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Question for the Liberal Side

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by ABQCOWBOY, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not in favor of this. It's delaying tactic that never comes up again once the next round gets voted in.
  2. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    I would say you would need to tighten border security and then give amnesty. Not the other way around.
  3. DaBoys4Life

    DaBoys4Life Benched

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    I never thought of it that way.
  4. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Well I think this issue must be dealt with on it's on not part of a package plan. I think we will end up with 1 bill that screws us all the way around. Government ran healthcare that will get stick us with amnesty and false promise.

    Republicans and Hopefully the Blue Dog Democrats will hold their ground not pass a poor government ran health bill.

    Then deal with Immigration reform which the republicans should push strong for given the fact we have unemployment around 10% this is the time to strike to get real change in immigration and I don't want to see it watered down under another bill
  5. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    Perhaps tie immigration and health care together. The person comes to the hospital for care, they have to either start the process of becoming a legal citizen, or ICE is called once they are stable and they are taken back to their country.

    Just thinking outside the box a little. :D
  6. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    I agree however I'm not for giving amnesty per say.
  7. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I did not say a packaged plan. I said addressed together and by that I mean, both reforms need to be worked now. If anything, I think you need to pass immigration reform first because if you don't, it won't get the attention.

    If the Republican Party was smart, they would force Immigration reform in exchange for healthcare concession that allowed for healthcare coverage for all Americans. Now is the time to get that done IMO but, it can't be one sided. It has to be give and take.
  8. arglebargle

    arglebargle Well-Known Member

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    Dang, didn't get on early enough.

    I think this is a very smart idea, and something that might work out advantageously for both political factions, and more importantly, for America.

    On the original question, I have a lot of qualms. I've been to Mexico a lot and seen the conditions in some of the places there. No wonder some are willing to try their luck here. I've worked with illegals before, and many are good, hardworking folks who have the same quintessential American dream that countless others have shared. I also recall that the 'no exclusion' law for emergency rooms in Texas came about because some poor ******* was shuttled from emergency room to emergency room because he had no proof of insurance, until he died of something that could have easilly been dealt with.

    Aside from the scammers and the day labor guys, American companies hire these illegals, because they can pay them a lot less. There's a whole lot of looking the other way. Why not have those companies pay for the medical bills? Perhaps then they'd look to hiring local folks instead, at a decent salary.

    I'd be hard pressed to cut off emergency care from anyone, but on the other hand, I don't think we should be paying for their transplant surgery.
  9. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    Absolutely, why not? And the ones that do want to be Americans come here; have a baby on our dime, then, poof! They're citizens. That's wrong. We have to pay for not only the medical cost of delivering a baby, but we also take on the burden of providing the parents with citizenship as well as supporting most of these new "American" families on welfare for at least 18 years.
  10. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    Brilliant! Except for it will never happen because the Republicans don't want immigration reform. It would take away from cheap labor and that would hurt some of the big businesses that support them. Look at it from both sides, ABQ. This isn't a Liberal issue as much as it is a Conservative one.

    The public has to speak out on this, but they're too apathetic in general.
  11. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    Now you're addressing the crux of the problem. But I think the bigger issue is to enforce immigration laws and start rounding them up and deporting them. That in and of itself would create more jobs for Americans. We should not have to bear the cost of Mexico's living conditions. That's up to... Mexico.
  12. da_whiz_kid

    da_whiz_kid Active Member

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    I am a member of the Democratic party and I am liberal on a lot of issues, but I am not liberal on all. When it comes to immigration I am actually pretty conservative. I feel that we as citizens of this country should not have to pay for the health care of illegal immigrants. With that being said, as what was stated earlier, if an illegal was on the road and needed medical attention, they should not be left to die because they are not covered. Instead, they should be helped to survive. After that, I am all for deporting, or having them start the process for becoming a citizen. If they choose the citizen route they must do so in the time given to them, if not, they are deported no questions asked!

    But as someone said earlier, I cannot blame these people for coming to this country to work. The problem with illegal immigration are the employers who employ them because of the cheap labor they provide. It's plain wrong. People will tell you nobody else is going to do the job, but that is wrong! Who did the jobs before? Low income, hardworking Americans did them before, and they would still do them if they were getting compensated correctly for their labor, but employers want to rip them off. The people who should really be punished are those who are employing illegal immigrants. A lot of the social economic problems which persist today are due to the growth of illegal immigrants entering into this country and working illegally. I strongly believe this!

    I do understand why someone would include illegal immigrants in the health care bill. We as humans cannot help but be compassionate to others, it's in our hearts. With that being said, that is probably my main problem with the bill. I will definitely be doing more research elsewhere with the immigration issue in the bill, but as far as immigration goes, THAT IS MY ISSUE! I never post in here, I like to read, but I don't get into too much discussion due to the bias sources which BOTH sides use in here. It is quite annoying. LOL:laugh2:
  13. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    My case in point, I was just walking home from Mr. Gattis after having a lovely dinner buffet when a car full of illegals started cat calling at my fiance'. At that point I gave them "the bird" and started walking across the street when one of them threw a full beer bottle, which narrowly missed me.

    As a citizen of this country, I'm tired of the things that come with illegal immigrants; in this case being the criminal activity. I, as a law abiding citizen should not have to deal with an SUV full of illegals who can't control themselves because they never received a proper education from the country in which they illegally fled.

    Our country should take the initiative to deal with these people, once and for all. Had they followed me home, I would have introduced them to my trusty old .45

    Viva America.

    LOL
  14. jrumann59

    jrumann59 Well-Known Member

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    Not to be harsh, ok yeah I am. Liberals believe in darwinism, correct? Going on that premise shouldn't nature just take its course let the stronger, smarter, more adaptable survive? Or is it since liberals, I mean extreme liberals, sees that one person as untapped resource for more social programs that ultimately suck the life out of you eventually. Damn now that I think about it that one scene in The Matrix where they show all the people basicly being used as batteries is symbolic illustration of socialism.
  15. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    Put the beer down and get back with us in the morning.
  16. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    If the Canadian's think the illegals should get free healthcare let's ship them all to Canada for it.
  17. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    That's the best idea I've yet to read in this thread.
  18. poke

    poke the older I get the better I was

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    other than a couple of posters this has been a thought provoking thread.
    thanks ABQ for another of your efforts to bring this type of discourse to this Zone.
    not sure if i am a liberal or not due to my extreme disliking of all politicians,
    and blind followers of any group.
    i will state that i am not in favor of providing health care to illegals.
    emergency care is another story though.
  19. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this has been one of the more productive threads in the PZ.
  20. CliffnMesquite

    CliffnMesquite Well-Known Member

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    The only reason one party or the other would support free health care for illegal aliens would be because they think it would increase their standing in the Hispanic community and thus add to their vote totals. MY OWN PERSONAL feeling is that the far left wing of the democratic party does most of the pandering. But that's just because I'm an evil conservative who would let them all die in the desert. (slightly sarcastic)

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