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Sick of RGIII

Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by landroverking, Sep 2, 2013.

  1. Sonny#9

    Sonny#9 Well-Known Member

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    Forget it -- he is going to spin anything you say and reframe his argument time and time again to attempt to prove the Griffin is overrated. The crux of his arguments was "Rex Grossman wasn't that bad!" Which is laughable. No one can take that argument seriously.
  2. CowboyFan74

    CowboyFan74 Cowboys Analyst

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    -Yawn.. You're boring me kid...
  3. Blackspider214

    Blackspider214 Well-Known Member

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    Uhhh no. Peyton Manning has been to 2 Super Bowls and won 1 of them. 3 AFC title game appearances. Won 2 of those. Hardly not a "winner". You missed the point. It's not about the losing record in the playoffs. It's the fact that RG3 has played only one year and is 0-1 in the playoffs. He's not a "winner" yet. People need to tap the brakes.
    Reality likes this.
  4. Sonny#9

    Sonny#9 Well-Known Member

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    Fine...dispute it.

    I will, however, give you ample credit for using the proper contraction "you're."
  5. khiladi

    khiladi Well-Known Member

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    And RG threw the ball over sixty times more that RG3 in 2 less gas of the regular season and got about the same yardage, meaning Shanny wasn't attacking downfield with RG3 like he was with RG. Thus, it is only logical his INTs would go up. Sorry, you failed to address the point:

    Are you also going to argue that the Redskins were better off with Beck? I fail to see how any of you deal with this point. The Redskins were leading the division at 3-2 and they benched Grossman, for the bum Beck. 5-11 doesn't accurately take into account te utterly stupid decision by Shanny to bench RG3 in favor of Beck. In fact, he was getting a lot of pushto bench RG3 from many fans for Beck. That is reality. I live in DC and I know just as muc as any Redskins homer about what happened that season.
  6. khiladi

    khiladi Well-Known Member

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    The comments were about Ware supposedy not doing anything in that game. So if one argues that RG3 wasn't healthy, well guess what, either was Ware. Not only that, our starting LB core was out as well.
  7. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    Tim Tebow was called a "winner" before he ever took a snap in the NFL due to his National Championship win at Florida, his Heisman award and his leadership abilities. He made a huge name for himself due mostly to his intangibles that inspired a lot of people. He captivated the entire NFL world 2 years ago finding ways to win games in the most unorthodox way we've ever seen an NFL QB win games. He's a highly inaccurate passer with a quirky throwing motion and is only 8-6 as a starting NFL QB but was called a "winner." He's still one of the most talked about players in the game despite doing nothing last year and being currently out of work. NFL teams don't use multiple #1 picks and then some mortgaging their future on a college QB if they're not considered a "winner." RG3 accomplished enough before he ever reached the NFL to be considered a "winner." If being a "winner" is all about NFL championships then Dan Marino and Dan Fouts wouldn't be considered winners. Marino had mixed playoff success he was 8-10 and never won a SB.

    Fouts was 3-4 in the playoffs and he never even reached the SB. Peyton Manning has lost more playoff games than he's won and is batting 500 in the SB. The year Peyton won his only SB his TD to turnover ratio was 3-7 during the postseason and his passer rating was only 70.5. To put that in perspective Trent Dilfer had a TD to turnover ratio of 3-1 and a passer rating of 83.7 during the postseason the year he won his SB and Brad Johnson had a TD to turnover ratio of 5-3 and a passer rating of 79.9 during the postseason the year he won his SB. Peyton Manning is the QB he is today mostly due to his accomplishments during the regular season. He has a record 4 MVP awards and has won a lot of regular season games and division titles. He's put up some incredible numbers in the regular season and last night added a record 7 TD passes in one game to his resume. Some consider him the greatest QB of all-time due to his regular season performances and all the wins he has.

    You take away his regular season accomplishments and he wouldn't be considered the QB he is today. The regular season has to count for something it's the largest body of work a QB has on their resume and it's the biggest determining factor in a QB being voted into the HOF. RG3 has won a Heisman and an NFL rookie of the year award in back to back seasons. Those awards single out the player that had the greatest impact on their teams success. RG3 won an elimination game on one leg last season that led Washington to their first division title in 13 years. Had he been healthy Washington would have beaten Seattle in the playoffs. RG3 sucked it up and played hurt in several games last season. He sacrificed his body to make plays and based off what he's accomplished so far in his football career I consider him a "winner." Assuming you're a Cowboys fan do you consider Romo a winner?
  8. khiladi

    khiladi Well-Known Member

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    You also forgot to mention the fact that Garcon played only 14 games that year, while Decker played a full season. As an aside, that year Wayne had 111 catches. The only time Garcon played a full season was in 2011, when Manning was hurt and he caught 70 passes. And Wayne had 75 receptions that year. Additionally, Garcon was the primary target with the Redskins.

    In 2011, the last 2 games you are referring to as the 'reason' for benching the Redskins were 1-1. Against the Rams, the Redskins were up 17-0 going into the 4th, despite his 2 INTs (1 TD pass). The Redskins team also fumbled 3 times. I hardly call that a reason for benching RG. The Philly game, he had 4 INTs, but again, everybody knows that. The point was, they were 3-2 despite that. You don't look for a spark when your leading the division at 3-2. Agianst Miami, when RG came back they were well within the game 9-13 halfway into the 4th. He even had them in scoring range their final drive, which ended up in a missed field goal. But they were 3-5 by then. Against, the Cowboys he had a great game, and they were leading 24-17 going into the 4th. They missed a FG in OT. They then beat the Seahwks. And against the Jets, they were actually up 16-13 in the 4th.

    They killed their season by benching RG. They killed their season insertin Jeff Beck who wasn't even making them competitive. That 5-11 would, most likely, not been 5-11 had RG stayed the starting QB. Coupled by the fact that the NFC East was just horrid, who actually knows where they cou have been. They even beat the division leader Giants at 7-7 who had't even guaranteed a playoff spot and ended up winning the SB...
  9. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    It makes no difference that Garcon only played 14 games like I said he's just another receiver. When I said he was well down the list of free agent WR's you said that was laughable. I'm sure you stopped laughing once I provided poof. For being the primary target he should have been more productive even in 14 games. I expect RG3's rushing totals to go down this season and his passing yards to go up so we'll see how productive Garcon is in 2013. As long as Washington had Grossman at QB they weren't going anywhere. He started 13 games in 2011 and was 5-8. Washington's QB situation is what killed their season which is why they gave up the farm for RG3.
  10. DanteEXT

    DanteEXT Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it does matter if the player did not complete a full season when you are comparing his production to another player who did. Also, he wasn't the primary target in 2010 during those 14 games so I don't know where you are pulling that from.

    In the first link you provided 3 of the first 10 were either tendered or franchised by their existing team.

    Oh, here's one that has Garcon as the 5th: http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/12/top-10-wide-receivers-in-free-agency/?_r=0
    What does that mean? Nothing... they are opinions and that is all. Sorry, but the fact is that your links are not "poof" of anything. Here, I'll grab a random website quote and treat as indisputable 100% fact like you: "Another Colts receiver that is expected to be available is Pierre Garcon, he was the best receiver in Indianapolis with Peyton Manning injured the entire season. Garcon stepped up and kept the Colts from being just the second 0-16 team in history." See, without Garcon the Colts would have been 0-16 in 2011.
  11. CowboyFan74

    CowboyFan74 Cowboys Analyst

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    I'll let Ware dispute it for me. He's 100% healthy THIS season and he's going to have more opportunities to do what he does best...
  12. Sonny#9

    Sonny#9 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah...get mauled by Williams and frozen by the read option.
  13. AmberBeer

    AmberBeer Well-Known Member

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    He always brings new things up in debates to confuse the issue. He does this when he's losing the arguments. Which is basically all the time.
  14. CowboyFan74

    CowboyFan74 Cowboys Analyst

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    If Williams overpowers him (And at 6'5," 328 lbs its expected,) then he will use his speed to get around him after that fat tub of goo gets winded.

    And he won't freeze up in the read, he will just level the QB and snap him like a pretzel..

    DE's in a 4-3 don't have to worry about pass coverage, they just go straight for the QB and let the LB's and DB's shut down the rest of the field...
  15. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    You found one FA WR ranking that had Garcon 5th while most had him ranked outside the top 10. The consensus of all those rankings point to him being just another receiver. All rankings are based on opinion but Garcon's career numbers speak for themselves they're average. Neither Decker or Thomas ever sniffed 1000 yards until Manning showed up and they both had 1000 yard seasons in 2012. In 3 seasons with Peyton Manning as his QB Garcon only produced 1572 yards. As for the 2011 season if Garcon was all that valuable to the Colts he wouldn't have been allowed to walk after that season especially with a rookie QB taking over who needed WR threats. Even the Colts saw him as just another receiver.
  16. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    I bring things up that can be proven they're called "facts" while you make things up. The most obvious sign of someone losing an argument is when they make things up and call people names.
  17. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    If Garcon was the best receiver in Indy the Colts would have kept him and allowed Reggie Wayne to walk. Most of the free agent WR rankings had Wayne ranked #2 behind Vincent Jackson.
  18. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    One other point Garcon is 27 and Reggie Wayne is 34 that further tells you what Indy thought of Garcon.
  19. DanteEXT

    DanteEXT Well-Known Member

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    Yet inexplicably only 50% of the sites you linked to back up your claim. Personally, I only use "most" when it's more than half.

    Wayne: 3 years, $17.5 million
    Garcon: 5 years, $42.5 million
    2012 Colts Dead Money: $38,790,072

    Oh, and one other point. Wayne was the consolation prize in the FA sweepstakes. Indy had already lost Garcon to Washington.
  20. Sonny#9

    Sonny#9 Well-Known Member

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    That must be why
    This is my last post on this issue. You clearly don't know what you're talking about and are relying on homer drivel.

    Oh right--he'll just "hit the QB" what a brilliant solution. Why didn't D-coordinators who make millions think of a completely simple solution? Here's why--you may be familiar with this--Alfred Morris then gashes your defense for 200.

    And Williams is one of the best LTs in the league--dismissing him as a "tub of goo" really shows a lot. You do realize he hasn't had a sack against Williams in 2 years right? He didn't do squat last year and, in 2011, he needed to be moved over Tyler Polumbus because Williams was dominating him.

    And I love the injury excuse--newsflash--he wasn't the only injured player in the NFL last year. Williams and Griffin were both playing on 1 leg.

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