Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by supercowboy8, Dec 17, 2012.
Funny how there were a great deal of people suggesting Romo had lost a step and wondered what he would get on the open market.
And that was just this season.
"clutch this year" is completely incorrect because he's been clutch for wayyy longer.
First off, I'm not an apologist.
And just because all anyone remembers from the Seahawks playoff game is that he bobbled the hold is irrelevant, I couldn't care less what people remember or not. The FACT of the matter is, the QB (Tony Romo, you heard of him?) drove his team down, in a hostile environment despite not having played his best football. Say what you want friend, but he carried them. The bobble was a fluke, his "fault" but a fluke none the less.
And I don't completely agree with the notion that a QB has to carry his team in the playoffs, Trent Dilfer says hello.
Romo was apart of that Vikings loss, but there were much bigger culprits to that loss then him. Doesn't matter who QB'd that team, the Cowboys were outclassed, from the coach on down to the special teams. If Romo didn't turnover the ball once, they probably still get beat by two touchdowns.
The only way that Romo ever shakes this "choker" label is if he has some playoff success, we all get this. But the fact of the matter is, he isn't a choker. Just based off a QB play (not team accolades and success) he's one of the better QB's in the league.
I can tell you do your research, that's good, but if you don't think Romo is capable of leading a team to the promise land, then I advise you to keep researching bud. :laugh2:
Your posts say otherwise.
The fact is Romo drove the Cowboys from their own 28 to the Seattle 2 yard line with the help of a running game. The Cowboys had 8 plays on that drive that you claim Romo carried the team on and 4 of those plays were running plays which included a 35 yard run by Julius Jones who had 112 yards rushing that day. When it's said that a QB "carried" their team the game ends with a win not a botched routine hold for a FG attempt that results in a bobble and a loss. The bobble was an ill-timed mistake and unfortunately Romo has been plagued by ill-timed mistakes throughout his career.
I never said a QB has to carry their team in the playoffs I said "at some point" they do. To win a championship a team has to win at least 2 playoff games and the SB. At some point during at least one of those games it's all going to be on the shoulders of a QB to have to make a play for their team to win. The Giants have won 2 SB's the past 5 years because Eli was able to make plays when it all came down to him. This is why QB's are so coveted it almost always comes down to them having to make plays in playoff games and championships. As for Trent Dilfer that was 12 years ago when he drove a bus to a championship. It's only happened 2 others times in SB history with Jim McMahon with the 85 Bears and Brad Johnson. All 3 were carried by a running game and great defenses.
Dilfer led the Ravens to a championship due to a running game and a great defensive performance by one of the greatest defensive teams in NFL history. Dilfer only passed for 153 yards in the SB completing less than 49% of his passes. That game was won by a 102 yard rushing performance by Jamal Lewis and a Ravens defense that only gave up 152 total yards to the Giants. You won't see a team in this day and age win a SB with a QB guiding a bus like Dilfer and those other 2 average QB's did. It's too much of a passing league now dominated by prolific QB's. The player safety rules have made it more difficult for defenses to make plays without being penalized for illegal hits. The 85 Bears defense would have been penalized all the time under the player safety rules of today. Dilfer was so average the Ravens released him after that SB.
Well at least you're admitting Romo was part of that loss it must have been painful for you to have to admit it. Had Romo not turned the ball over 3 times sure the Cowboys may have only loss by 2 TD's instead of by more than 4 TD's. A couple of TD's down would have left them within at least sniffing distance and a chance.
I didn't call Romo a "choker" so let's get that straight. Romo is clearly one of the better QB's in the league I've told that to many of his true haters who want him gone but for him to get the kind of respect some FANS here think he deserves he's going to have to have playoff success. He's going to have to perform in playoff games like he does during his best regular season performances. His Houdini moves escaping the rush need to end with him making great plays during the playoffs not strip sacks. He needs to be "clutch" when the Cowboys season is down to do or die.
As well as he's played the last few weeks his reputation for not being able to get it done when it really matters will continue if he folds in either of the next 2 games. If it comes down to Washington and Dallas for the NFC East title in 2 weeks and Romo turns the ball over a couple of times like he did against Washington on Thanksgiving while RG3 lights the Cowboys secondary up again leading the skins to victory Romo will continue being criticized for not coming through when it's all on the line. To shake his reputation he has to perform at his best in do or die/playoff game situations.
Research of his history that includes a 1-3 playoff record and the same number of turnovers as TD's says he hasn't been capable of leading the team to the promise land not even close. He has the physical skills to get it done we see that every year during the regular season but he has yet to show he has the leadership or the decision making skills it takes. He doesn't lack anything physically to get it done it's what's between his ears that concerns me. I advise you to do some research so I don't have to continue giving you a history lesson. :toast:
Romo's sample size for playoff performance is so tiny, it's awfully hard to use it as much of a guide. And as for the 1-3 TEAM record. Well, we all know that an inch here or there and that record is 3-1.
After 4 playoff games,
Peyton Manning was 1-3 too...with maybe worse stats. Then he was 1-4.
Brady has lost 2-4 in his last 6 games .
Eli was 2-2 after 4 games. So that was better
Elway was 2-2 as well.
4 is too small a sample size is the point.
If I was only rooting for Romo and not the team in general, I'd almost hope thy din't make the playoffs. They could possibly be way overmatched...and then you get Romo at 1-4. lol Not a great reward for putting the team on you back just to make it to the playoffs.
Seeing that I'm a Cowboy fan first, I want them to win very game possible and let the chips fall where they may.
Romo has been the QB for about 7 years now. And he's only been on 3 playoff teams. It is a small sample size.
You're unbelievable. Just because a player is charged with a turnover doesn't mean it's their fault. I like how you twist everything to fit your argument. Romo quarterbacks the team down to the two but it wasn't the QB who led the drive because the RB gained yards on it. Romo bobbled the snap so that makes him a bad QUARTERBACK.
Felix Jones had a 73 yard touchdown run to put the cowboys up by 3 touchdown but Romo didn't do much in the game, it was pretty much all the running game, nothing to do with Romo.
Romo was running for his life and got destroyed against Minnesota but he lost 2 fumbles and he shouldn't have lost those fumbles. Because other QBs would've held onto the ball, and Romo missed the blocks and got himself strip sacked. And all of Romos INTs were all on him, never a bad WR route, or tipped pass, just poor reads and inaccurate throws by Romo. (Not saying that these aren't his fault, some of them are, but lets not also make it out like he's to blame for every INT or fumble, evidenced by the pick 6 against Chicago)
Give it a rest dude.
I never once said Romo was the best, or he was never at fault. My posts say otherwise because it seems like you might have reading comprehension issues.
At the end of the day ALL QB's NEED to get lucky to win a Super Bowl, there is no way around it. Just look at Eli Mannings first Super Bowl with the David Tyree catch. Or his 2nd Super Bowl when Kyle Williams muffed 2 punts in the NFCCG.
Romo hasn't been perfect by any means. But he's also been very unlucky. And that was the original point. If you can't see that, that keep doing your research, you'll figure it out eventually.
And maybe people seem like Romo apologists because they have to defend the guy from A LOT of unjust criticism from his own ******** fanbase, just sayin.
While we're at it, lets just blame the loss against the Giants on him as well, he wasn't playing with damaged throwing hand or anything.
For all the negatives about Tony Romo, he's 5 x positive. Example? Down against the Bears, the Cowboys weren't able to muster any sort of offense against a very stout defense. The oline wasn't giving Romo any time, or giving the backs any holes to run through, they got one dimensional very quick. There was a play where he scrambled and started to run up field, got hit, ball squirted up and got "picked off" but it was really a fumble, just never hit the ground. That was on Romo, ball was unprotected and he cost us the possession. I can recall at least 5 times where he's done that and it's result in a 1st down or better.
Regardless of the past, tony is a different qb with murruy at rb. The pressure is noticably off his shoulders. The play actions actually are believable and the entire offense runs better. Being thay Murruy is looking to be close to 100% that is good news for the boys and Tony. It gives me hope. The question in my mond is can our defense make enough plays for us to win. We are decimated up the middle but our young guys are stepping up so far. The good news is our offense is scoring at will. Normally if they are stopped is when we stop ourselves.
The Realist thinks he sucks...and they are realists! :laugh2:
Romo has to take some of the blame for not having a larger playoff sample. Had his game not come apart in Dec of 08 in which he suffered 8 turnovers the Cowboys would have made the playoffs that season increasing his sample. All the team had to do was go 2-2 in Dec to make the playoffs that season but they ended up going 1-3 with his turnovers being a big reason. Before someone with an agenda claims I'm hating on Romo this discussion has to do with his play from "06 to 2010." If someone has issues with my comments concerning his play from those years bring your facts and we'll discuss it. I've had very little complaints about his play the last 2 seasons I've put most of the teams issues on the "team" and the "coaching." Romo's decision making has improved a lot the last 2 seasons.
Most of his int's prior to 2011 were due to poor decisions. He was careless with the football which caused a disturbing number of fumbles from 06 to 09. He had a grand total of 43 fumbles during the regular season and playoffs during those 4 seasons. Romo is playing great right now and anytime he's on his game and someone mentions his past issues it draws anger from those who are basking in the moment of his current play. Most fans live in the moment that's why they boo one minute and cheer the next. When Romo plays great he'll be the QB for the next 5 years and when he plays horrible we need to trade him and draft a QB. A few weeks ago some wanted to blow up the team now some of those same fans are singing a different tune...zippity doo dah zippity yay! :dance2:
The fans who "hate" Romo never have anything good to say about him and are ready to move on from him after every bad game he has. They disappear when he plays great not wanting to give him an ounce of credit. The true haters are the ones who start and contribute heavily to the " trade Romo" and the "I'm done with Romo" threads that appear on the board after one of his meltdowns.
So how should the term "choke" be used?
Maybe Romos injuries have something to do with a smaller playoff sample but I don't know if his play does.
I don't twist anything to fit my argument I post facts that support it. Not all int's are on the QB a lot of Romo's int's this season haven't been on him but from 06 to 09 most of the mistakes he made were on him. Romo made some plays on the drive vs Seattle but the FACT is he was aided by 4 running plays that included a 35 yard run by Julius Jones that moved the ball from the Seattle 46 yard line to their 11 yard line. That was the biggest play on that drive it moved the Cowboys into scoring position.
The bobble doesn't make Romo a bad QB and neither does all the turnovers he's had throughout his career. The bobble didn't say anything about Romo as a "QB" but it said something about his ability as a player to handle playoff pressure.
I credited Romo's good play in that game go back and do some reading. I didn't discredit his play in that game I pointed out that he played well but that he didn't have to carry the team in that game. You claimed I twist things to fit my argument but it's clear you're the one who's doing the twisting.
I put a lot of the blame on the OL in that game again go back and read. The fumbles were on Romo he saw the hits coming and didn't protect the ball. And you claim you're no apologist? In the Vikings playoff game the int was on Romo. Romo has been a victim of WR's running bad routes all THIS season but we're talking about games from 3+ years ago so don't get the discussion twisted. No one is criticizing him for what's gone on THIS season so get it straight or move on.
You should take your own advice you're making this way too easy for me. Before engaging in a debate try working on your comprehension skills and do some homework.
I never claimed you said he was the best. I have no issues comprehending what I read but you certainly do. Your posts scream "apologist."
That says it all about you. Had Eli not played well throughout the playoffs and for over 3 and half quarters of his first SB win the game would have never come down to that final drive and Tyree's catch. Had Eli not avoided what appeared to be a sure sack Tyree would have never had the opportunity to make that catch. Had Eli not not brought the Giants back from a 12 point deficit with under 6 minutes to play vs the Cowboys and outgunned the MVP last season Aaron Rodgers in the playoffs AND survived 6 sacks and over 22 hits by a ferocious SF defense there would have been no championship for the Giants last season. I guess Eli's pass to Manninham during the Giants last ditch drive in the SB last Feb was also luck? You know as well as I do had that been Romo and the Cowboys in those games the past 5 years you wouldn't be calling Romo lucky. :toast:
If you can't see how big of an apologist you are hopefully you'll figure that out eventually.
Some of the criticism is unjust in your eyes because you're an apologist...just sayin! :toast:
Well, he is part of the team.
I'm sure you find a game here or there where he could have played better and they would have made the playoffs--even if we was one the best players on the team.
Same can be said for prettymuch any player ona team that falls short by a game or two.
of course, without him, they would almost for sure lose much more...I understand that too.
For example, as well as he played last, I'm sure some of his greatest fans can find a game or two where they would have won if he was fully on his game. I actually thouogh, he played well in both the Jets and Lions games, but he could have played better.
One more win last year, and that sample size would be at least one game larger.
I am on record as saying that Eli's throw to Manningham was a PERFECT throw. I never, not once ever stated it to be lucky, I said the fact that Kyle Williams muffed 2 punts deep in his zone directly effected the outcome to the game and the pending Giants Super Bowl. Yet my reading comprehension skills need work.
And I love that you brought up the Tyree catch, it's the play I always bring up in the Romo-Eli debates. Eli made an amazing play by escaping a rush, keeping the play alive (Being Romo-esque if you think about it) and threw up a prayer. If Tyree doesn't pin the ball to his helmet, or if Harrison makes a play on the ball (Both very distinct possible outcomes on the play given the curcumstances) then Eli doesn't have a Super Bowl and MVP to his name. It wouldn't have changed what Eli had to do to keep the play alive, but at the end of the day he had someone help him by making a play (Tyree) while Romo continuously has people let him down (Crayton).
Every QB needs to get lucky along the way, it's not possible to win the Super Bowl without getting lucky at some point. Romo has gotten lucky plenty, he had 2 INTs dropped in the Cincy game! I never said he hasn't gotten lucky. Again, comprehension.
Romo has to take part responsibility for his team not having success, it's a team game none the less. And the best thing about Romo is that he'll be the first to say that he needs to do more (because he has to make up for his teams deficiencies, a lot more so then other QBs).
But dont confuse me being happy that the Cowboys have one of the best QBs in the QB who has essentially gotten better every year, and not being in a situation like the Cardinals, Jets, or Jaguars with being an apologist. I blame Romo when it's justified, problem is it isn't always justified, and not nearly as much as some would lead you to believe!
This is how I feel. If he had a better team around him things would be better.
Pete Prisco from CBS just tweeted this.
Tony Romo is playing his ... off -- and nobody is noticing.