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Sean Taylor vs Roy Williams debate

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Gryphon, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. Gryphon

    Gryphon Merge Ahead

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    Interesting topic being discussed on another forum by Thompsonius22:

    The redskins say lots of stuff about Roy but Roy has 5 INT's compared to Taylor's 0 INT's...Roy has 7 Pass Deflections and Sean Taylor has 3...Roy is also leading the league in takeaways...they need to get back on here and defend themselves because something is wrong here.

    Reply by mrkljohn:

    This comparison along with the Ware vs Merriman comparison has really gotten old. Both of these guys can be extremely dominate safeties, but they lack the necessary discipline to do so. NEITHER ONE OF THEM can cover in man to man situations and they both are looking for the knock out hit too often rather than trying to get the ball back for their offenses. I will say that the light has click a little bit better for Roy lately, but he is still making some horrible mistakes in coverage. He and Taylor could be leading the league in interceptions if they weren't looking for the kill shot so much. You stated that Taylor doesn't have any interceptions. It's definitely not because the opportunities haven't been there. Just as I stated about both of them, he has refused to go for the ball trying to lay out the receiver. Quarterbacks aren't afraid to throw at either of these guys because they know both aren't going for the ball. They both continuously put themselves in bad position to make the plays. As I said earlier, the light is coming on for Roy, but it's not completely bright yet. I wish Parcells would hire/beg Darren Woodson to come be the defensive backs coach and I'm sure you'd see an vast improvement in our safeties period.

    reply by pauliewaulie_2:

    Williams and Ed Reed are the best safeties in the league. And both have been beaten on a few occasions. Taylor is too immature to be a great safety or player for that matter. He has great talent but as talent is nothing if doesn't mature into greatness.

    Williams leads the league in turnovers and that by itself says alot. So, going by the numbers Williams is the best safety in the league right now.

    reply by goboyzinBigD:

    Shameful,your guys couldnt lift Sean Taylor to Roy Williams's level so you try to pull R.W down to Sean's level.Stop just admitt Roy is much better and easily the best at his position.Sean Taylor(here to known as "the facemasker")is the Steve Francise of the NFL,every year people were intrigued by his talents but he never turned the corner and is now considered uncoachable.I see the same with The facemasker,he has not gotten better since his rookie yearand seems to be focused on everything else.Maybe by the time he matures enough to come to training camp instead of training/partying at the U he'll reach his potential.

    Comments?
  2. CrazyCowboy

    CrazyCowboy Well-Known Member

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    I know one thing, glad we got ROY!
  3. Gryphon

    Gryphon Merge Ahead

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    I think that too many people get down on Roy when he gives up the big play. I think that it is the nature of the beast when you are a big hitter.
  4. SultanOfSix

    SultanOfSix Star Power

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    Why is this debate even given credence? It's purely one-sided, started by Redskins fans to elevate one of their players over one of ours to give them something to harp on. Taylor may be talented, but he's so out of position a lot of the times you have to wonder if he's being coached incorrectly, or is just not very smart. Plus, both of them play DIFFERENT positions, so why are they even being compared?
  5. Fletch

    Fletch To The Moon

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    One guy is saying they both lack in coverage. Well Roy's 5 INT's compared to zero INT's from Taylor is saying a lot. If I'm not mistaking, Sean Taylor is a FS who is suppose to cover more downfield compared to Roy at his SS position. :)
  6. MossBurner

    MossBurner New Member

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    There's an interesting article on ESPN.com right now that discusses at great length the disarray of the Washington defense. It places 99.9% of the blame on the secondary coaches and Gregg Williams. I think that is the opinion of Redskin nation, right now. And I think it is correct and justified.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=2672668

    To compare Cowboys stats to Redskins stats this season and attempt to draw a fair conclusion is ridiculous. The coaching in Washington this year is SO MESSED UP, fans are even starting to turn on Portis and Gibbbs. Changes are coming to personnel, staff, and hopefully to performance.
  7. MossBurner

    MossBurner New Member

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    Supposed to be, but doesn't. Sean is always making plays at the line - Sean has 70 tackles to Roy's 38. I wish those stats were reversed!

    I've seen every second of Redskins games for the past 20 years. NEVER have I seen a Redskins FS make so many plays on running backs and have ZERO opportunities for an interception.

    If Sean was transplanted to another team this year with an average scheme for his talents, he would be a leading candidate for DPOY, no question.
  8. Fletch

    Fletch To The Moon

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    How many of those 70 tackles are at the line of scrimmage, or in the opponent's backfield? I bet 75% of those 70 tackles that Sean made were in the secondary, meaning the RB, TE, or WR had already broke one off into the second level.

    When you see any position from the secondary having that many tackles, it's usually an indicator of inflated numbers due to the defensive line getting abused or missing assignments.
  9. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    And RW came in the league playing under Dave Campo. A good player is a good player.
  10. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    I think Roy's only major issue in coverage is that when he comes over in help, he sometimes doesn't recognize exactly where the ball is in the air. He's usually in the right spot to make a play but tends to lose track of the ball once it's up in the air. By no means or any way do I see Roy as being a liability or being bad in coverage when I chart the games. In fact, I usually find the opposite to be true. In fact, most of the times he looks bad it's usually the FS' fault or it was his responsibility, but another player's screwup helped put him in a poor position. I don't think I've ever seen a player get blamed for big plays when he's on the opposite side of the field as Roy does. He's a great player and most Dallas fans love him. Thus he gets the overrated label on him. But when NFL players were polled recently on who is the most overrated player in the NFL, guys like Owens and Urlacher's name came up, but Roy's did not.



    YAKUZA
  11. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    Uh...the entire point of the latest ESPN article was that the Skins have been playing a ton of Cover 2 since last season. Which means Sean is actually in a better position to make more interceptions as a safety than in a lot of coverage schemes.

    Taylor is a phenomenally athletic player, but I often find that the criticism directed towards Roy (goes for the kills shot, bites on play action too much, takes bad angles) far better describes Taylor's issues than Roy's.

    And the Cover 2 is an average NFL scheme if there ever was one.


    YAKUZA
  12. tunahelper

    tunahelper Active Member

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  13. DallasInDC

    DallasInDC Active Member

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    Here are the stats through their first 40 games:

    Stat.......RW...........ST
    Gms........40...........40
    Tot........ 218.........216
    Sck........6............2
    Int.........9............6
    TD......... 2............1
    Pdef.......14.........22
    FFs........ 7...........7
    FRec.......5..........1

    Total Stats and average per game

    GS Roy Williams.................Sean Taylor
    Total...Avg/Gm...........Total...Avg/Gm
    Gms............75..........................40
    Tot........ 384..5.12...............216.....5.4
    Sck....... 6.5...0.09................2.......0.05
    Int........ 17....0.23................6.......0.15
    TD......... 3.....0.04 ................1.......0.025
    Pdef...... 31...0.41................22......0.55
    FFs........ 9.....0.12...............7........0.175
    FRec...... 7....0.09................1........0.025

    Statistically there is no question who is better. The only stat that is missing is big plays/TDs given up. and I'm fairly confident that at worst there pretty even and most likely ST has given up more in his career. If you add what to the stats what the player brings to the team I would have to lean heavily towards RW. RW has made countless game changing plays that affected the outcome of the game. That is key in my opinion on what makes a player better.
  14. gbrittain

    gbrittain Well-Known Member

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    It is pretty funny to Skins fans turn on Gregg Williams. Last year it did not matter who was starting because good ole Gregg Williams will coach them up.

    I just wonder if Skin nation still believes that the best way to build a team is by trading premium picks on proven vets. HA HA.

    Those "proven vets" are really coming through for the Skins.

    I still can't believe that all the fans fell for that crap. I sure am glad that here on the zone that there has been plenty of questioning what has been going on. Right or wrong.

    Until this year if Gibbs said it, it was gospel.
  15. RW31

    RW31 Member

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    funny. 2 weeks ago roy williams was garbage according most of the fans in here and now because of that INT he's the best safety in the nfl again. talk about fair weather fans :rolleyes:
  16. gbrittain

    gbrittain Well-Known Member

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    Those who thought he was garbage probably still do.
  17. REDVOLUTION

    REDVOLUTION Return to Dominance

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    What? Sean Taylor wasnt buried with the rest of team a few weeks back?
  18. AdamJT13

    AdamJT13 Salary Cap Analyst

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    That's true. He rarely allows a big play in his primary coverage responsibility. That happens a lot for Davis and Watkins, but not for Roy. On the big plays when people try to blame Roy, it's almost always someone else who had primary responsibility and Roy who is the secondary help.
  19. AdamJT13

    AdamJT13 Salary Cap Analyst

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    Roy has tackled a running back four times for no gain four times, the same number as Taylor (even though Dallas' opponents have rushed 37 fewer times).

    Roy has tackled a running back in the backfield twice. Taylor has zero tackles for loss.

    So, when you're talking about "making plays at the line," Roy has the advantage despite fewer opportunities.

    Taylor, however, does have 10 tackles on runs of at least 10 yards. Roy has only two. That darn front seven keeps stealing his tackles.
  20. Kevin

    Kevin Redskins Fan

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    Roy is having a better year than Sean, no doubt about it.

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