Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by Cowboy Brian, Dec 22, 2011.
Who is the better prospect, and why?
Everytime I have watched Luck play he seems to stare down his receivers. And most of his completions seem to be very high-percentage.
With the huge hype around him, I think he is very over rated.
So why the hype?
I think Luck is a good guy. Personable, likable. He looks the part of the big time QB. The media wants to latch on to someone like that to create more interest in their product.
His dad was an atrocious, forgettable, NFL QB.
The media seems to imply something positive with the son due to his father playing in the NFL while ignoring how bad he was.
I think Luck is more likely to be the next Ryan Leaf than RGIII is.
Remember, Ryan Leaf was a "can't miss NFL prospect" too, at one time. And teams kept taking chances on him because of his "measurables". He looked the part.
Unbelievable how someone can be so off-the-mark.
Ryan Leaf was also caught trying to rob Hydrocodone. Todd Marinovich was addicted to every drug possible. Jamarcus Russell got arrested with a giant bottle of lean.
3 big time busts.... one problem.
You can look up pretty much any bust story.... lots of them are linked to drugs. Not all, but many.
I think that as usual the #1 QB is over hyped. HOWEVER to compare Luck to the tin heads like Leaf....
No kidding. There is a possibility that Luck won't live up to the hype, but it won't be for the same reasons that Leaf didn't succeed.
Leaf came out of nowhere. I don't remember hearing about him as a bona fide top of the draft prospect until halfway through his last year in college. Unlike Peyton Manning who was scrutinized every year on college. I think being under that type of pressure is helpful to both the player and the people scouting them. It really shines more light on how that player is going to be. If Leaf had gone through that during his entire college career, I think more people would have known what a d-bag he was. Instead they didn't find out until he was in the pros.
In my opinion, Luck is more in line with Manning. He has been hyped, maybe over-hyped for a couple of years now. He has had to deal with pressure and showed to handle it pretty well.
As far as just physical abilities, Luck has more to offer than Leaf. Leaf and JaMarcus Russell, too were both big guys with strong arms, but neither had good feet. Luck is very light on his feet.
I like RGIII a lot. I do think he is behind Luck in terms of development. Luck is more ready made at this point whereas RGIII is better suited to sit and watch for a few years. I think both have good potentials. There is really nothing much not to like with either guy because of all the positives they bring.
I like both guys. Frankly I would not be shocked to see RGIII have better success early on given his athletic ability. Most rookie QB will have a lot thrown at them by the defense and RGIII ability to get out of the pocket and run vs a heavy blitz will be a big advantage to him
In the long run I think Luck will have the better career but being more of the pocket passer facing big rushes I would expect him to struggle early on.
Luck is the better prospect, but I'm a huge RGIII fan. Sucks that he'll end up a Redskin more than likely, but I would so love for him to sit a few years behind Romo and be our guy of the future.
Luck is fantastic and has the higher floor and is a much safer pick.
A creative coaching staff could do some aamzing things with RG3 though, considering his athletic ability and his deep ball touch.
Look what the Panthers did with Newton. They added a read option element to their offense and will really turn Newton into something special.
Imagine a team that runs a ZBS and needs its QB to bootleg adding a read option element to it.
Pretty much how I feel.
I especially agree with the point that RGIII is going to take some time to really develop, although I don't know if he'll be afforded that if he goes early. He is a raw QB prospect with so much that needs to be refined: footwork, dropback, taking snaps under center, reading coverages and finding his receivers who will be running more complex/deeper routes, et cetera.
I'm in the minority, and I like RGIII too, but I don't see him as this bonified sure-bet franchise QB.
absolutely agree realtick.
I havent seen a qb have such professinal reads, all across the field at multiple depths as i have seen Luck make. He can have as many as 3/4 reads and then a check down.
RGIII has one or two reads and then takes off.
Andrew Luck WILL be a star qb in this league.
RGIII will be a good qb in this league.
No D-1 college offense has "1 or 2" reads.
Most top Texas High Schools do not run on a "1 or 2" read offense.
Really, all this does is give Luck the upperhand going into training camp 2012. After that, its all coaching and development from that point forward.
Luck is an a very ideal situation (and after seeing him play live I am sold on him)
He has the best o-line in the country by far, with 2 first round picks on it, and probably another future first round pick. Its size and ability actually rivals NFL o-lines.
He has incredible talent at TE, which is impossible to cover in CFB considering the talent level on defense.
So Luck is able to drop back, sit in a comfortable pocket, scan the field and hit his man. And it helps that his run game is outstanding.
This is not to detract from Luck at all, this is to simply demonstrate the advantages he has over RG3 in regards to the team around each of them.
RG3 has demonstrated this year an excellent deep ball, quick release and progression through his reads. His running ability is simply bonus.
I think a team will do just fine with either of them. The draft day question really is Luck>RG3+the picks you save
One aspect of Luck that a lot of folks don't realize is that he's running the offense. They've given him that liberty to do so. Not to mention the fact they run a pro-style offense. Very few college QBs are given that responsibility.
Agree. He is calling plays on the line.
Again though, this advantage Luck has essentially goes away once the first traning camp is done.
Luck will be learning an entirely new offense (unless he goes to SF)
As will RG3.
Its coaching and development at that point.
SkinsHokieFans, you gave a pretty good breakdown in your last post regarding Luck. In terms of RGIII, there are some things I definitely disagree about. I've watched/recorded about 4-5 games of RGIII this season, and he indeed has a simplified spread that involves a lot of "1-read" predetermined passes.
In one game I counted roughly 22 passes (I only started counting after his first two series) that didn't go more than 5-yards past the LOS. So much so that the broadcaster said half-jokingly that they should pass a rule that would limit the amount of bubble screens a team could run.
RGIII is not dropping back in the pocket and going through progressions. Baylor's passing attack is generally short/long. When Griffin does take a deep drop it's more often than not to go deep.
Beyond that, his footwork is herky-jerky and he needs experience from under center.
That's not saying he can not make the transition and develop, but it is saying there will be a learning curve that many prolific college QBs never were able to grasp.
Here is the question though from a draft perspective.
Can you coach that into RG3, footwork and progression work in an acceptable time period?
Clearly the physical skills are there for an elite QB (arm strength, accuracy, quick release)
Do you feel he is unable to be coached up in regards to improved footwork, progressions and reading a defense?
I don't think it's that easy. You're talking about a guy in Luck that's already demonstrated he can do it proficiently in a pro-style offense.
RGIII, while intelligent, has never been given that responsibility nor does he have experience to draw upon, and the scheme he did play in college was gimmicky spread.
So it's not as if they are both starting off on level playing ground.
It's like saying two people need to learn a new Microsoft OS. One guy has been using Windows 7 for a few years, and the other guy has only been using a TI-83 calculator.
It's true, neither have used the new OS, and will have to learn some things but who would have the advantag in this case?
I look at it differently. One is as pretty close to being a known quantity as there is, while the other is a mystery at this point.
I definitely believe technique can be taught and coached up. RGIII has all the requisite tools to succeed, but I think there will be a steep learning curve for him. I always look at things as if I'm wagering. While I would bet money on RGIII finding success at some point in the NFL, I wouldn't describe it as a "sure bet."
I would say Cam Newton was a more polished (relatively speaking) pro QB prospect than RGIII is coming out.
Depends, is the guy using the TI using it because he doesn't need a computer to run the same calculations? :laugh2: The guy using the TI could be a borderline genius!
As always, context is the key. We heard all the same things about Cam, and i don't know that they added all this read stuff for him, when I've seen him he's been taking real drops and making reads then running if it was there, maybe he meant Tebow, but coming out people said Gabbert would be better even though he ran a spread as well. Completely ignoring just how productive Cam had been at every opportunity.