Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Yuma Cactus, Jan 12, 2013.
I really can't believe it worked at all.
i was on board thinking the read option as being a fad, but after watching it all year and see the 49ers run it last night, this offense puts tremendous pressure on a defense, its also pretty safe hence RGIII had like 4 int's all year, it also can chew up alot of possesion time. (ball control)
Aaron Rodgers and the Pack were no match for it last night, this is playoff football, if its working to the tune of 181 yards rushing for a Qb, teams better start taking this serious. actually i find it very entertaining, the only thing is, how many Kaepernicks, RGIII's are out there?
It's because running backs are running and are taught to stay low and have their head on a swivel. That allows them to avoid contact or take it such that they do not get blasted.
Compare that with a QB who is standing in the pocket upright looking down field. When a defender lowers his should to make a hit, its right to the midsection.
Running backs also get hurt a lot more than QBs. QBs lifespan is much greater than RB because they get beat up so much. It's just when a starting QB gets hurt it's spammed all over the place.
Yeah that sounds about right to me. It's like wondering how a boxer can take a punch to the gut and not get winded. They are trained for it, and know how to absorb the contact. The RB's are the same way.
And the more I think about it, unless the rules change there is no downside to running this offense. You can barely touch the QB as it is or, it's a 15 yard penalty. You can't just teach your D to go in the backfield and hit everybody, because you would be walking a fine line for getting a roughing penalty if you don't time it perfectly.
This is the limiting factor.
I would say Kaepernick is just good enough (on average) as a passer to make it work. Last night he was playing well above what I had seen some previous games. He threw some balls that were right on point. Last night and the Bears games were absolutely great in terms of his play.
I think it will take some time but I think you'll see more develop. Getting a good passer is hard enough, finding one that can run makes it tougher. At the college level a speedy QB that can run likely won't even pass as much for that reason alone and an accurate passer likely won't run as much simply because he can pass.
It's probably gonna take college teams committing fast QBs to passing first and developing them into solid passers on a regular basis before enough of these guys show up. Problem is, no college coach will want to force a guy to pass if he can run all over someone. I wonder if this will open the door for some smaller school guys in that these guys can get the attention they need in the passing game to develop because a small school likely won't be playing strong enough competition to force the coach into utilizing the player in the manner that serves the team the absolute best right now.
Personally, if they are starting the fake and it's close I would just have my guys plow the QB no matter what. if it's not close pull up and zone it like you are supposed to but if it is close and the defender cannot tell then guess QB everytime and plow his butt.
I'll take a roughing the passer or two and offer to pay my players fines.
Really what the NFL needs to do is if it is a fake or option then the QB loses his protection.
Well I was talking about the running aspect. Like when a QB runs, why is it seen as some given that he will get hurt. If it's a matter of coaching and teaching the QB how to run, or even avoid the hits all together by going out of bounds or sliding, I don't see why a running QB must be destined to get hurt.
A roughing the passer or two got us beat in week 17. I'm not good for taking chances on giving teams 15 yards and a first down to stop an offense. That defeats the purpose of stopping the play in the first place.
They have to change the rules for that gameplan to work. As it stands right now, the QB gets hit without the ball, we're at the mercy of whatever crew is on the field.
you arent going to get a roughing the passer penalty on a option run, we got those penalties when he was standing back there throwing a pass.
You mean scrambles or designed runs or both?
Scrambles is basically the same thing with them looking downfield and trying to buy time. While they still have blockers who can help on peel back blocks and the like, they do not have the same designed blocking.
I am guessing if you were to look at designed plays, you would see about the same rate. They know where there blockers are and by following them know where the defenders are not going to be. If nothing else they have to go through or around blockers.
Compare that to how many naked bootlegs you've seen where the defender is not fooled and the QB gets nailed.
Aaron Rodgers was the prototype of the modern (up through 2011) NFL QB.
It almost felt like Colin Kaepernick is the prototype of the next half a decade of NFL QBs -- Very good passer who is also a very good runner.
We'll see -- if Seattle or San Fran doesn't win a Superbowl, then this theory is delayed or possibly just wrong.
Well it's just not the fines anymore. They're suspending repeat offenders now. Ed Reed was suspended (although he won his appeal) for a collection of hits that have spanned about 3 full seasons.
I'm not sure you're going to get many guys to sacrifice a pay check when the timeframe that the league is looking at to suspend people spans multiple seasons.
I think they should do away with the protection but then it seems like we're really adding more officiating judgement calls into the mix. Obviously you won't be able to smack the QB after the play is well out his hands so now we have a situation in which the referee must determine whether or not the hit occurred in a timeframe reasonable, just as they do with hits on the QB now. In that case, why even change anything at all because they've called everything from when the QB is throwing to 2 seconds later a penalty.
I saw a game where Cam Newton was hit as he was throwing and it was flagged. I'm not exaggerating one bit, he was hit as he was throwing. It might have been the Dallas game although I think I remember seeing the video on YouTube prior to that game this year.
Just runs. Anytime the QB has pulled the ball down and is no longer looking to pass, I guess.
I have no doubt that getting drilled from the blindside will likely hurt someone more than being a RB.
It just seems like people are assuming that all these QBs will be hurt while they are running.
I'm not really sure Aaron Rodgers would no longer be the prototype.
Smart accurate passer with good mobility will likely still win you a hell of a lot of games.
I think maybe the word "prototype" will have to be adjusted to include guys who aren't elite passers but good passers who also possess top speed. More than one way to skin a cat type of thing, I guess.
Going to be impossible to enforce. OC will just start designing plays that look like it was a pass option first and then cry foul when their guy gets plastered. It will all depend on how well the QB sells the pass option. I agree with your premise, though. If a QB is going to run like a running back then take a damned hit like a running back.
The Pistol is long overdue in the NFL, but its finally here and should only evolve from here on out. You don't even need a mobile QB to take advantage of its concepts. It combines the advantages for the QB that a shotgun formation has without sacrificing the downhill running game. You can become extremely multiple out of it; 1, 2, and 3 back sets where motions can take advantage and compromise a defense.
I vaguely remember that, also. I don't know the Panther's schedule, but some thing makes me want to say it was against Tennessee.
I think you'll start seeing pocket passers with speed, like Rodgers, Tannehill and Luck, start running the pistol somewhat.
It is fun to watch the read option. I am not a fan of college football at all but seeing this in NFL doesn't bother me.
Colin is good, RG3 is good, Wilson is good.
But evantually, defenses will catch up to this. I am sure teams will watch tons of video during offseason and get their players prepared for this.
In the end, teams with pure pocket passers will compete year in year out.
You'll start seeing them until they all start dropping like flies ala RGIII. The NFL is going to catch up to this type of offense. You can count on it. The thing that people forget about QBs is that they use their bodies differently than RBs, TEs, or WRs. Not only do they have to contend with the injuries that the aforementioned positions will have to contend with but they'll be subject to upper body injuries that affect them more than the other players because they have to actually throw the ball and throw it accurately. A running back can still do his job effectively with a sore and even partially separated shoulder. No can do for a QB where accuracy is key.
I agree with others that it's going to be a hot commodity until a couple of teams lose their starting QB for weeks or months at a time (Washington Redskins, anyone?). The fact that the Redskins are considering severely cutting back on that type of offense when they have the best guy in the league to run it tells me all I need to know.