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RG3 suffers knee injury late in game

Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by bula, Dec 9, 2012.

  1. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    Is Luck being asked to do more OR is he forcing the issue, Rex Grossman style? Nobody is able to prove at all that Andrew Luck is "being asked to do more" since nobody on this board knows what him and Arians are talking about nor are they at Colts or Redskins practice during the week.

    Again, Tom Brady rarely throws deep. He is content to use the spread "college" passing offense to pick up quick 7-10 yard gains all the way up the field.

    Andrew Luck came from an offense at Stanford where he had WIDE OPEN TE's streaking down the field because of the dominant run game he was afforded. We shouldn't be surprised he is forcing things deep like Grossman would because in college he had nothing but wide open guys deep off play action fakes.

    Without the run game that he had at Stanford DBs aren't cheating up and he doesn't have the wide open deep passes he was used to with Jim Harbaugh.

    This game makes me sick below because I was at the Orange Bowl but you'll notice in the first half he struggles badly (look at 1:46 IN where he makes a horrible decision to try and throw the ball while being taken down in the endzone and at 2:46 where he throws it straight to a wide open Jayron Hosley and again at 3:35 which was the turning point in the game, Hosley dropping what would have been a pick 6) but in the 2nd half, when the Stanford run game starts dominating and Virginia Tech is cheating up its safeties (in that 2nd half our safeties were 7 yards off the LOS) Luck throws wide open TD's.

    Luck leading the NFL in interceptions is no surprise to me now and shows that RG3 is simply making far better decisions and is at this point a far superior passer and will continue to develop that way

    Here is the clip I have mentioned

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq3Ol2jtGnk
  2. Sonny#9

    Sonny#9 Well-Known Member

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    Or keep comparing Griffin to athletic black QBs that could never pass. Has Vince Young, Cam Newton (who is playing very well right now), or Mike Vick ever been as accurate or as efficient as Griffin has so far this year?
  3. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    My favorite one was Akili Smith 2.0 :lmao2:
  4. Sonny#9

    Sonny#9 Well-Known Member

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    That was good, but the one that said Griffin was the "same size as Vick"
  5. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    That is laughable also.

    I stood next to Michael Vick back in college. He was an inch shorter then I am.

    I saw Griff at draft day. Much bigger then I am.

    Vick was a very thick well built athlete but had a 5'11 frame at best. Grff is every inch of 6'2
  6. 1fisher

    1fisher Active Member

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    This thread is cracking me up! :laugh2:
  7. AmericasTeam31

    AmericasTeam31 Active Member

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    Except Brady throws 38 short passes per game... Not 27.... Oh, and he throws for about 35 TD's per year too... Horrible comparison....

    Hmm... sounds strangely like an observation that was made on this board about RG. #1 rushing offense, wide open receivers and TE's everywhere, because of the dominant running game he was afforded and play action fakes.... Pretty much exactly what I said, and I also stated that I'm interested to see what happens when the safeties and LB's aren't pulled out of position by the running threat. So thanks for adding even more validity to that for me.

    As for "reading and understanding the defense" I honestly haven't seen much of that. Granted, full disclosure, I haven't watched every snap, but it seems to me that there are a lot of one read pass plays in the offense.

    What's with all the Grossman comparisons? No one here compares any player to Grossman except Skins fans.... Do we run around comparing every quarterback to Kitna or Quincy? He was your QB, he sucked, move on...
  8. NIBGoldenchild

    NIBGoldenchild Active Member

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    Aside from a screen play, there are no one read plays in the offense. You have no clue what you're talking about. Every pass play has a minimum of two passing options and often, three. But for those who somehow can't seem to count 3 WRs lined up and running routes on the field, the high percentage of the first option being open has somehow convinced them it was the only option. :rolleyes:
  9. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    I think the pictures explain it all. Your welcome.
  10. SkinsFan28

    SkinsFan28 Active Member

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    Your picture certainly does show that the offense has 3 WR's out, and that Griffin had to read what the strong safety was going to do. There was a check down, a mid level read and a deep read. As NIB said, just because the first option is open, doesn't mean a read isn't made, only that the correct one was.

    I could agree with you all, if Griffin's numbers were less historic. But the fact is there is no amazing solution in this process, and every style of offense, and qb talent has been on the field over the course of the past 60 years. As has been pointed out many times, the option through several iterations has come and gone in the NFL.
    For example, Cam Newton, had 21 td passes, 17 int's and a passer rating of 84 in a similar style offense - Carolina had 2400 total yards rushing(the Skins are at 2185 currently).
    Ben Roethlisberger had a 98.1 passer rating his rookie year(the best in NFL history), Griffin currently is at 104.2.
    Matt Ryan had an 87.7 passer rating his rookie year.
    Only Marino has a better TD/Int ratio as a rookie.

    No one can predict the future, but to say that what Griffin has done this season was purely schematic, or because he wasn't asked to do it differently is a ridiculous statement in light of the numbers he has posted.
  11. Sonny#9

    Sonny#9 Well-Known Member

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    What, that the Eagles are terrible? Or Kyle Shanahan has designed a great offense? Or Robert Griffin is having a great rookie year? What was your point with that?
  12. Sonny#9

    Sonny#9 Well-Known Member

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    Really? Brady is a sure fire hall-of-famer, 3-time Super Bowl Champion, who does not throw deep very often. Griffin is a rookie who throws deep slightly more. The knock on Griffin on here is that can't win b/c he throws short too much and defenses will "get tape and figure it out." How is that not a good comparison?

    Fine, Griffin has more talent around him. He hasn't been asked to do as much as Luck. He also hasn't made any of the horrible decisions with the ball that Luck has. Most of Luck's int's have been terrible decisions. You're spinning around in circles trying so desperately to discredit what the Redskins and Griffin are doing.

    Both Kurt Warner and Trent Dilfer disagree. Both have given credit to Griffin for making his reads and going through his progressions. I'll take their analysis over yours anyday.

    He was a turnover machine that we are familiar with. It's an accurate comparison if you stop trying to desperately discredit Griffin and actually read what SHF posted.
  13. NIBGoldenchild

    NIBGoldenchild Active Member

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    Just wanted to add Griffin is tied with Marino for the TD/INT ratio at +14.
  14. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    Its easier just to keep posting this. We have been having the same debate ever since RG3 torched the Cowboys secondary on Thanksgiving.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/stor...-robert-griffin-iii-become-more-aaron-rodgers

  15. AmericasTeam31

    AmericasTeam31 Active Member

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    Really? I never said anything about the amount of short passes that RG threw. Personally I think it's an irrelevant thought. It doesn't matter where you throw the ball, short or long. But what I don't agree with is comparing a rookie, read option, "running QB" to one of the best pocket passing QB's of all time who has proven what he can do year in and year out. Not just in his rookie season. I'm not at all trying to say that RG isn't capable of getting there, but hold off on comparing your rookie to Brady right now...

    First, I have not tried to discredit anything. I'm simply stating my opinion on the subject. In fact, I've given both RG and Kyle credit for the system and play calling.

    Second, how am I spinning in circles when one of you Skins fans pretty much said the same thing I said about Luck's college career? I posted that RG has the strength of a strong running game and wide open WR's going for him. You ignored that idea, and then used the exact same thought as a knock, or strike against Luck.

    Finally, Griffin has not made the horrible passing decisions that Luck has, you're spot on there. But let's just ignore the idea that he DOES lead the league in fumbles, but we'll sweep that one under the rug.

    You should! I gave full disclosure that I haven't watched every snap, added to the fact that I am a COWBOYS fan, so I have no desire to watch every snap. Go read back and look for my description of the conversation I had with my brother in law about Griffin. I gave him plenty of credit for what he's doing, stating that our (Dallas') only thread of hope that Griffin doesn't pan out is if he can't function without a solid running game. Otherwise, we'll have issues for many years.

    IN which season did Grossman lead any 2-14 to the playoffs the following season?
  16. AmericasTeam31

    AmericasTeam31 Active Member

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    I see two guys past the line of scrimmage with one guy sitting about 2 yards behind the line. I'm sure this isn't the case on EVERY play, but I'm also sure that it's the case more often than you would like to think.

    Listen, no one is trying to say that his numbers aren't "historic". All we are saying is pump your brakes... You know we all love nothing more than watching as skins fans get their hopes up for the next big thing year after year only to have them destroyed. We get it. There's finally a glimmer of hope after years of bottom feeding. But we are Dallas fans here. We don't like the Redskins, nor do we want to see them succeed if we can help it. So why would we want to sit here and listen to someone try to tell us how great he is when he's not even done with his rookie season? What credit has Romo been given for anything he's accomplished? "He can't win the big game" "He's a choke artist" "Turnover Tony" blah blah blah.... And he's been pretty damn good for years, but we're all supposed to bow down to RG after 13 games? Why? Because the media has crowned him?
  17. SkinsFan28

    SkinsFan28 Active Member

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    Actually, you do see the 3 LB's cheat up because the run has been pretty dominant. I get that. I also get that Cam probably got the same benefits last year (both running games churned out about the same stats) and his passing numbers are dwarfed by Griffin's numbers.

    I wouldn't expect a Cowboys fan to bow down to Griffin (yet;)), because it's his first year. What is frustrating is the often time ignorant(not saying you) dismissal of Griffin's numbers with obvious talking points, or the lauding of Luck when his numbers are demonstrably average as rookies go and against far less credible defenses, in my opinion. I will say, if Luck and the Colts blast Houston in one or both of these upcoming games, I will give him more credit then I do now. I just don't expect that. Also, I do think Luck next year will progress likely along a Peyton Manning trajectory, but I don't see any reason to think Griffin would not.
  18. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    I don't see Luck doing that. He has been very disappointing to me, especially with regards to his decision making.

    And I was one advocating tanking the 2011 season to ensure we get the number 1 overall pick to get Luck.

    Arians scheme, similar to Garret's, is outdated and relies on a philosophy of a past era.

    The future of the NFL passing game will be what Brady does, the spread offense with Chip Kelly Oregon concepts.

    And more from that article

    Essentially we see what direction NFL offenses are heading in, in particular when Tom Brady is running a "college offense"

    RG3 is running, apparently, a "college offense"

    Andrew Luck is running an outdated offense which forces him to force the ball downfield and commit turnovers. His growth in the new NFL is being stunted.
  19. SkinsFan28

    SkinsFan28 Active Member

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    P. Manning's stats from his rookie year followed by Luck's, they are very similar, and I doubt that the standard offensive style is going to suddenly disappear:

    gms, cmp, att, % yds avg, TD,lng,INT,FUM, Rating
    PM16, 326, 575, 56.7, 3739, 6.50, 26, 78, 28, 3, 71.2
    AL13, 295, 537, 54.9, 3792, 7.06, 18, 60, 18, 9, 74.5

    Luck in my opinion has been exactly what you would expect, but Griffin's numbers have been phenomenal.
  20. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    The numbers are certainly very similar but we are talking 2 completely different eras, teams, coaches, players, rules.

    Luck will continue to put up incredible yardage numbers, probably throw 30 some TDs, but also throw 20+ INTs with what that offense wants him to do.

    That scheme is quickly becoming outdated. If the Colts adapt to the modern NFL, Luck will thrive. But having him play in an outdated scheme isn't doing him much good development wise.

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