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Question On Spot Challenges

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Hoofbite, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    So Triplette goes under the hood.........and before I finish I should probably disclose that for probably close to 5 seasons running now I've had Triplette pegged as one of the worst officials in the NFL. I'm gonna say the worst because I can only name a few others such as Hochuli, Carey, Winter, Booger (does he still do it?). These are the big time guys who get most of the national games so that's why I can name them. Jeff Triplette however has made some of the worst calls I have ever seen and his explanations are often times incoherent. He sounds like he's been pregaming at a frat house. You watch a Triplette game and you're gonna scratch your head trying to figure out why a calls was made or what the hell he is even trying to explain.

    Not to mention he's the guy who knocked that Browns' player's eye out with a penalty flag like 10 years ago.

    Seriously over the past 5 or so years if I see a Triplette game it's got some calls in it that just make me shake my head and laugh.

    They all make horrid calls. Wasn't it Hochuli who made the call on that ridiculous fumble of Cutler's when he was playing in Denver. I can't remember the exact circumstances but I think it was blown dead so the Charger recovery was nullified. They changed that rule didn't they? Anyway, at least Ed was able to explain why the outcome was the way it was.

    Anyone remember the fumble against the Packers where Felix dove on it? Here's Triplette's explanation.

    [youtube]v-wkbyFwM6M[/youtube]

    Whether or not they can review it is one thing.......the fact that he can't even explain why he was told it can't be reviewed in a manner that makes sense is completely another. Good call or bad, this guy goes on the mic and sounds like someone who just completed their first class in an English Second Language course. You don't know if he's actually made the right call or not because he can't tell you why it's right or wrong.

    And while I remember it, how does he stare straight at Cullen Jenkins while he is faking an injury and not even bat an eyelash? I mean this guy is writhing, holding his ankle and reaches for his shoe laces and then gets up and sprints at full unimpeded speed to the sidelines and not a single thing registers with Jeff. He could literally reach out and high five Cullen he was so close and he was staring right at it. How does it not click? Unable to even get up........full sprint seconds later in a situation where the offense is trying to hurry things up to prevent a challenge. I really NBC would have had the full version replay of it because the last part that was shown was horrid, I can't even imagine how staged the rest of it was.

    Long story short, Triplette is as inept as they come in my book which brings me to the topic of the thread.

    Now maybe I have the idea of the rule wrong, I'm not counting that out. Wouldn't be the first time and certainly won't be the last.

    But I was under the impression that a spot challenge on a potential change of possession play MUST result in a change in possession in order to be reversed.

    If it's 4th and 1 full yard and the offense isn't credited with a single bit of forward movement but challenges and it is determined that the offense did indeed gain yardage but not enough to retain possession, the call is upheld in spite of the ball being spotted incorrectly. Team is then charged a timeout because the result of their challenge was not a successfully converted 4th down attempt with possession retained.

    That is my understanding of the rule. If that is incorrect, you can just disregard the following section and I'll end with a simple, "Triplette still sucks". But if that is incorrect, was that a recent amendment to the rule or have I been under the wrong impression since they starting challenging spot rulings? If that's the case, I'm an idiot but.........."Triplette still sucks".

    Tonight, Dallas challenges the spot and the first words he says is, "After reviewing the play, the ruling on the field is reversed. We will move the ball forward just at the 38 yard line and remeasure". Hellacious initial spotting of the ball aside, what he says is that Dallas both gained the first down and that it will be remeasured.

    Now, perhaps this is just him slipping up because procedurally the process appears to have taken the correct sequence of events, almost. They re-spotted the ball, measured and then announced whether or not Dallas would be charged a timeout as you would expect to be done but IMO that kind of seems a little unlikely considering how it played out.

    As the sequence unfolds the chain crew begins to move to a fresh set of downs just as they were getting ready to remeasure. When you watch the sequence you can see one of the markers pass by Garrett to their new location as Al Michaels is bringing up the point that Triplette announced a reversal and then said the ball would be measured.

    So Triplette says "reversed" over the mic and then informs the rest of the crew of the reversal and these guys knowing exactly what that means in this particular situation move to a fresh set of downs, only to have Triplette walk over and call for a measurement from the spot they just left.

    It would be one thing if it was just the announcement. I mean, anyone can misspeak and say it's reversed even though Triplette should know and have enough experience by now with handling this situation that you cannot reverse the spot of the ball itself, you can only move the spot and that is what determines whether the reversal is in order.

    But this just wasn't the announcement. That's what he passed on to the other officials and the chain crew who acted on the reversal in the manner that would be appropriate for a reversal. So now we have moving chains on top of a moved spot and pardon me for not having a ton of confidence in a group of guys who can't collectively spot the ball correctly in first place and who are led by a guy who can't correctly relay the outcome of a challenge. Just doesn't make for a very awesome combo IMO. And the little clothespin marker or whatever it was they used to move the chains back to the previous spot of measurement, yeah that seems like a totally infallible device.

    Furthermore, this all came after they had just measured the distance on two consecutive plays with both having the ball come up just short on the midfield side of the 38 yard line. So he comes out and says the ball will be re-spotted on the endzone side of the 38 yard line or as he put it, "just at the 38 yard line" (which in itself doesn't seem correct because just at the 38 yard line was where Dallas was at prior to the play. Unless he's measuring from the butt of the ball instead of the nose, he should have said "just beyond".) In total, they moved the ball over a foot when both the 3rd and 4th down measurement were determined to be like an inch or two short.

    So what happens if his re-spot was determined to be short again or the high tech chain marking system or measuring official screws it up? He comes back out and says, "After remeasuring, the call is in fact NOT REVERSED, Dallas is charged a timeout and Philadelphia retains possession"?

    I dunno. The whole sequence kind of irked me. The obvious shorting of the initial spot, the ruling of reversal with re-spotting and moving of the chains just prior to the re-measurement. Just seemed like an awful lot of screwing up for something as simple as measuring for a first down. Perhaps he could tell from replay that Murray exceeded the line to gain but protocol dictates that a measurement must occur as some sort of attempt at transparency. I dunno, it just wasn't smoothly played out with so many moving pieces, I can definitely foresee a team getting shorted if these types of things occur in the future.

    Like I said I might have the rule wrong myself but from the way Michaels and Collinsworth responded to it, it seemed like I was on track.
  2. Nav22

    Nav22 Well-Known Member

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    Nice observations. I also thought he botched the rule for spot challenges at the time but wasn't totally sure.
  3. bracey

    bracey Active Member

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    He messed up, but this is pretty minor in the overall scheme of screwing calls up. I've always thought it was silly they made they go out of the field, respot it, and measure. Unless it's within an inch or so, you can tell on the video if it's a first down or not.
  4. dez_for_prez

    dez_for_prez Active Member

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    It makes no sense that the officials aren't allowed to see the yellow line when they are reviewing a play. It would make it a lot simple I think.
  5. rynochop

    rynochop Well-Known Member

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    Heck I was shocked they even reversed it. I thought they were pretty bad, I don't think the eagles had a holding call all night, when I saw several that should have been called.
  6. Gibby!

    Gibby! Pom Pom Waving Shill

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    Didn't they say they were going to start fining players / teams for this?
  7. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    The thing that bothers me most about the spot of the ball challenge is that it took like 10 minutes to get the next play off. The fake injury, the challenge, the re-spot, the measurement, clock starts, quarter ends, back to commercial break.
  8. Yeagermeister

    Yeagermeister Active Member

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    They screwed up three times in the span of two plays. First Murray got the first on 3rd down. Second he got it on 4th down. Third it should have been a penalty for faking an injury. Triplett seems to screw us every time.
  9. Rackat

    Rackat Active Member

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    Sitting in the stands, everyone around me was talking about the bad spotting by the officials. It may not have been as noticeable on tv, but there were several times when the play ended the refs moved the ball back at least a foot. And the lack of holding calls against Philly was getting a lot of attention from the fans as well.

    On a positive note, the fans were freaking loud. Best I've heard since the 90's.
  10. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    I was there against AZ two years ago when he did. I actually predicted it coming. The girl who was there with Wisconsin Cowboys fan was a Cardinals fan. After Triplett screwed it up after I predicted it she said, "I like Jeff Triplett." I admit, I had to laugh at that.
  11. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    Unless they changed the rule, I understood that upon review you can move the spot of the ball and say the ruling was overturned. It is independent of whether after re-spotting the ball if the play results in a first down or not.

    I agree, I thought Murray got the first down on the 3rd down run. It was a bad spot and then another poor spot on 4th down.
  12. blindzebra

    blindzebra Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget Witten having half his body in the endzone and it gets spotted at the half yardline and no booth challenge.
  13. DandyDon1722

    DandyDon1722 It's been a good 'un, ain't it?

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    Remember Triplett is the guy who should have got a Super Bowl ring from the Steelers after the Seattle debacle.

    I gotta say I do like Mike Carey a lot -- he just seems competent. Ron Winter, absolutely horrible.
  14. arglebargle

    arglebargle Well-Known Member

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    Good call on the Triplett incompetance. I've grown to loath him when he gets to call Cowboys games. For pretty much the reasons mentioned above.

    Sadly, there's no evidence or any sort of consequences for Ref incompetance other than the occasionally mentioned 'Don't get to do playoff games'.
  15. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    I think Mike Carey's crew throw more flags by a wide margin than all of the other crews do. I hate when they have our games. I prefer anyone to Triplett, but I hate when we get that crew.
  16. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the whole sequence took forever.

    Just a horrible mess.
  17. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    See, I could have sworn that the ball had to be moved enough to flip turnover on downs or create a turnover on downs.

    I just don't know how you move the ball, allow a team to retain their timeout and possibly get the bonus challenge if they were ruled short and then determined to be short but by a lesser degree after replay.

    In such a case the only way a team would lose that challenge is if there was no way to see where the spot occurred or the replay clearly shows that the initial spot was 100% accurate. Inches are difference makers so if you're 3 inches short and the ref rules that you should get 2 of those inches back.......what has changed?

    I guess what I am saying is, the ball could probably be moved on every single challenge to some small degree one way or the other if it came to it.

    If that's the case, the offense essentially risks nothing to challenge which is a crucial component to the challenge.
  18. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    I could have re-heated some leftovers in the micro, peed, and taken a phone call and not missed any action.
  19. blindzebra

    blindzebra Well-Known Member

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    The rule is you have to challenge a specific thing. So if you challenge a spot for the line of gain, they must move the ball to/past the line of gain for the call to be reversed.
  20. links18

    links18 Well-Known Member

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    That looked like a TD to me. I have noticed it all season. The Refs are screwing up spotting the ball left, right and center. They also gifted the Eagles a first down later in the game with a terribly favorable spot. Last week, it worked in our favor when they gave Witten a first down he shouldn't have gotten, but they never moved the sticks, resulting in the Romo dive play on what was a first down (which half the board thought was evidence Romo is a moron).

    The NFL is just too complicated for many of the senior citizens they have as refs to get it right. I have seen multiple times this season where FOX has brought in Perieria to get his opinion on a pending challenge, only to have the decision come back the exact opposite of what Perreria said was going to happen. The guy they have on ESPN (Jerry Austin) is actually pretty funny; he often says, "This is what I think should happen, but I don't know if THESE REFS are going to rule this way."

    The real refs are better than the replacement refs, but they still suck.......

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