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Ryan Braun suspended for the rest of 2013 by MLB

Discussion in 'Sports Zone' started by 03EBZ06, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, and that's why they can't do anything as heavy handed as giving a lifetime ban to a player due over $80 million over the next 4 years. They gave Braun 50 games which they were entitled to and slapped on another 15 because of what happened with his first failed test, but those 15 games represent a petty $500,000, so no one really argued it because $500k is small potatoes for a guy who will make roughly $120 million over the rest of this decade.
  2. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    I foolishly took this statement at face value and assumed it was accurate, especially since the $6 million is chump change compared to the big picture. But, as it turns out, he gets $6 million for passing Willie Mays, which is only 13 HRs away. I think it's safe to say he has 13 HRs left in him.

    A-Rod just let out an opening salvo, esentially telling MLB they can you-know-what themselves with their attempt to suspend him. I wouldn't be surprised to see a deal made, but the deal will be much closer to 50 games than the speculation of 212 games. I predict a good chance A-Rod will be playing in 2014, and he certainly isn't going to roll over and accept whatever MLB tries to throw at him.
  3. bounce

    bounce Active Member

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    That's kind of where I stand on the issue. I couldn't care less. There's so much noise about protecting the purity of the game, and it's ridiculous. Baseball is trying to flex their muscles now to act like they REALLY didn't know, and that they were duped as much as anyone, when they definitely knew, and they're just saving face. Going back and 'wiping' records, or refusing to acknowledge records is just voluntary blindness. Barry Bonds hit 73 balls out of the park that year. Most of them affected wins or losses, and the wins or losses affected the records, standings, and eventual world series winner. Pretending it didn't changes nothing. And the HOF is so subjective anyway, that who really cares, anymore? It's voted on by old purists with an agenda. They'll put in who they like, and keep out who they don't. It's not based on merit, which it should be.

    Case in point, how is a guy voted into the HOF 20 years after he's first eligible? Do his numbers all of a sudden become worthy, even though they haven't changed in the past two decades?
  4. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    No kidding. Virtually all clubs have insurance policies on big contracts. It's pretty much common knowledge but yes, lets once again hear how nobody knows anything about contracts.

    Let me just say that Baseball contracts are not 100% guaranteed and once again, that has been reported earlier today. Now, I pointed this out to you last time we discussed this. There are circumstances in which contracts can be voided. However, the conditions around such things are specific. The Yankees will not be on the hook for the entire 114 million, as you say so the statement doesn't hold much weight. A-Rod will get the entire 114 less the 30 to 35 million in suspension (however much that is). I also understand that the team will get back the 80% and I further understand that if that's how it plays out, those wages will apply towards the Luxury Tax but it will not apply towards the cap, which means that the Yankees will have money to go out and sign other players.

    Of course, the insurance policy holder would have to concur but that's fine. At no point did I say it was a done deal or a sure thing. Does every conversations with you have to illustrate your inability to actually read the post and just take it for what it is saying as opposed to you trying to make it mean something you would like it to say?

    Honestly, it's like pulling teeth with you.
  5. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I think it's a far cry from a sure thing. At this point, if you believe what is being reported, MLB is going to hand down suspensions for A-Rod and if reports are accurate, he will not play the remainder of 2013 and the entire season of 2014 best case scenario. That means that he will essentially be making a return to Baseball in 2015, at which point he will be 40. Who is going to sign him? Who is going to take on his contract? There is no guarantee that that ever happens. If they make a deal, it may be less then 212 games but it won't be 50. It will be much more then that IMO. Regardless, there are no guarantees that A-Rod will ever be back to baseball. Further, that's 1 milestone, should he return and the contract also states that he has to be with the team. The Yankees, if put in a position to have to pay A-Rod, are not likely to play him and there is nothing that he or the Union can do about that.

    Also, if MLB decides to punish A-Rod under the Collective Bargaining Agreement, A-Rod will have no recourse in when the suspension starts. It will be immediate.
  6. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say nobody knows anything about contract, I just said you don't know anything about contracts.

    You said that contract is insured and would pay about 80% of it's value. Then, when discussing whether or not A-Rod would come back after his suspension, you asked me: "What would you rather have, 60 million or 80% of 114 million? I think his insurance clause pays 80% of the contract." It is painfully obvious that you thought A-Rod was the recipient of the insurance policy, but now you're trying to pretend like you knew all along that was not the case.

    Seriously, brah, just admit you made an honest mistake. It's really not that big of a deal.
    Oh really? What circumstances are those and when, in recent baseball history, has that happened? Oh sure, if A-Rod pulls an Aaron Hernandez and doesn't show up to training camp because he's in jail then sure, the contract wouldn't be paid. But they can't void a contract over a PED suspension and as long as he shows up, they have to pay him.
    First of all, he has been getting paid this year so, after this year, A-Rod is scheduled to earn $86 million over the final 4 years of his contract. The Yankees are on the hook for that entire amount, less money saved from his suspension, and there isn't a darn thing they can do about it. You are constantly bringing up your 80% figure but there isn't going to be any 80%. They aren't going to recover 80% of that money because the insurance policy only pays if A-Rod suffers a career ending injury and he hasn't suffered a career-ending injury.
    I am politely and respectfully trying to show you the large number of mistakes you have made, and teach you the true facts of the situation. Don't get mad at me for all your misunderstanding of baseball contracts.
  7. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect, this is the kind of statement which demonstrates you don't know what you are talking about. When he returns to baseball after his suspension, HE WILL STILL BE A YANKEE. He doesn't need to sign with anybody because he already has his contract in place.
    I consider that a reasonable prediction.
    Assuming A-Rod wants to come back and is willing to fight for it, it is an absolute certainty that he will (unless something radical comes out of the blue like they announce A-Rod was gambling or something like that). MLB cannot suspend him for life. They might try and they might announce later this week that that is what they have done, but I have no doubt they would lose in court and appeals.
    They will be forced to have him on their 25-man roster. They cannot banish him to the minor leagues. True, they cannot be forced to actually put him in the lineup, but it's just not realistic to suggest that they will have a $20 million player on their roster and have him warm the bench for 162 games. He may not be an everyday player, but he will get his at-bats. (Obviously they can cut him, which I consider a strong possibility, but that won't save them any money, at which point he will be a UFA and I have no doubt some other team out there would take him)
    There's actually tons of disagreement about this, and I'm mature enough to admit that I just don't know. Of course, as I said, there's tons of disagreement about this and fact is that no one really knows. What I expect is that he will get a major suspension and will appeal but also will start serving it immediately to get at least 50 games out of the way. That way he will serve 50 games of his suspension over the course of the rest of 2013, then there will be a whole heck of a lot of legal maneuverings and fighting over the next 8 months to determine his status for 2014 and going forward.

    I am actually revising my prediction to say I think he will miss some, but not all, of 2014. If I had to guess, I'll say when all is said and done, he loses the final 50 of 2013 and the first 50 of 2014 (even though the initial suspension announced may be worse).
  8. dexternjack

    dexternjack World Traveler Zone Supporter

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    Aroid will get every dime in his contract except for the games he misses due to suspension. There are no opt out clauses written in either. The Yankees might be able to take him to court to try to get out of that signed piece of paper but they will not win.

    I do think Aroid will take the suspension and sit out the remainder of the season and 2014.

    As for insurance policies, they cover career-ending injuries only but this could open the door for PED use on future contracts.
  9. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    +1 +1 +1. It's actually an infuriating process (from the team's perspective). If they wanted to take him to court to try to get out of it, what they have to do is cut him, pay him, and then go to court to try and get the money back. They can't keep him on the team and pay him his contract while trying to take him to court and void it. They would have to pay it out in full and try to recover what they could while he would be free to sign and play elsewhere. Possession is 9/10th the law so sorry Yankees fans, you're not getting out from under this. :-D
  10. dexternjack

    dexternjack World Traveler Zone Supporter

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    Baseball really needs to figure out how to get out of contracts like the NFL. Guarantee some money and the player gets the rest if they earn it. Being a Mets fan, I really am soured on those contracts by the likes of Jason Bay, Santana, etc, etc. MLB players have it easy, they can hit .200 and still rake in the cash :(

    The players union is too strong IMO. I don't feel sorry for the owners because they are still making billions but when bad contracts hold your team hostage(my Mets), something needs to change.
  11. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm sure you are right. I'm sure I know nothing about this entire situation. Moving on.....

    The policy is believed to insure 80% of the value of the contract. The fact that you believe whatever you believe does not make it so. I read the article that explained the contract yesterday so while I do not claim to know all there is to know about the situation, I did read how the contract works and the insurance policy the Yankees have against the contract.

    However, if A-Rod accepts the punishment of the remainder of this season and the entire 2014 season, that would save the Yankees approximately 35 Million dollars (we don't exactly because we don't have the exact details). For the record, that's 91 Million or about 80% of 114 Million. A-Rod is not going to get the entire 114 Million, which you yourself have already acknowledged. How's it feel to just admit an error?




    Lastly, you never answered the original question. What would you rather have 61 million or 80% of 114?

    Funny coming from you. You are the last poster on this board that would ever follow your own advice but no matter. I take it for what it's worth.

    Been over this before. If injuries sustained are directly related to and are a result of PEDs usage, then the contract can be voided. Like 5 times we have been over this and before you say, show me, I already have. In addition, drug suspensions are not the only thing A-Rod can be suspended for.

    You have no idea what the actual terms of the Insurance Policy are. If you do, then show it to me. However, 80% would be about what A-Rod would collect if he accepted MLB's terms.

    As to the injuries, you don't know if the injuries are career threatening or not. You can make a statement that says you don't believe they are and that's fair. However, because he has not been back into the lineup, you can't say that with 100% assurance.

    Do me favor. Let me pick who has enough knowledge to teach me. I'm politely and respectfully trying ot show inform you that you are not that guy.
  12. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    There is a lot of discussion already over changing the terms of the CBA to allow for revocation of contracts if caught cheating. I don't know if that will happen or not but the concept seems to be picking up steam.
  13. dexternjack

    dexternjack World Traveler Zone Supporter

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    Yes, but that will be a long process, possibly years in litigation. By the time it passes(if it even does), these ridiculous contracts will almost be finished(of course new ones will have been signed too). I do believe these recent PED issues will lead to the way new contracts are structured, but again, it will be a long process.
  14. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe not. There are a lot of people who seem to be getting behind this idea. It does not sound as if they are intending to wait until the current CBA is up. It sounds like they may be trying to do something about this in the next year or so. Of course, you never know about these kinds of things. Sometimes they lose steam and get forgotten but maybe not. This might be one of those things were enough backing exists that something might actually happen sooner rather then later. If the push to clean up baseball is real, then the Players who are clean are going to be in favor of it because that would mean more money to them for future contract negotiations, the owners would be in favor because it protects them financially and the League would be in favor of it because it solves a huge problem for them going forward in enforcing rules against PEDs usage. Also helps the PR issue they currently have. The Unions would be the ones that might say no but if it would be in their best interest to try and work with MLB, they might consider it a positive, I don't know?

    Will be interesting to see what happens there.
  15. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    I am glad you've finally realized this. Now please let me help instruct you even more.
    I agree with this paragraph. Yesterday, you obviously believed A-Rod was the recipient of the insurance payout until I schooled you in the wrror of those ways.
    I don't think that is what is going to happen but if it does, we know exactly what they will save: $8.6 million for this year and $25 million for next year. They will still owe him $61 million for 2015-2017 plus his incentives.
    For the record, the Yankees currently owe A-Rod $94.6 million and they would save almost 36% of that if he got suspended for the remainder of this year plus all of 2014. Your "80% of $114 million" is just complete nonsense and number made up by someone who has very little understanding of the situation.
    I never answered the question because it has absolutely zero relevance. The Yankees currently owe A-Rod $94.6 million over the rest of 2013 plus the next 4 seasons. That number will decrease according to the suspension, but your "80% of $114 million" is just nonsense written by someone who has no clue what he is talking about.

    But his injuries aren't a result of PED usage, so you're out of luck there.

    It's actually 64.4% if he accepted a suspension to the end of 2014.

    Do I have to teach you 1st grade math as well?
    You apparently seem not to realize that A-Rod has been playing rehab ball for roughly the past month and is scheduled to return to the team August 6th. Tough to say his current injuries are career-ending injuries when he has bene playing baseball over the past month and is scheduled to return to the majors next week. (NOTE: I don't think he is actually going to make it to August 6 without being suspended, but that's got nothing to do with his injuries, that's because of the PED's)

    [quote="ABQCOWBOY, post: 5125253, member: 318"Do me favor. Let me pick who has enough knowledge to teach me. I'm politely and respectfully trying ot show inform you that you are not that guy.[/quote]You can do whatever you want, but anyone reading this thread has seen your repeated errors and also seen me clearly demonstrate that I know what I am talking about and you do not.

    Now I am happy to set you straight, which I have been doing all along, as the rest of the group can plainly see.
  16. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Whatever makes you feel better.

    These conversations are pretty easy if you just declare victory I guess. LOL.... OK. Might want to change the W to an E so that everybody understands what you are declaring thou.

    The actual amount depends on what MLB does and you don't know what that will be yet. The incentives may or may not be reached and I am inclined to believe they will not be reached but we will see what happe
    I have seen the number reported to be 114 million. Where do you get the 96 and the 36% from?

    So much for that admitting when you are wrong advice yeah?

    You are a Dr. and you can make that statement definitively?

    Again, show the numbers you are looking at so we can all see how you arrive at this statement.

    I don't know, are you up to it? I'm thinking no since your original statement of playing rehab games for the past month is completely inaccurate. Exactly how many games in the past month has A-Rod played in? He was put back on the Disabled list on the 22nd. I know he missed a game because he ditched it for a conversation with the Commish. I know he missed a game due to injury, he went out with an injury and he had one rain out. How many games has he actually played this month? You don't know if he's physically OK or not.


    [/QUOTE]

    It's your story, you tell it.
  17. dexternjack

    dexternjack World Traveler Zone Supporter

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    This is Alex's remaining salaries in millions....
    2013 28
    2014 25
    2015 21
    2016 20
    2017 20

    He has already been paid more than half for 2013, he does get paid the same for rehabbing in the minors. I don't know the exact amount paid this season, but lets say he has been paid 18mill, so he is still owed 10mill. That leaves approx. 96 mill left to be paid.

    Now, lets say he gets suspended for this season and next, that leaves around 61 million left to be paid.

    Out of Alex's remaining 96 million, he loses almost 36.5%(35 mill) of that remaining contract, which means he is still paid 63.5%(61 mill).
  18. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    So the 96 would come from his 114 million, less what he has already been paid this season. That's reasonable.

    It's logical to assume that if he played this season (doubtful at this point) he would probably catch Say Hey Willie and earn an additional 6 Million.
  19. dexternjack

    dexternjack World Traveler Zone Supporter

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    Correct. His remaining money was 114 million going into the 2013 season. I am not including incentives in this rough estimate.
  20. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, just edited my last to point out the probably 6 Million he would likely make if he could play this season by catching Mays. That's a pretty reasonable assessment of how you get to 96.

    Appreciate it.

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