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Red Bryant and Von Miller

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by CowboysLaw87, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. CowboysLaw87

    CowboysLaw87 Active Member

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    Alright, some questions for my fellows fans...

    It appears as though the 4-3 is on its way into town. Seattle and Denver run 2 of the best 4-3's around. They generate good pressure, cover like a blanket, fly around and hit. I wanted to focus on a couple cogs in their respective defenses, and see how they use them.

    1) Seattle DE Red Bryant. Is this their full-time DE on the strong side? He's got ZERO sacks this year, and only 2 in his career! At 6'4 323, he's exactly what I'd perceive as a 3-4 DE. What's up with this? Doesn't seem like we have anyone close to him on this roster (Brent would've been the closest). Also, is it right that Alan Branch plays next to him at DT? Another 325 pounder... looks like they load up with some serious beef on the strong side of that DL. We lack that type of size in a serious way.

    2) Denver OLB Von Miller. He's 3rd in the NFL in sacks... does he simply blitz every passing down? And when he comes, are they bringing 5? It would seem to me that their zones would be compromised in coverage if he was part of a 5-man pressure every play. Wonder if Carter could be used in this capacity... but then again, we'd lose his special sideline-to-sideline coverage skills.

    The Bryant thing baffles me the most. Where does Seattle generate their pressure from? I'm assuming he comes off the field on 3rd down (for Bruce Irvin, who has 8 sacks). Thanks guys. This will be interesting.
  2. supercowboy8

    supercowboy8 Well-Known Member

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    This is the type of defense need to switch to. Bryant job isn't to get sacks, its to stuff the run. Clemons job is to get pressure, band is to one gap penetrate up the middle amd branch plays like a NT and Bryant plays like a 3-4 DE.

    Von miller doesn't blitz every down but it is alot. The other two LBs pick up coverage like ILB in a 3-4
  3. dez_for_prez

    dez_for_prez Active Member

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    I thought Miller was an OLB in a 3-4. He plays a DE though in the Nickel and Dime packages though, which is over 50% of plays.

    About Bryant, isn't he a DT with Branch?

    Edit. Bryant is a DE.
  4. dez_for_prez

    dez_for_prez Active Member

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  5. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    Denver uses Garret Wolfe who was a draft favorite around here as their "Red Bryant" to play te side defensive end. Wolf and Miller are substantially bigger than Crawford. Denver blitzes Miller quite a bit but they really play a ton of nickle because their offense occasionally scores in the first half and Miller is a wide defensive end in most of their nickle sets. They also get Dumerville and Miller on the same side and stunt or loop them. It is a real problem to deal with. Their actual defensive tackle are probably poorer than ours.

    Mainly they play with leads which leads to big play defense. We don't do that around here. We are always closing and ending up with steak knives.

    Miller's pass rush metrics (sacks and pressures per attempt) are off of the charts. He got 16 sacks with 200 less rushes than most but of course 3rd down passing is different than 1st and second down passing so he gets alot of the "good downs" when he knows a pass is coming.
  6. supercowboy8

    supercowboy8 Well-Known Member

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    No bryant is a DE and denver runs a 4-3 and miller plays on the strong side
  7. CowboysLaw87

    CowboysLaw87 Active Member

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    Makes sense. I suspected as much on both counts, but thanks for helping. Lee and Carter can obviously operate in any defense, and can cover a lot of space underneath the DB's if we were to bring extra pressure. Problem is, I don't see another guy on the team that would be that Von Miller/Michael Boley type blitzer as a 4-3 OLB. Completely possible Carter is that guy, but then we're hurting in coverage.

    But the DL is where we're hilariously undermanned. Ware on the weakside at DE and Ratliff as the 3-tech penetrating DT, but if Crawford-Hatcher is what we're throwing out there to fill out the front-4, we're in trouble. We need size/talent/youth across the front. And assuming Spencer leaves, who the heck is bringing the heat if Ware's injury heals slowly or he suffers more injury during the season? We don't have a Bruce Irvin to bring off the bench.
  8. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the plan is not to try to make Carter our poor man's Vonn Miller. The guy has alot of the same physical attributes.
  9. supercowboy8

    supercowboy8 Well-Known Member

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    Both run like a modified 3-4. They just shift a 3-4 DL over and put the OLB on the line In the dirt with the SOLB playing the same position. Spencer could do that with no problem
  10. CowboysLaw87

    CowboysLaw87 Active Member

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    This is a good thought. Carter seems 100% capable of playing that "sometimes blitzing, sometimes dropping" role.

    SOLB- Carter
    MLB- Lee
    WOLB- Sims

    Looks like that could work, and be a unit we could win with.

    Derek Wolfe is 6'5 300, Red Bryant is 6'4 323... If the plan is to go to that style defensive front, with basically a 3-4 type front on the strong side (5-tech, NT) and a 4-3 front on the weak side (3-tech, 7 tech), then maybe Hatcher (6'5 305) is our guy for the other DE. Then on 3rd down we can move him inside in favor of a more explosive rusher from that end (draft?).
  11. DBOY3141

    DBOY3141 Well-Known Member

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    If Kiffen comes here, then I'm sure he has looked at all the current players we have and knows if his system will work.

    He is not going to come here knowing the current players have no chance in heck of playing in his system. Remember he has other teams talking to him about being their DC.

    He will take the job where he has the greatest chance of being successful, for pride, not a future HC job.
  12. supercowboy8

    supercowboy8 Well-Known Member

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    But money always talks the loudest and if he fails why would he care, most likely his last job amd can take the big pay day and retire
  13. Stryker44

    Stryker44 Active Member

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    Von Miller sounds like he should be German...what gives?
  14. DBOY3141

    DBOY3141 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure he's made more than enough money to retire by now. It's his passion and he wants to succeed, those two are greater than a paycheck...regardless of how big.

    Money doesn't drive everyone.
  15. Stryker44

    Stryker44 Active Member

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    Still surprised he would abandon his son before winning a national championship with him.
  16. cowboyschmps3

    cowboyschmps3 Well-Known Member

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    Seattle would generate pressure having Irvin and Clemons at the ends, then they have Wagner and Wright that also come from the inside
  17. cowboyschmps3

    cowboyschmps3 Well-Known Member

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    We draft him or sign him in FAgency
  18. CowboysLaw87

    CowboysLaw87 Active Member

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    OK so a pair of bookend speed rushers and some LB's that can bring heat on blitzes. Carter/Lee are capable of that. Looks like we can either re-sign Spencer or bring in a rusher via the draft, and may have a shot.

    Interesting that Seattle and Denver handle two similar guys differently... Von Miller full-time starting SOLB, who they blitz. Seattle uses Irvin at DE in pass rush situations. My guess is we'd be looking to add to the DL as opposed to drafting a high-end OLB.
  19. bsheeern

    bsheeern Well-Known Member

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    I spoke with Von last year at the Super Bowl just after his rookie season ended. We chatted for about 15-20 minutes. He was born in Dallas and went to DeSoto High School and eventually went on to Texas A&M.

    I told him without a major trade up I knew he wouldn't fall to The Cowboys in the draft but I had really hoped somehow, someway we could have acquired him. His exact words to me were "Oh I'm a Cowboy Fan".

    Now he didn't say "I grew up a cowboy fan". So I asked him how much he followed the team now that he was a player in the league. Again his exact words, "A Lot. I love My Cowboys". He gave me that serious look and I could sense his passion for The Cowboys in his voice.

    So I asked him once his rookie contract was up, How much would him being a diehard fan of the Cowboys play into his decision to maybe come Home and play For the :star:. He Told me that it's always been his biggest dream. Not just to play in the NFL but to Play for the Cowboys. He is as down to earth as they come.

    One thing I came away from our conversations is that he's a die hard fan of Dallas and it's definitely a goal of his to play Dallas.

    Now I know this was just one conversation and a lot can change in 4 years, but Von is a determined dude. Not very big either and you can tell he's a guy who loves football.
    :pray:he comes here one day. I really became a fan of Von that day and I can count on 1 hand the players outside of Dallas I can say that about. I've been a fan for 30+ years.
  20. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    He was asked to leave.

    Lane would have lost his job if Monte didn't step down or so the rumors go.
    USC was terrible on defense and got beat buy cross-town rival UCLA.

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