Featured Scattershooting

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by TwoDeep3, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    During the Denver/Kansas City game, it was remarked that Manning gets the ball out in 2.5 seconds. Collinsworth expressed that Manning could bailout an offensive lineman when he gets caught short on a switch because the ball will come out so quickly.

    Romo has one of the quickest releases in the game and has been compared to Marino in the past with his speed to make the throw.

    So what's the difference?

    I believe Romo is intelligent enough to make plays like Manning, but something is holding the passing game back.

    That something is play design. While I believe Manning has a better set of receivers, the ones at Dallas are still good enough to find the separation to play that quick passing game. But the plays that Dallas runs are different from the ones run in Denver. Wherein Manning knows where the single coverage will be and can throw the ball before the rush, lately Romo has had to hold the ball longer. And with the offensive line of Dallas, that causes disruption.

    Again, as I have said in several threads recently, Dez is blanketed and the people designing the formations and plays are blissfully unaware, or incapable of creating sets that aid Dez in separation.

    The pick play, and fake pick play is a staple of the Denver offense and routinely they get people one on one. Even their most successful receivers can enjoy man-up because of play design.

    I believe the bunch set using two other receivers to pick for Dez and get him singled up, or motion would solve problems.

    But since this offense does not venture into that realm, it stands to reason the coaches are where the issues arise.

    I find this extremely obtuse of Garrett not understanding how to get his star receiver open.

    And this is where the problem lies with the passing game. I don't believe this is Romo. I believe this is Garrett.

    Yet, I see Romo throwing shorter routes to protect the ball. I personally believe this is because of games where he has thrown picks that could be conceived as costing the team the games. He is trying to protect the ball more, and this takes him out of what makes him Romo.

    If this is the case, then this too falls on Garrett. Because as being the OC, he should have a report established with Romo that would allow him to push Romo to risk more.

    If he does not, why not? Seven years should be enough to establish that.

    If he does and this is play selection, again Garrett should take the fall for this.


    There have been threads about Garrett's replacement, and while I have read the majority of the posts, I did not see one name I believe would be perfect for this team as a replacement for Opie.

    Jack Del Rio.

    During the Denver/ Kansas City game SS Duke Ihenacho taunted a WR of the Chiefs in the endzone creating a penalty - Unsportsnmanlike Conduct. This reset the downs and allowed KC to score a touchdown.

    Immediately after the called penalty Del Rio pulled Ihenacho until the series was done.

    Think Opie would do that?

    Del Rio is an edgy guy and has head coaching experience. This team - and by that I mean the players, and all the players - these guys need a kick in the pants. Del Rio is not ancient like Holmgren or some of the others you could name. He is not a milque-toast coach and understands the defense.

    That would open up the position for a real Offensive coordinator.

    I'm sure someone will toss out his credentials and suggest he didn't win it all at the last place he was the head coach. But he possesses a great understanding of the game and is an undeniable leader.

    And the underlined part is what the Dallas Cowboys do not have.

    Can he work with Jerry? Maybe not. And that is a shame. Because he fits the mold of what this team has sorely needed for the past half dozen years.

    Someone who creates a fear of losing because of what the head coach will do.


    I have to wonder if Murray is on Garrett's shate list. He did not carry the ball much against the Saints, even though he seemed to gain yards.


    I think it will be the Saints vs. either Denver or Indianapolis in the Super Bowl.

    DOUBLE WING Well-Known Member

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    Well as far as Red Ball goes, I agree. There have not been too many games over the last few seasons where I came away thinking he had outcoached or outsmarted the opponent. For the most part, some of our most impressive performances have been when the team completely scrapped the game plan and turned it into schoolyard ball. It would take a lot of convincing to get me to believe that Garrett has gotten the most out of anybody on the offense.

    I wholeheartedly disagree, however, on Del Rio. I'm all for giving people second chances, but eight years in one place is a pretty long first chance. And in those eight seasons in Jacksonville, he only had two playoff appearances and never got past the wildcard round. He seems like a good motivator, but I really think we can do a lot better. Aside from his lackluster record in Jacksonville, I have big question marks about how he is as a personnel guy. I'm not sure who was running that show in Jacksonville, but there are some big personnel red flags that come up for me when I look at his Jags teams.

    The next head coach being strong in the personnel department is a must for me, because I don't trust anyone currently in the organization has the smarts to be able to turn what we currently have into a championship contending team.
    Ender likes this.
  3. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    love scattershooting threads and the general ode to Sherrod but have to quibble with each point here.

    1. Del Rio is a retread that failed as a Coach. He is a DC right now for a guy who has been an elite level DC. Not even sure he totally designed that defense much less has any input into why they win: Manning. That defense is just a bit better than our bad unit. He wouldn't make my top 10 list of prospective coaches. Not that I think Garrett is anywhere near being fired. The ship is listless but it isn't sinking. A total collapse the final 6 games could change that but I don't think it will. Some favorable scheduling and divisional success get us in the playoffs IMO. And they aren't firing a guy who has us in the playoffs or playing for it week 17.

    2. Manning is smarter than Romo. Romo told us that. Peyton is the smartest QB in the league. And that football IQ starts with talent. Where he signs he insures he has the weapons he needs.
    Think Denver went out and got Welker on a lark? Can you imagine the Dallas offense if we had cut Miles and signed Welker? 3 WR/1TE sets with Welker and Beasley in the slot and Dez/Witten outside? Crazy possibilities for all guys who can beat coverage.

    3. Murray was just returning. Not sure why it seems hard to gather the reasoning behind a "carry count" for Murray. He goes hard, he gets fatigued, he gets hurt.
    He SHOULD be handled like a starting pitcher and have his carries numbered. Because we need him week in and week out. Not in games we lose by 20+.

    4. Final point is we really needed that Bye week but I am glad it's over. Onward we march.
    Idgit likes this.
  4. SWG9

    SWG9 Well-Known Member

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    Although I'm inclined to agree with you, this only works if the coach is actually allowed the sole discretion to pick the players.

    We had Bill Parcells here and he was frequently overruled by the Jones boys, so I really don't see who we could bring in with the necessary clout to muzzle those bozos.

    Bottom line: as long as Dallas employs their current organizational "structure", we could have Jimmy Johnson coaching with Ozzie Newsome and Ron Wolf as scouts and we would still have mixed results because Larry Lacewell, Barry Switzer, and the liquor store guy would get to make the odd pick here and there...
  5. CATCH17

    CATCH17 1st Round Pick

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    I like the first half of the thread.

    I also like Del Rio but he had his chance as a head coach. I think we can do better than him.

    If we had Payton Manning even Jason Garrett would look like he knows what he is doing.
  6. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    I'm iffy on the play design. We've seen various stills from All-22 where receivers, like Dez, are open and Romo can't see them. It's tough for me to knock the play design too much when that is happening. I tend to agree with Sturm on this one. The design does call for a bit too much of having to win battles and quality execution rather than creating mismatches and getting some easy plays. But, Romo is clearly afraid to pull the trigger. And the other issue is that his footwork, accuracy and velocity are noticeably off. Lastly, throwing short route pass patterns is what Romo struggles the most with. He's really an intermediate pass pattern QB that does pretty well on the deep ball, but usually because he's extended the play on the deep ball. He's still able to extend the play (not as good as he once was), but he seems to be afraid to throw it deep after he extends the play.

    I wouldn't want Del Rio. He's a very plane jane coach. And yes, Garrett has pulled players for making bad mistakes. He's done it with Murray after he fumbled and then missed a blocking assignment. He's done it with Carter this year. He pulled Free in the middle of last season. I don't have a problem with Garrett and disciplining the players. The players have been disciplined. I just think you're judging Del Rio based off one game....where his QB is Peyton Manning. Romo is not in the same galaxy as Peyton Manning.

    As far as Denver's play design, you have to have somebody like Peyton at QB who can call the plays needed for the defense. Romo is smart, but he's not Peyton smart. And Peyton is much better at the short passes, mainly because he's taller and more easily throw over the linemen. That's what I really see with Peyton now...he doesn't have the deep ball like he used to. So they run a lot more short passing plays and hope to set up the deep pass.

    Where I really blame Garrett is that I don't like the playcalling. Between the playcalling and the play designs, we often see plays where a lot of things have to be right...for a 4 yard gain. We see things like shotgun formation which makes the snap more difficult. Then we see empty backfield sets which means protecting becomes more difficult. And because of the empty backfield set and it's on 1st or 2nd down...the defense knows you're not running, which only means that it is more difficult to execute the play. Then we see short pass patterns which means that we have to worry about the execution of the pass. Again...all for a 4 yard gain.

    You're just better off handing the ball to Murray where less things have to be right and you can still gain about the same amount of yards. Furthermore, you can set up bigger pass plays.

    Between Callahan, Garrett and Romo...all three are to blame for this nonsense. Romo keeps audibling into this. Romo was supposed to 'have more input in the offense' and this is what we get? And Garrett and Callahan seem to have no intention in putting a stop to it.

    It's not all on Romo, but this team needs an offensive coach that can prevent Romo from hurting himself.

    Corso and bbailey423 like this.
  7. Chocolate Lab

    Chocolate Lab Run-loving Dino

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    When I first started reading this I thought you were going to say, "If we had Peyton Manning as OC, Tony Romo would look much better."

    You could also say, "If Peyton Manning had to run Garrett's limited check with me system, he would look much worse."
  8. TrailBlazer

    TrailBlazer Well-Known Member

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    I like del rio. He played for this franchise
  9. CaptainMorgan

    CaptainMorgan Well-Known Member

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    This offense hasn't always sucked this bad under Garrett so to put all the blame on him is not doing due diligence. I
    think his play calling and offense in general is not very good but I also believe Romo's play is falling off.

    It's hard for people to admit to that but it's happening.
  10. TrailBlazer

    TrailBlazer Well-Known Member

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    I don't think manning would go for that. There's not an offense in the world that I don't think manning could excel in.
  11. dropdeadfred5

    dropdeadfred5 Active Member

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    play calling and play design sucks. Take what the Defense gives is a losers way to start out.
    Clove and birdwells1 like this.
  12. dropdeadfred5

    dropdeadfred5 Active Member

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    Sure put him in the spread all the time- or better yet the option. I am sure he would excell there.
  13. TrailBlazer

    TrailBlazer Well-Known Member

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    Any offense within reason. I'm talking pro style offenses. But I'm sure you knew what I meant. Just trying to be a wise ***
  14. Matts4313

    Matts4313 Well-Known Member

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    You act like he hasnt benched people before... Heck, hes benched several people this year. At least 2 RBs for fumbling. Carter, Claiborne as well.

    Saying Garrett wouldnt bench someone isnt even the most outlandish thing... Saying Romo is as smart as Manning was. Romo is a good QB (even though he is has played well below his standard the last 5 weeks). He isnt a great QB. He isnt a HOF QB. Manning is much smarter.
  15. CATCH17

    CATCH17 1st Round Pick

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    That's because the only thing that has ever made this offense worth a crap is Romo making plays with his feet and buying time.

    Now Romo is playing within the system and trying not to screw up and look at the results.
  16. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member

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    I've thought for awhile now that Dallas' offensive design is outdated and limiting. It seriously lacks creativity and the run game is often telegraphed by the the formation, down and distance. That's fine if your line is dominant.

    To me, it is incredible that they have scored as much as they have over the years.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  17. ilykdrama

    ilykdrama Well-Known Member

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    Watching the Chiefs game, I think that Manning is the best football player I've ever see (maybe will ever see) in my lifetime. Not ATHLETE but overall player. The only way you defeat him is get to him physically. If you don't, no matter what you do or who you have as your defense he will beat you. He doesn't even start beating you at the snap. It's before that. The audibles, drawing you offsides, everything. It's really a joy to see. It's almost like he's cheating. If you don't physically rattle him he just wins all the time, no matter what. Blitzes, coverages, anything. He'll beat them if you can't get your hands on him.
  18. CaptainMorgan

    CaptainMorgan Well-Known Member

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    You may be right but then why doesnt Romo recognize It and change it?
  19. Ntegrase96

    Ntegrase96 Well-Known Member

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    That's the big difference between he and Romo. Outside of just not being as physically gifted, Romo doesn't do the extra things to help himself.

    How many times has Romo tried to draw someone offsides on a 2nd and short? You know, a prime passing down where you could take a big shot anyway, why not make it a 'free' big shot?

    How many times has he pump faked a quick slant to free up a receiver?
    ilykdrama likes this.
  20. Ntegrase96

    Ntegrase96 Well-Known Member

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    Reviewing the game tape as much as I have, I'd like to believe that the creativity is there. There is just a lack of willingness to use it often.

    There have been some really good plays we've run, but they are few and far between. I wonder why?

    Afraid that we'll run out of ideas? I don't know.

    But my biggest issue is the highlighted part... Telegraphing what we're going to do it before the snap. It's so annoying.

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