching High School Math at a public school (after taking a masters in education, no less). It was LESS than I could make doing SAT tutoring for a private company as an undergrad with no teaching experience. It was FAR less than taking the job I eventually took in the private sector (not teaching by the way, doing market research now).

    And people wonder why our teachers suck.
  8. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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  9. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Amen.

    Teachers aren't paid what they should be. Not all teachers deserve it but there are a good number of teachers out there who are quality people doing a great job and deserve more. If teachers were paid more, you'd see the number of crappy teachers drop in only a few years.
  10. Temo

    Temo Well-Known Member

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    And just to prove that I'm not saying School Teachers are taken advantage of or anything... I think the idea of a Teacher's Union is just bull. One of the reasons that good teachers aren't paid enough is that it's impossible to fire the bad ones.

    Teaching should be a profession, like doctors, lawyers, whatever. Not a job that requires a union like factory workers or dock workers or something. The teacher's union has long been helping hurt the pace of educational reform rather than encourage it.
  11. Kangaroo

    Kangaroo Active Member

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    Ding ding that at I am sorry the teacher education degree is worthless. Yet Texas Requires that to teach. It is quite funny if they will take a teacher and have them teach a coarse on something they had like 1 course on because they have a Teacher Education Degree but the person with a masters in Math can not teach in the public school system without first getting the stupid classes and certificate :bang2::bang2:
  12. Temo

    Temo Well-Known Member

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    In case you guys are interested, Malcolm Gladwell wrote a great piece for the New Yorker a few months ago, where he compared the effort to find successful NFL QBs to the effort to find successful school teachers. His basic point is that the best way to determine if someone can be an NFL QB (or a teacher) is to just throw them in there and see if they float.

    It's a great read, though I don't agree with everything he says (on the football stuff, not the teaching stuff):

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/12/15/081215fa_fact_gladwell
  13. arglebargle

    arglebargle Well-Known Member

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    Good thread.

    But, I got an issue with the teacher's should be like a profession example. Bad doctors don't get fired, they just cause the insurance rates for good ones to go up. The AMA protects its guild members. And lawyers almost never sue other lawyers. No matter how incompetant.

    I am happy with the move towards charter schools, experimental schools, etc, to try and figure out what methods will work and why.
  14. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    I'm a firm believer that vocabulary paves the way to success. Science and math only get you so far, imo.
  15. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

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    Me neither :laugh2:

    How about someone points out that we don't do well in math and science because they are boring as you-know-what? That's my case anyways.

    I know it's not necessarily realistic, but I'd like to see kids choose what they want to do earlier...probably not in fourth grade, but earlier in high school or 8th grade, somewhere around there. This way, they can actually be somewhat interested in what they are learning and we won't have millions of kids rotting away looking out the window in a chem lab when they have 0 desire to learn about it.

    Teens are smarter than we think, they know when they don't want to do something, so instead of forcing it down throats only to be forgotten over the summer, how about not wasting time?
  16. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    For starters we used to emphasize teaching the basics in elementary then build on them in junior high then finish in high school. Now courses are watered down because they don't want to be too hard on the children (PC). Now you are not required to take basic algebra in jr high or even in many high schools now but you are required to take all sorts of cultural courses (PC). Add to that you cannot really discipline any more (PC).

    Enough PC links for you?
  17. daschoo

    daschoo Slanje Va

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    not just an american problem. i'm obviously biased in the example i'm about to give. my mother teaches children with mental handicaps and has patience i can only dream of. some of the stories she tells me about the kids and how she rides out their problems, calms them and helps them, talking round parents who have no real interest in their childs development breaks my heart. then she will tell me of another teacher in the school who *specific example coming up* on wednesday stormed out of the school after an argument with the head teacher. this woman is now on her third spell of sick leave for stress in the last four years and is getting paid the same money as my mum. total joke in my book, i would have had her sacked the second time she tried it.
  18. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    So what you're saying is, if you disagree with it or take issue with something it is PC.

    gotcha.
  19. Bizwah

    Bizwah Well-Known Member

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    As an elementary school teacher I've gotta say that I'm frustrated too.

    There are bad teachers....sure....but I believe there are more good teachers out there than bad.

    We have to teach what we're told. We have to teach the kids we're given. We're not like the private schools that deny kids with special needs (at least the ones around here do).

    This year has already frustrated me. I have always tried to teach to mastery. In other words, if I feel my students aren't quite understanding a concept, I'll reteach it. That doesn't mean I'll do the same exact lesson the next day...no, I'll try to find a different way to present the info.

    Well....I'm told not to do that anymore. We spent a lot of money on a Math curriculum that is research-based. We're supposed to follow their planning to the letter. We go from one lesson to another basically following a script. If I feel the students are struggling with the lesson....well, I have to move on. I'm told the curriculum is designed to spiral......concepts will be revisited at a later time.

    Now....our administrators are awesome. They were great school teachers who took the next step. Why are we being pushed into this by them?

    Testing......No Child Left Behind. Even though our scores have improved each of the last four years, we're identified as a school in need of improvement. Why? Our special ed kids didn't quite make the progress that the gov't felt they should. We are also required to teach more and more concepts. It's nearly impossible to teach all the concepts effectively in seven months (we test early). So we have to rush through the curriculum.

    Next year, the standards go up....I love having high expectations. But our administrators/school board feel that we may not make it next year. So, we're focusing on getting them ready for testing.

    Yeah...it's frustrating for me. I love to teach. I love history. I get to teach Social Studies twice a week now......We are required to teach more Math and reading concepts. It's nearly impossible to teach all the concepts effectively in seven months (we test early). So we have to rush through the curriculum. We sacrifice one subject to try to save others.

    To me....the government has again over regulated. They compare our scores with other countries and panic. Their answer to this situation. MORE TESTING. MORE control over curriculums....MORE busy work for the teachers.

    Ordinary folks think the same thing. Even some of the more cool-headed, logical people on this board don't think about reasons for our school struggles. They don't want to consider the fact that public schools take on ALL COMERS. We accept kids that speak virtually no English, but are expected to take the standardized test anyway. I had a boy in my class last year that was taken out of his home because he was beaten. But the state still expected him to test....are you kidding?

    We're expected to get all of these kids on/above grade-level (with one hand behind our back) and we're told we're incompetent if we can't.

    Listen....I hate to be gripy. I hate to sound like a cry-baby....I agree that our system needs fixing.

    I just wish the government would understand how to do it.

    I'm reminded of a teacher's meeting I went to several years ago. The speaker was trying to inspire us by making us watch "Apollo 13". He made us watch the scene where the engineers were told to find a way to put a "square peg in a round hole". He wanted us to list phrases that reminded us of the job we had to do....I guess it was supposed to be inspiring....we were supposed to choose motivating phrases.

    When asked to share the phrase I most identified with, I replied.......

    "Tell me this isn't a government-run operation."

    That pretty much sums up the problems with our system.
  20. Kangaroo

    Kangaroo Active Member

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    I understand the Government gets in the way; I still ask why do we need a Department of Education at the federal level 99.9% of the schools are State or Private there are only a handful of federal Colleges the ones I can name of my head are the 3 service Academy's .

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