1. Welcome to CowboysZone!  Join us!  Come on!  You know you want to!

Stephen Jones: Jerry Jones still heavily involved in Dallas Cowboys’ personnel decisions

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by Alexander, Mar 21, 2014.

  1. FuzzyLumpkins

    FuzzyLumpkins The Boognish

    16,705 Messages
    2,560 Likes Received
    Al Davis relinquished no control up until the bitter end. Jones has already ceded much to his son. Looking to Davis' path only makes sense if you are into soap operas or other forms of fiction.
    rynochop and Nav22 like this.
  2. FuzzyLumpkins

    FuzzyLumpkins The Boognish

    16,705 Messages
    2,560 Likes Received
    Making up motivation and intent is fun. Making up interpersonal dynamics is even more fun. I hope you don't submit arguments that are story time like this.
  3. peplaw06

    peplaw06 That Guy

    13,686 Messages
    410 Likes Received
    Um, Jerry came out last year and said Shariff Floyd was number 6 on the team's board. And Jerry didn't take him. Jerry said DL was a strength of the team. And we proceeded to go through like 20 of them in 2013. You think whoever put the draft board together was in favor of skipping on a guy they had highly rated at an obvious area of need?
  4. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

    8,195 Messages
    2,598 Likes Received
    Ummmm source?
    You asked one of the other posters in this thread for a source so it is only fair you should provide one
  5. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

    8,195 Messages
    2,598 Likes Received
    That or the glass cleaner
  6. peplaw06

    peplaw06 That Guy

    13,686 Messages
    410 Likes Received
    I know you don't know how the legal system works, so let me break it down for you. There are usually few people who know exactly what happened in any given circumstance. Judges, jury, lawyers, none of them know exactly what happened. The only ones who do are eye-witnesses. Despite this fact, judges and juries make decisions in courts of law all the time. And lawyers make arguments from inferences made based on facts. They make arguments on motivation and intent based on facts.

    So disagree if you like, and back it up with facts if you like. But I don't have to prove beyond all FuzzyLumpkins doubts that a thing is true or not. Your simple dismissal of an argument simply because the person making the argument isn't in the room is just intellectual laziness. And coming from you, it's rather ironic, considering your love of SCIENCE!!
  7. FuzzyLumpkins

    FuzzyLumpkins The Boognish

    16,705 Messages
    2,560 Likes Received
    I know the legal system works such that if you make the claim that you back it up. Presumption is what it is. I don't have to prove you wrong, I just have to point out that you have not proven what you claim. That is my entire point, you don't present facts. You make baseless assertions that read like AM radio narrative regurgitation.

    Please give evidence that "Jerry cannot watch film." We should just discount this as hyperbole. Fronting about 'how the legal system works" is fun but characterizations such as that are garbage and you know it.

    Please give evidence that Jerry has his son negotiate contracts "so he can have something to do." More flippant nonsense.

    Please give evidence that in his deliberations that Jones chose the 'loudest voice in the room.' Gratuitous characterization but volume is an objective standard to measure. Prove it.

    I would like for once to see you make a decent argument. Just once.
    skinsscalper and Nav22 like this.
  8. Nav22

    Nav22 Well-Known Member

    5,501 Messages
    1,178 Likes Received
    1) Frederick and Williams >>> Floyd. Whatever transpired in the 2013 draft was a blessing in disguise.
    2) "Jerry didn't take him"... why didn't he take him, peplaw06? I noticed you conveniently left that part out.

    Here's why you left it out:

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/da...an-do-to-avoid-2013-s-draft-day-confusion.ece
    It’s why the Cowboys’ scouts ranked him fifth on the draft board, which was inadvertently leaked the following month. But the defensive coaches, particularly current coordinator Rod Marinelli, had a different impression of Floyd. They questioned whether he had the quick-twitch quality needed to rush the passer consistently.
    Floyd collected only 4½ sacks in his career with the Gators, and the Cowboys needed high production from their under tackle — a premium position in the 4-3 scheme the team began installing in 2013. But the reservations Marinelli had about Floyd weren’t conveyed to the scouts. Apparently, neither was the profile of the ideal defensive lineman he wanted in this new system the Cowboys had just adopted.
    “I felt like we had him graded right, yes,” Jones said. “Did we have him graded right for our system? That’s debatable.”


    So while Jerry went against his scouts' wishes, he did so because of the defensive coaching staff's objections. It wasn't the dictatorial decision you tried to paint it as.

    By the way, you should have a LOT more evidence than just one example, anyways. For someone who's certain that Jerry is a certain way, you should have boatloads of these examples. I'm still all ears.
  9. Nav22

    Nav22 Well-Known Member

    5,501 Messages
    1,178 Likes Received
    Do yourself a favor and google "burden of proof."
  10. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

    8,195 Messages
    2,598 Likes Received
    You made a claim:

    Nav22:
    "Um, except he generally DOESN'T overrule the coaching staff or scouting department,......"


    now you get to back it up by providing a source as you asked the other poster or admit that you were making it up

    the "burden of proof" is on you

    ouch!

    do yourself a favor and google "owned"
  11. Nav22

    Nav22 Well-Known Member

    5,501 Messages
    1,178 Likes Received
    You're embarrassing yourself.

    Person A: "You stole my wallet!" (claim)

    Person B: "No, I didn't steal your wallet." (claim)

    They both made claims. Is the burden of proof on Person A or Person B?

    Google "GED" next.
  12. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

    8,195 Messages
    2,598 Likes Received
    So, no source ?
    Thought so

    BTW, I think uncle Jerry is calling
  13. dcstands4

    dcstands4 Active Member

    653 Messages
    98 Likes Received
    WHAT the owner of the team is making personnel decisions how dare him
  14. peplaw06

    peplaw06 That Guy

    13,686 Messages
    410 Likes Received
    The dysfunction in the front office could have led to a more likeable result. I suspect we won't know that for some years to come. But it's really beside the point of the discussion.
    Thanks for making my point for me. I left it out, because I assumed it was common knowledge. I didn't think I had to hold your hand and walk you through what happened. I guess I was right on that, you can walk on your own.

    Oh, there's a LOT more evidence. Too many examples to list without taking this thread totally off the rails. Floyd just happened to be an example from the most recent draft. How about Escobar? You think Jerry was "being advised" that we needed to spend a 2nd rounder on a TE who couldn't block and would hardly see the field in his first season? Did you notice the rush to say Escobar was a "Romo approved choice"?

    How about Monte Kiffin? The idea to go get him came from Lacewell. Sure Garrett said he was on board after the fact. But we all know the head coach didn't have the autonomy to choose who he wanted to be the defensive coordinator on what is supposed to be his staff.

    I mean all these things happened in the past 12 months, and this is just scratching the surface really. This really isn't even debatable.
  15. dreghorn2

    dreghorn2 Well-Known Member

    1,116 Messages
    191 Likes Received
    I'm still having a laugh at our offensive innovator head coach who is now going to be focusing all his energies on our defense.

    But he does have a high tolerance for ambiguity so that is a positive.
  16. peplaw06

    peplaw06 That Guy

    13,686 Messages
    410 Likes Received
    The facts have been presented ad nauseum. It's not my fault if you haven't been paying attention. I'm not going to post a dissertation every time I decide to jump in here.

    *sigh*

    You and Nav22 sure do ask for a lot of hand holding.

    Nav22 made the assertion that he doesn't watch film, and it seems to be common knowledge that he doesn't watch film. Before he bought the team and installed himself as the GM of the team, he worked in the oil & gas business for decades. He wasn't in the football biz, and he wasn't breaking down film then. He wasn't a scout who was trained in film scouting and worked his way through the league. You see, those would be considered the facts. The assertion, Jerry can't watch film, is an assertion made from an inference based on the facts. And I suspect you may need to look up the definition of the word "hyperbole." It's not an exaggeration that Jerry literally does not and cannot break down film on a draft prospect.

    It's not fronting. I literally think you do not know how it works, based on the fact that you continually demand air-tight eye-witness testimony from people who take a position that you happen to disagree with. Then you allude to my profession, and take the veiled shot that you hope I submit better arguments when I'm doing my job. Well, if what you expect is "prove it to me beyond a shadow of a doubt," then you should prepare to be disappointed, cause it doesn't work that way.

    Again, there appears to be a common acceptance of the fact that Stephen negotiates the contracts. Is it controversial to say that people who do a job do them so they have something to do?

    Nevermind Fuzzy... he chooses the smartest voice in the room. There, that better?

    Flippant nonsense.

    Based on your statements in this thread and others (the facts), you don't know what a decent argument looks like. I'm going to go ahead and infer that the reason you don't is one of two things... 1) You really are as daft as you come off when you claim that arguments contrary to your position must be proven beyond all shadow of Fuzzy doubts, or 2) You aren't daft at all. You just don't have a way to dispute the arguments that are being made against GM Jones, because the mountain of evidence against him is so daunting. So you just dismiss the arguments outright, because "hey, no one knows for sure."

    At the moment, I kind of lean toward option 2... but I've been wrong before.

    So while you may technically be correct -- no one knows for sure -- it doesn't really offer anything to the debate; it's just intellectually lazy. Sticking your fingers in your ears and crying "prove it" isn't particularly impressive.
  17. peplaw06

    peplaw06 That Guy

    13,686 Messages
    410 Likes Received
    hahaha... Somewhat conveniently, this article hit the press yesterday...

    See thread by RisenStar here.

    See article here.

    Quotes from Jerry...

    Sounds like he needs some hand holding on even watching film.

    Even the guy making the decisions doesn't know which voice he chooses. Awesome.
    Risen Star likes this.
  18. Nav22

    Nav22 Well-Known Member

    5,501 Messages
    1,178 Likes Received
    Hahahaha so Jerry saying that Romo approved of the Escobar pick... is your proof that Jerry made the pick without any sort of approval from scouts/coaches? Hilarious.

    Where did the scouts have him on the draft board? What did the coaching staff think of him prior to the draft?

    See, those questions above need an answer before you can make such a claim. Since you've provided absolutely nothing to answer those questions, I'll assume you don't have those answers.

    And psst... A draft pick being "Romo-approved" doesn't necessarily mean that nobody else approved it. I'm so very sorry that you needed someone to point that out for you.

    Oh, but let me guess: this is just another example of me needing my hand held and if I can't figure out that Jerry saying the Escobar pick was Romo-approved ALSO means that nobody else on Earth approved it, then that's MY problem!
  19. peplaw06

    peplaw06 That Guy

    13,686 Messages
    410 Likes Received
    So when Escobar was on the board in the second round Friday and the talked turned to taking him with the blank overall pick, Jones demanded that his coaches agree that they will change the offense to feature both Witten and Escobar.

    "You saw him coming," Jones recalled is conversations in the Cowboys war room. "No are we all resolved to doing it different relative to injecting that influence in this offense? Don't come in here with same old same old."

    Jones continued: "I took a roll call and said if we got this route with the tight end we are going to shake it up around here relative to what we are doing. It's going to be different. I joked we are going to pass the paper around and we are all going to sign it. We are going to be different."


    Read more here: http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.co...-they-change-o-for-escobar.html#storylink=cpy


    Clearly the coaching staff thought so much of him that Jones was talking about circulating a memo around the table for everyone to sign saying they would get him involved. That worked out well.

    But you're just gonna ignore it I bet. Or maybe say it's no big deal.

    How bout Terrell Owens? Roy Williams? Joey Galloway? notice you didn't have a take on Kiffin... Come on, explain em all away.
  20. Corso

    Corso Well-Known Member

    2,425 Messages
    1,603 Likes Received
    Good Lord- what a way to run a War Room.
    Like a mom telling her kids she'll get them a McDonald's soft serve cone if they shut the heck up for the rest of the ride.
    After they're done eating their cones, the shut up effectively ends...

Share This Page