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Question for the Liberal Side

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by ABQCOWBOY, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. CanadianCowboysFan

    CanadianCowboysFan Lightning Rod

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    so even though the old guy will only be a drain the rest of his life, you would treat him over the child that might ultimately cure cancer later in life?

    Re the first bogus hypothetical, fine treat the American but only if his parents pay taxes too (no underground economy tax dodgers)
  2. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    If they aren't a legal citizen, I don't think we should provide for more than emergency care. Once they are to a point that they are stable enough to be released, they are on their own. So, I don't really see it as necessary to build clinics for things that aren't really life or death emergencies.

    I'm a heartless ******* though. :D
  3. CanadianCowboysFan

    CanadianCowboysFan Lightning Rod

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    At least you're honest about it ;)

    People will always abuse the system. I was in emerg once for really bad flu, I needed. A woman was in there (druggie) who thought she was having a miscarriage but hadn't even confirmed she was pregnant.

    No matter what the system, there are problems and waste. My system has flaws, your system has flaws.
  4. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    And that's true. What might not be life or death one day could turn into something life or death if not diagnosed by trained medical personnel. At that point, we are still going to assume the cost and it might even cost us more than if we had just provided medical care in the first place.

    Again, as I said earlier, there isn't an easy solution. Well, I guess the easy solution is to cover everyone, but we as a country don't really want to pay for it. So, that doesn't really work.
  5. DaBoys4Life

    DaBoys4Life Benched

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    I don't think illegals should have anything.
  6. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    Just a hypothetical for you then. Lets say someone gets hit by a car and an ambulance is called. This person is going to die without medical treatment. The ambulance gets there and we find out that this person is in the country illegally. Do you just leave them to die on the street?

    That's not a solution and it will never happen.
  7. Phrozen Phil

    Phrozen Phil Active Member

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    Civilized discourse on health care? Cool..

    I'm really not sure that the U.S. is ready for a single payer universal health care system. That's not offered as an insult, it's simply my view of the country to the South. Part of the issue is defining "coverage" and many of you guys have pointed that out in one form or another. The issue of treating illegals is hard for me to judge, because I haven't seen the issue of illegal immigration on the scale that you guys have. I do wonder why the focus of the problem doesn't shift to the source.

    Why can't Mexicans get rudimentary health care in Mexico? Until that issue is addressed, it may not matter what laws or safeguards you put up in the U.S., you will always have that issue facing you, barring the invention of a force field that selectively filters out illegals. Some of you will argue that coverage of these folks is not your problem. You may be right, but they're still there and you still see them. Whether it's emergency coverage or treatment of a chronic, life threatening condition, the decisions will not be easy or cheap. Until third world countries are able to deal with their own issues on health care (and for me that means clean water and enough food to feed themselves) then the issues will not go away. It's one thin to have free trade with Mexico, but shouldn't these kinds of issues be part of the discussion?
  8. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    What if the old guy is the guy who actually did cure cancer when he was younger the the young kid grows up to be a mass murderer?

    We can play these games all day but in the end, who am I to say that one life is more important then the other if both are citizens of this country?
  9. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    The reason you provide more is because as a nation, we have already commited to providing more. For it or against it, we do not deny care if somebody comes to the emergency room. The thing you want to do is bring down the cost of emergency care so it would make sense to create a treatment center that could allow for this.
  10. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    To me, it all hinges on keeping people from entering the country illegally. Those that are already here? Lucky you. You made it. Lets give them a path to citizenship so that they can be "on the grid" and start paying taxes. The issue is shutting off the flow into the country.

    If illegal immigrants become a miniscule percentage of what they are now, this issue becomes moot because you can cover them with barely any strain on the system.
  11. Phrozen Phil

    Phrozen Phil Active Member

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    I'm not disagreeing with you on the intent, but I would refer you back to my earlier comment. Shouldn't the issue be about them wanting to stay where they are?
  12. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Why should the ones who are here illegally now be given a free pass for breaking the law? I keep hearing politician says we can't send them all back? Why not? Funny thing is many do not want to be Americans they just want to come work and they send much of the money back home to Mexico.
  13. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    Exactly and there isn't much the US can do to help without incurring significant costs that would far outweigh just covering illegal immigrants in the first place.

    We can't win. :D
  14. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    Well, you deport the ones that don't want to become citizens. You just give them a path to citizenship if they choose to take it. I see nothing wrong with people becoming citizens and paying taxes. That puts them on equal footing with the rest of us in my eyes.
  15. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    I would give you 30 days to report to the INS at which point you would go to the back of the line to become a citizen and those who choose not to will be deported. When so many come here and go through the process and the time and effort to become citizen I think it is dead wrong to hand citizenship to those who broke our laws. I respect the law in any country I go to and damn it I expect our to be honored as well.
  16. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I think it's the part that has not been discussed enough is how immigration reform and healthcare reform need to work together. I honestly believe that both need to be addressed together. No matter what healthcare system we adopt, it's doomed to fail unless we come up with a reasonable policy on immigration.
  17. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, I've said this before. I think we should consider going back to the Citizen Sponsorship Policy this country used to have in the early 20th Century.
  18. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    I don't they are 2 different issues and while one may affect the other I think each should be dealt with separately
  19. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    What part of "(regarding public funds) an American citizen with a life-and-death situation takes place over an illegal immigrant in all cases, period, end of discussion" did you not understand? I mean, seriously... was I too vague when I said "in all cases, period, end of discussion"...? Is there some sort of ambiguity in that statement that I am missing?

    Oh an by the way... anyone who's pro-choice has absolutely no right playing the "that child might ultimately cure cancer later in life" card as you have done.
    It amuses me how getting that response from you was like pulling teeth, and even then it was only begrudgingly given.
  20. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    While I consider myself a conservative and loved Reagan one thing I did not agree with and afraid we are about to do it again is give amnesty to around 15 million illegal’s with the promise of tighter boarder security and that did not happen then and I'm hearing the same song and dance this time around as well.

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