News: Sturm good read The defensive front: A difference in philosophy

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by RS12, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. RS12

    RS12 Well-Known Member

    21,703 Messages
    8,800 Likes Received
    January 9, 2012

    It is extremely difficult to watch the NFL playoffs a week after the Dallas Cowboys crash-and-burn routine ended without thinking about them at every turn. Here is a former Cowboys player, and here is a former Cowboys coach. Over here is another QB who has pulled even with Tony Romo for career playoff wins (TJ Yates) and then the next day, here is another QB who has pulled even with Tony Romo for career playoff wins (Tim Tebow).

    But, no game makes you think about the Cowboys all afternoon quite like watching the New York Giants.

    Not only because of the way they dismissed the Cowboys from the 2011 season, but because they are rivals. There is venom. There is jealousy. And there is a distinct difference in philosophy about how to build a playoff-ready power.

    We can certainly go on and on about how Ernie Accorsi and Jerry Reese see football differently than Jerry Jones in many regards, but let's stick to what jumps off the screen when you flip on the Giants this time of year.
  2. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

    41,907 Messages
    28,423 Likes Received
    Seeing Chris Canty applying pressure in passing situations and being a rock on short yardage was pretty hard to watch.

    His contract was high, but it seems he is starting to earn it. Meanwhile the Olshanskys of the world are gone and the Kenyon Colemans are not far behind.
  3. burmafrd

    burmafrd Benched

    43,820 Messages
    3,379 Likes Received
    there is NO way Canty deserves the money he is making. Jerruh was absolutely right to let him go.
  4. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

    41,907 Messages
    28,423 Likes Received
    And we probably will be saying the same thing about Stephen Bowen in a few years.

    As much as we want to praise Jones for not paying the farm, we have to consider how not prudently spending your money is the issue. Had we not extended aging players with but a few years of serviceable life left (Newman, Gurode, Colombo, Davis) we could have paid Canty what the market dictated and still have a player with prime years left.
  5. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

    31,541 Messages
    15,596 Likes Received
    Canty was good, but I don't think he'll ever prove worthy of what the Giants paid.

    I think the Cowboys have room for improvement, but I would consider the Giants' investment of money and draft picks to border on excessive.

    And where was all of this talent all season long?

    It's not like they've had a dominating defense all season.
  6. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

    28,560 Messages
    3,116 Likes Received
    I don't know that Canty is worth that money.

    What is clear is that if you have a bunch of really good DL they will make each other better.
  7. EGG

    EGG Well-Known Member

    6,578 Messages
    2,595 Likes Received
    The fact that the Giants are willing to devote a higher percentage of their cap in order to field a physically dominant team with a strong DL is the reason they are usually contenders and it's a BIG reason they beat the 2007 Cowboys and then Brady and his perfect Patriots in the Superbowl.

    Maybe Canty was overpaid, but I seriously doubt the Giants care, that was the price of admission to maintain a strong group and Jerry Jones needs to start devoting more of his drafts and cap space to the trenches or his team will be forever punked by the Giants.
  8. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

    11,569 Messages
    6,500 Likes Received

    would you, all of us, and JJ consider it worth it if we were in the playoffs this year?

    i think the answer to that would be yes
  9. Zimmy Lives

    Zimmy Lives Well-Known Member

    8,532 Messages
    3,499 Likes Received
    I think that the Cowboys might have tried to keep Canty if they played the 4-3. He is much more solid as a tackle in the Giants defense than he ever was as a Cowboy end.
  10. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Well-Known Member

    3,551 Messages
    1,783 Likes Received
    I think a main (if understated) point from the excellent article, is that the Giants have a plan or philosophy. Accorssi, and now, Reese work toward executing that plan as GMs knowing that the Coaching staff wants those types of players and also knows what to do with them when they get them.

    This type of system allows a team to take a macro view of free agencey and make consistent choices in terms of personal fitting scheme.

    Dallas does not have much of a plan nor any sort of macro view of anything. Red is having to push his version of a plan back up the food chain but that doesnt deal with the macro view of things.

    A clear example is having 4 RBs to start the season and go short elsewhere. 8 weeks later, there isnt a healthy RB to be found. Its a see-saw of micro problem solving that passes as a front office in Dallas.
  11. bbailey423

    bbailey423 Well-Known Member

    5,930 Messages
    1,938 Likes Received
    the writer could have written the same article about their OL! Eli dropped back like 105 straight times to pass the ball against Dallas without getting touched!
  12. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

    12,821 Messages
    496 Likes Received
    But no one on this board agrees with this philosophy.

    For example, most of the board is happy to give Laurent Robinson a premium contract even though he is our 4th receiving option. The Giants would just let him go and try to find a cheaper replacement while they continue to build their OL, DL and secondary. If you look at their roster very little resources are allocated to WR, RB and TE compared to us. This is why we fail. I don't entirely blame Jerry as this is what the fanbase wants.

    We really need to avoid a bidding war for Robinson. Jerry made a mistake by not offering him a larger contract or a deal that could be extended mid-season.

    We need to strengthen our OL, DL and secondary to compete and that is where we have to start spending resources in the draft and FA.
  13. burmafrd

    burmafrd Benched

    43,820 Messages
    3,379 Likes Received
    The market will bear? One owner throws a lot of stupid money at someone and that is the market? Wrong. Market is multiple offers for around the same amount of money. Canty is WAY over paid. Not even close to earning what he is getting.
  14. Aven8

    Aven8 Well-Known Member

    9,679 Messages
    7,283 Likes Received
    I'm still trying to figure out why we extended Witten and Rat when they were still under there curremt deals?

    Witten had NO idea what he was being called in for and next thing he knows he is signing a big contract. (True story)

    It just doesn't make sense what we do with players!
  15. TheFinisher

    TheFinisher Well-Known Member

    3,339 Messages
    2,202 Likes Received
    Good read, your front is the foundation of your defense. Until we start investing some resources into that pool (and hit on them) we'll continue to be searching for answers in January.
  16. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

    31,541 Messages
    15,596 Likes Received
    I honestly don't know if I can say 'Yes' for sure.

    There's a part of me that is actually glad that this flawed team isn't still in the hunt, perpetrating a myth and giving folks like Jerry Jones the false sense that his 'creation' is better than it really is.

    I'm not absolving the Cowboys of mistakes (for sure!), but I'm not sure that defensive line completely covers it.

    I think we can point to holes on the offensive line as well as bad investments in the secondary as valid reasons as well.
  17. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

    11,569 Messages
    6,500 Likes Received
    you and i are on the same page there

    DL alone definitely does not cover it

    our priorities for upgrade should be:

    1) OL
    2) front 7 (including DL and edge rusher)
    3) secondary

    i was referencing DL in the context that for a 4-3 team like NYG, DL is a huge piece of the puzzle in terms of pressuring the QB and the giants have focused on it

    we need to devote more resources to our front 7 as well
  18. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

    31,541 Messages
    15,596 Likes Received
    I certainly will not disagree with you there.

    I'm wondering if maybe we can't pull a 'two-fer' and strengthen our front 7 while weakening the Giants at the same time?
  19. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

    18,334 Messages
    79 Likes Received
    The Giants load up on pressure players. Whether they overpay for one guy is rather irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, as long as they reach the cumulative effect of having a great pass rushing collective unit. It's the same thing with drafting players ... they'll have a bust like Jay Alford, but they're going to throw so many numbers at it they're still end up okay.

    Meanwhile, we collect players who "do everything well but rush the passer". No doubt Spencer will get his extension, just like Marcus Spears did. We haven't spent a high pick pick on a DL in 5 drafts and no one seems that concered with it. Even now people are wanting to take interior offensive linemen over defensive pressure players, after we took a OL top ten just a year before. When people do talk about adding a defensive front 7 player they want a big fat tub of goo in the middle, because they're enamored with Jay Ratliff's size more than anything else in the entire universe. Then we wonder why we have no pass rush. Neither Jerry nor his fans seem to think it's very important.
  20. newnationcb

    newnationcb Well-Known Member

    2,780 Messages
    570 Likes Received
    This same ferocious D-line missed the playoffs the last 3 years right? After their booming inauguration in 2007 right?

    Oh my, this live in the moment world!

Share This Page