1. Welcome to CowboysZone!  Join us!  Come on!  You know you want to!

Romo clutch this year

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by supercowboy8, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,722 Messages
    824 Likes Received
    It was more Roethlisberger like than Romo like by Eli. Can't recall Romo ever being grabbed like Eli and coming out of it to make a play. Romo escapes with Houdini spin moves slipping the grasp of defenders rather not pulling away from tackles. Lucky can be "great" both the Immaculate Reception and Hail Mary are considered great plays but were 2 of the luckiest plays in history.

    To be a "great" play it can't be a routine. Most "great" plays have some element of luck to them because there's a degree of difficulty involved with pulling them off. As for Tyree not being in the league anymore him being an average player to begin with made the play even more unbelievable.
  2. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

    22,614 Messages
    2,005 Likes Received
    I think Romo has been in the grasp many times. I bet you could find 2-3 good examples just in the last 2-3 weeks.

    Anyway, I agree that plays that are labled "great" can be, and often are, lucky. Certainly the helmet catch falls into that category.

    As for a great play mostly resulting from what the QB did, I was probably more impressed by Eli's deep, left sideline throw late in the SB last year.
  3. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,722 Messages
    824 Likes Received
    It all starts with the QB if they don't make at least a decent throw giving the receiver an opportunity to make a play on the ball it goes incomplete.


    Great QB's can make things happen when things aren't going as planned they're called playmakers. QB's have more on their plate than any other player. QB is the most difficult position to play in all of sports. If Peyton Manning was the Jets QB this season do you think they would be out of the playoffs right now?

    The circus catch Tyree made was made possible because Eli was so great at avoiding a sack and making an accurate throw. Only FANS here give Tyree all the credit for that play. The last thing any FAN here wants to do is give Eli any credit it would only make it more difficult to defend Romo in their Romo vs Eli debates. :laugh2:


    Crayton may have dropped a pass but in the end Romo still had a 1:50 starting at the Giants 48 yard line to win the game. After he got the Cowboys to the Giants 23 yard line his next 2 passes fell incomplete and his last one was picked off in the end zone. I don't blame him for the pick it came on a 4th and 11 play in desperation time but he did have opportunities and enough time to get it done during that drive.

    Eli also had a receiver drop the ball and that drop came in the endzone late in the game with the Giants behind vs the Cowboys Dec 11th of last season. That was a do or die game for the Giants and they needed a TD to take the lead. Although Eli's receiver dropped a TD Eli shrugged it off and the Giants ended up scoring anyway.


    The Cowboys clearly struggled without Emmitt because their offense revolved around him that was a run first team. That was a different era when ground and pound won games. The Vikings run the ball with Peterson who's on pace to break the single season rushing record but they've struggled to win games because Ponder is an average QB who isn't very productive. Even with an elite runner like Peterson you can't win consistently if you don't have a top notch QB who's productive.

    The 85 Bears killed everyone that season except for Miami. Marino diced them up on Monday Night. You honestly think Miami wins that game without Marino or do you just want to give all the credit to his receivers? It was much easier for defenses to win games back in the mid 80's. Rules that keep being adopted year after year have opened up the passing game and has hampered the aggressiveness of defenses. The new player safety rules would have taken a big bite out of the 85 Bears defense.

    Half their sacks that season would have drawn penalties for late hits and helmet to helmet contact. They would have been flagged for one roughing the passer call after another. Ditka would have suffered coronary that season watching yellow flags rain down on every play his defense made. :laugh2: The Giants D would have had the same problem.

    You can't play defense today like you did 25 years ago. The game has changed it's a QB driven league where QB's are protected like never before. Receivers don't worry about being destroyed over the middle as much because of the defenseless player rule. These rules have benefitted the passing game and have hindered defenses.
  4. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,722 Messages
    824 Likes Received
    Romo has spun away from being in the grasp but nothing like what Eli got out of. He was being pulled down and tackled from behind hardly ever do you see a QB come out of something as dire as that. I've seen Roethlisberger and Mcnabb during his prime pull off escapes similar but It was not an escape you would think Eli could pull off. That was as close to a sack as you can get. That play had to have been payback from the football Gods for the tuck rule game.
  5. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

    22,614 Messages
    2,005 Likes Received
    That's why he was, by definiton, in the grasp.
    It was an illegal play.
  6. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,722 Messages
    824 Likes Received
    In the grasp is a judgment call. A lot of times in big games calls aren't as nit picky. Refs don't want a call they make to determine the outcome of the game.
  7. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

    49,305 Messages
    3,611 Likes Received
    :post:
  8. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,722 Messages
    824 Likes Received
    To expand on my previous comment you have to realize that was the SUPER BOWL and the Giants were facing a 3rd and 5 with only 1:15 left in the game. That was a last ditch drive to try and win a championship. The refs understand the situation and as I mentioned the last thing they want is a call to determine the outcome of a SB especially a judgement call.

    They're going to bend the rules just a little on judgement calls like PI's and in the grasp in a game of that magnitude and allow the players to play. Had they called Eli in the grasp as he broke free it would have caused a lot more controversy than not making the call. Had the call been made the Giants would have been down to a 4th and long with less than a minute to play. I've noticed the last few years in the playoffs and SB the calls aren't as nit picky as they are during the regular season.

    Had Eli been in the same situation during the regular season I'm sure they would have called him in the grasp. The NFL changed the OT rule a few years ago for the playoffs to give teams more of a chance because there's so much on the line.
  9. aikemirv

    aikemirv Well-Known Member

    7,086 Messages
    48 Likes Received
    Oh please, his comeback was not too little too late. What is the difference between Eli to Tyree in the Superbowl and Romo to Dez in the Giants game?

    The WR made the play - that is it!

    By the way Romo also hit Ogletree in the hands on that drive for a TD - I am pretty sure the QB made the plays to win that game but the WR's did not!
  10. ufcrules1

    ufcrules1 Well-Known Member

    6,879 Messages
    1,198 Likes Received
    The difference is Romo wouldn't have had to "Come back" if he didn't dig himself into a hole by his own mistakes (4 interceptions with one being a pick 6 right to JPP). That is the difference. It is what you call too little too late.
  11. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

    75,805 Messages
    2,074 Likes Received

    Never said QB was not important but I have seen poor passes that WR made a damn fine catch to make the play it is never all the QB and that is something HC have said that seems go over peoples heads and that is QB get too much credit for the success and too much blame for failure. Until the QB plays the game one on one vs another QB it is team it is others to make the plays happen. Yes it starts with the QB it ends with someone else and if they don't make the catch, if they don't run the right rout then it really does not matter what the hell the QB did others are a must it is not hard to figure out.
  12. AmericasTeam31

    AmericasTeam31 Active Member

    1,226 Messages
    4 Likes Received
    I was just pointing out a flaw in your argument. You stated that the Eli to Tyree play was ranked #1 in the article you posted, when in fact it was #6. You also supplied a link to a video in which the PLAYERS themselves said it shouldn't have been the #1 play, rather the Holmes catch should've been. I'll value players opinions any day over talking heads and mediots.

    There are a handful of special WR's in the league who can make the catch that Holmes made. Tryee was in the middle of the field with good position on Harrison, had the ball cleanly hit his hands before Harrison touched it, and then it fell to his helmet. It was a nice catch no doubt, but on where near the catch that Holmes made. Watch the Holmes TD again, watch the velocity with which the ball was thrown, watch the THREE defenders around him, and watch as he gets shoved out of bounds almost as soon as he gets control of the pass. Much higher degree of difficulty that going up for a jump ball.
  13. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,722 Messages
    824 Likes Received
    Football is a team sport but great players get singled out and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. The QB is the engine of every team and in this era of prolific passers you can't win a championship regardless of how many good players you have if you don't have a real solid QB who can make big plays in critical situations. The Colts and Redskins are competing for playoffs spots this season instead of playing for next year like they were last season at this time because they upgraded at QB. Great QB's make players around them better it's a fact. Look how much better a team Denver is with Manning than they were with Tebow. Who was Eric Decker until this season?

    Look at the numbers Demaryius Thomas has put up this season compared last season with Tebow and Orton. Now that Manning has shown up Denver has some real weapons at receiver. QB's receive a lot of the blame for losses and most of the credit for wins because they handle the ball more than any other player and their performances each week usually determine the outcome of games. How they perform directly effects everyone around them especially their receivers.

    Rarely will you find a WR in the HOF who didn't have a great QB probably a HOF QB throwing to them most of their career. Very unlikely Jerry Rice would have had the career he did if he didn't have Joe Montana and Steve Young throwing to him. Some will say Montana wouldn't have been the QB he was without Rice but Montana had already built his reputation and had 2 SB wins before Rice ever showed up in SF. Great QB's can make even ordinary receivers look good like Dan Marino did with the Mark's brothers. Marino put up record breaking numbers with a couple of receivers that will never sniff the HOF.

    Elway spent most of his career without a pro bowl WR. Even Romo can make an ordinary receiver look good like he did with Laurent Robinson last season. WR's are at the mercy of the QB if they have a Tim Tebow or Mark Sanchez flinging it they won't amount to crap. It's a lot easier finding a receiver that can catch the ball than a QB who can consistently throw it accurately. Naturally a QB needs some help but the "great" QB's elevate the play of everyone and can carry a team in critical last minute situations. Most big games are lost not by receivers dropping passes but by QB's turning the ball over and not being able to make accurate throws in pressure situations.
  14. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

    75,805 Messages
    2,074 Likes Received
    Again understand the importance of the position I have also seen many QB who were avg win SB. QB get way too much credit and way to much blame that is fact and any HC would tell you that. It is not hard to figure out then again maybe it is. There are a host of avg QB with rings there are some great without them that is plain hardcore facts
  15. DandyDon1722

    DandyDon1722 It's been a good 'un, ain't it?

    2,015 Messages
    536 Likes Received
    Nope...absolutely wrong. The Hail Mary was not a lucky play. Staubach pump-faked the safety off, Pearson ran a double move beat the cornerback and got behind the safety who never recovered from the pump, so bad in fact the pass was a bit under thrown and he still had time to catch it. It was an extremely well executed play.

    Immaculate Reception - Lucky
    Eli to Tyree - Lucky

    Flutie's Hail Mary - Well executed.

    Big difference.
  16. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,722 Messages
    824 Likes Received
    All Hail Mary's are lucky plays that's why they're called a "hail mary." The QB throws up a prayer hoping their receiver can come down with it. It was a lucky play. Staubach was the one who called it a Hail Mary that's why the play is know as the "Hail Mary."
  17. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,722 Messages
    824 Likes Received
    I posted the wrong link and meant to post the one from NFL.com who did list the play at #1. Players may have disagreed with the ranking of that play but it's all based on opinion. Some think Harrison's 100 yard int return in SB XXLII was the greatest play in SB history. There's a number of plays that will come up it all comes down to opinion. I just wanted to point out to the poster who thought it was ridiculous that anyone would rank the Eli to Tyree pass as the greatest play in SB history that others who are well respected around the NFL such as Steve Sabol also considered the play #1.

    The catch Holmes made in the SB was no doubt a great catch but every season we see at least a few catches by receivers that are just as good. Even you admitted there's a handful of receivers who could make that catch. It was the situation being a last ditch drive in the SB that made the catch stand out even more. The catch by Tyree you never see because he had the ball pinned to his helmet and that's what kept him from dropping it. As Tyree went up and caught the ball his left hand slipped off as he was coming down. At the same time Harrison was trying to knock it down. Tyree used his right hand to keep the ball pinned against his helmet as he was falling backwards to the ground. Had the ball touched the ground it would have been ruled incomplete.

    He had the awareness to keep the ball just above the ground as he went down. In my opinion the degree of difficulty making that catch legal was higher than the degree of difficulty in the Holmes catch. Again it's all based on opinion but when's the last time you saw a receiver catch a ball pressed against the top of their helmet while being tackled? I'm confident you'll find a lot more catches like the one Holmes made than the like the one Tyree made. Tyree's catch under any situation even during a preseason game would make you go "WOW."
  18. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,722 Messages
    824 Likes Received

    This will give you a better understanding of what a Hail Mary pass is.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail_Mary_pass
  19. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,722 Messages
    824 Likes Received
    The average QB's who won SB's did so years ago when great defense and a solid running could win you a championship. Last season the Pats and Giants had the lowest ranked defenses of any 2 teams that have competed in a SB. The game has changed and you have to throw the ball to win championships. Bus driving QB's aren't going to get it done in this era which is why SF is going with Kaepernick over Alex Smith.

    There's going to be games where a QB is going to have to put the ball up 40+ times and produce or you're going to lose. Adrian Peterson had 210 yards rushing vs Green Bay 3 weeks ago and the Vikings lost because Ponder only completed 48% of his passes for 119 yards and tossed 2 picks. Back in the day a back putting up 200+ yards almost guaranteed you a victory but in this day and age it still comes down to the QB. You have to put points on the board and to do that you have to throw the ball.

    It's about spreading defenses out and exploiting them but it takes a prolific QB to do it. Defenses are hampered by the rules especially all the new player safety rules that keep being added avery year. The rules have opened up the passing game but if you're stuck with a Mark Sanchez you're not going to win. Even with a SB MVP WR in Santonio Holmes Sanchez hasn't been able to get it done because he can't play. Put Brady or Manning on the Jets and they would be competing for a SB this season.
  20. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

    75,805 Messages
    2,074 Likes Received
    Game has not changed that much, if a QB can avoid turnover and not lose a game you can win. No doubt poor QB play can lose game faster than any other position but you don't need to be Arron Rodgers to win SB it take a team to do that. Always has and always will. Naming Tebow and Sanchez? please they are poor QB and as I said poor QB can lose you a game. Guys like Brad Johnson and guys like Trent Dilfer played good ball they made few mistakes and their teams won.

Share This Page