Sturm: Josh Brent, lack of NT is reason for Sunday failure to stop run

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by WoodysGirl, Jan 3, 2013.


    PJTHEDOORS Well-Known Member

    8,898 Messages
    6,705 Likes Received
    So no Ratliff and no Josh Brent next year. With a starting DL of Hatcher, Lissemore and Crawford. I'm guessing opposing teams with make our DL the 31st ranked run defense.
  2. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

    38,995 Messages
    46,830 Likes Received
    Both lines are in sorry shape.

    If I had to choose one or the other, since you can't do everything in one offseason, I'll choose the OL. Let's protect what's left of our franchise QB.
  3. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

    22,950 Messages
    3,541 Likes Received
    Sturm writes great articles but he also misses the forest for the trees at times.

    He has been on a depth kick with this team for a few years. And he has at a semblance of a point. BUT it seeps deeply into his writing.

    When you sign a street free agent making 950k this year versus a guy you kept out of camp at 450k it doesnt mean you left camp thinking your guy was better. It means in this cap era you can't always have the most talented available players on a roster.

    Kyle Wilber was hurt in TC and early in the year. Would you like that guy to play at ILB once both starters go down with injuries? Absolutely. But you know he was an OLB in college and is a rookie that missed time learning the system. For you he is a rookie special teamer with potential going forward.

    Wilber isn't an indictment on roster building at all. If it is then Dallas was stupid for keeping Sean Lee and Bruce Carter as rookies as well....

    For Dallas to have better depth they must continue to draft well. The depth this year was actually QUITE improved. We lost Sean Lee and Bruce Carter became a dominant ILB. We lost Ratliff and Josh Brent was a quite good run stuffing NT. Mo is hurt and we plug in Mike Jenkins who was every bit as good this season. Scandrick goes down and Jenkins moves to the slot and is more than adequate there. Lose Costa and we struggle a bit at OC but end yup with Ryan Cook filling in adequately there. Adequately enough to go into next year as quality depth.

    Dallas was woefully short at Safety. Church was hurt right out of the gates and we also never had Matt Johnson. Apparently those were the two most talented guys we had. Danny McCray was always seen as a special teamer and nickel LB.
    Interior OL. We knew we were not deep there. And we knew we weren't going to be good there. We were merely trying to get by. Again you don't get to field all the talent you want in the salary cap era.

    So let's talk two examples Sturm uses:
    GB wins SB with 16 on IL.... 1st GB did a lot of what Dallas did. They cruised along as playoff long shots all year but unlike Dallas, found a way to get in a 6 seed. I'd argue that is largely because Aaron Rodgers is simply a better QB than Romo. Not that Romo sucks but that Rodgers may be the best player at the position at this moment. But I'd also note many of those 16 players for GB never returned and if they did never returned as starters. I think it is pretty clear this Dallas team suffered more major losses than that GB team by year's end. Especially when you factor in Ware was really an IL guy by the end. Sean Lee, DeMarcus Ware and Jay Ratliff.... boys and girls that is your Pro Bowl defensive starters if everyone is healthy. But to add to the degree of difficulty let's also mix in CB2 being banged up and your two break out defensive players: Spencer, Carter. Plus the weakest position on defense was clearly Safety. But you spend all off-season looking and watching a kid develop into a starter for you and then bam you lose him for the entire year. at a Holy Cheese whiz. That is a lot to overcome. Some teams may well have done so but to expect teams can do so is a little daft imho.

    San Francisco. This is a team starting Randy Moss. They also lost 1 DL (who happens to be as good as Jay Ratliff) and the entire defense has looked fairly mediocre since then. I certainly grant that the young QB looks good and provided plenty of spark all while tailing off a bit lately. But if they fail again in the playoffs early they'll wonder why. No one will excited about the depth then will they? The 49ers spent a lot of years as a bad team. They are loaded with first and second round draft picks everywhere. But those guys eventually get big contracts.

    PJTHEDOORS Well-Known Member

    8,898 Messages
    6,705 Likes Received
    Depends when we pick, what position has a higher grade. If OL, then yes, if DL, then go that way.
  5. Shinywalrus

    Shinywalrus Active Member

    1,747 Messages
    10 Likes Received
    Who at nose tackle was perpetually injured in college? What straw man are you creating here?
  6. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

    22,950 Messages
    3,541 Likes Received
    Both OLs are not in sorry shape for 2013. We have exactly 0 coveted guys hit FA.

    They both finished 2012 in bad shape. That can happen with injuries. Dallas lost its best run stuffing DE in Coleman, it's best overall DL in Ratliff and its best run stuffing big in Brent. That's a lot to lose on a 3 man line. So it sucked week 17 to be sure.

    The OL went between mediocre and terrible. The rotation of Parnell and Free improved them to just bad by season's end. With Costa they were mediocre and actually dominated Baltimore.

    Going into 2013 you have to make a move for a NT IF you actually lose both Brent and Ratliff. But nothing is set in stone for either yet.

    Brent: He will have a mandatory 120 days in jail. He could certainly get some type of probated sentence as he doesn't appear to have ever been in legal trouble int he state of Texas. Depending upon when that starts and time served he could actually play some in 2013. Guessing he'd be suspended by the league at least 8 games. And in truth there is a good chance he simply misses 2013. But I think it is way too early to assume his career is finished.

    Ratliff: Doesn't seem like a RKoG. Especially with Ware bagging on him as moody. But not sure that means you cut ties for that just yet. He may well be a 2014 move. Ratliff is probably a little crazy but he also gives you JJ Watt/Geno Smith style penetration (tho not as consistently) and is the only guy we have that does that.

    OL: I don't think any team in football would panic with a 2 deep at OC for Costa/Cook.
    OG is worrisome to be sure. Bern is a decent 3rd OC/OG. Livings is a solid/fair 2nd OG. But we clearly lack a lead OG. Not as big a deal as made out on these boards but certainly an area we grab a player if we can get value.
    OT: Best way to move here is almost certainly to release Free and reinvest that savings along the OL. You'd LOVE to get a great draft value in rounds 1 or 2 here but you can' reach for a guy that is no better than Doug Free just to plug a name in. Parnell could start at RT for a year. If you don't find a talent that supercedes him day 1 you need decide what value you place on drafting a 3rd OT behind two young guys.

    I do think we need to add talent to the trenches AND depth. But the nuts on this board would have us draft 6 big uglies then wonder why 5 of our draft picks were inactive every week. The best OL are ones that play for years together. Rookies aren't always great impacts right away: as we see with Tyron Smith. Teams like SF built a solid OL but they also lost for the first couple years of doing it. You don't get a large immediate investment when you draft OL.

    So you may well look at another Nate Livings type signing. A guy to get you by without wowing anyone. Someone who is bang for the buck but definitely not a luxury item. But someone who is better year one than say a rookie 3rd round OG. If Arkin as is bustish as he looks you may well need to back that signing up with the 3rd round OG anyways.
  7. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

    22,950 Messages
    3,541 Likes Received
    he's arguing the goofball argument that taking ratliff and brent in 7th rounds was somehow bad. as bad as drafting leon lett and michael irvin apparently.
  8. mgcowboy

    mgcowboy Well-Known Member

    2,588 Messages
    971 Likes Received
    Doesn't matter that much....we DID held them to 21 points and what you know...the guy the whole organization it stuck with and the owner is firing and releasing everybody to baby sit him screw it all

  9. links18

    links18 Well-Known Member

    13,352 Messages
    4,907 Likes Received
    The 'Skins scored 28 points with less than 90 yards passing. Defense was like a sieve against the run and could not figure out how to stop the read option. They deserve their share of the blame also.
  10. silver

    silver Well-Known Member

    6,405 Messages
    1,097 Likes Received
    Maybe, and I'm speculating here, a large number of the players have a drinking problem. The night of the Jerry Brown accident reportedly a bunch of players were partying a couple of days before the Cincy game. How can they be partying that hard, as evidently they were, when they should be in their top shape. All the injuries like hamstrings and wearing down at the end of the year, being unable to finish games might be related to not being in top shape and might be alcohol related.

    it seems we do too much of :beer1: :beer2: :cheers: and not enough of :whip:
  11. Double Trouble

    Double Trouble Well-Known Member

    8,755 Messages
    629 Likes Received
    No straw men necessary. Was referring to the excuses in general.

    Can't draft troublemakers, count on them, then act like its bad luck when they get in trouble. Same with signing troubled free agents. Or playing defensive ends at nose tackle then acting like it's bad luck when, surprise, they're worn out at an early age. Or draft constantly hurt ILBs, and once again, be shocked when they're hurt.
  12. links18

    links18 Well-Known Member

    13,352 Messages
    4,907 Likes Received
    I doubt Brent was the only one who drove home drunk that night.....
  13. silver

    silver Well-Known Member

    6,405 Messages
    1,097 Likes Received
    or fail to draft a Center or Guard in the 1st three rounds and scratch your head when your undrafted free agents don't develop. Same with drafting complementary RB's in the first round and be surprised he cant be relied to carry the load. It's like our retirement strategy it buy scratch lottery tickets. like the kid in the ad says: look at my shocked face
  14. Zordon

    Zordon Well-Known Member

    14,248 Messages
    14,317 Likes Received
    They had them at 21 pts with 3 minutes to play. Let's be real, if I gave you that before the game you would have taken it. Rob Ryan made a conscious decision to take away the pass/big play from RG3. It worked. There were very little demoralizing explosive plays bc our safeties were playing back all game. With Brady freaking Poppinga and other scrubs playing significant minutes I expected 35+ pts from the skins this game. On the other hand the offense has had one signficant season long injury, costa, which they adjusted to. Receivers were healthy, QB was healthy, Oline was healthy and RBs were healthy. They don't click like they've done all season, romo turns into a midget, and red forgets what a screen pass is. Jason and Romo knew before the game there was pressure on their side of the ball to play well bc of the lack able bodies on defense. They failed us.
  15. dexternjack

    dexternjack World Traveler

    12,388 Messages
    7,344 Likes Received
    Enough said right there. The defense held them to 21 and gave the off the ball with a chance to win. As far as I'm concerned, they did their job and the offense failed yet again. Defense was a MASH unit, the offense was healthy, no excuses.
  16. Shinywalrus

    Shinywalrus Active Member

    1,747 Messages
    10 Likes Received
    I just think there's a lot of confirmation bias in what you're observing. I think the truth is, if you look around, that the Cowboys have roughly the same number of "troublemakers" as any other team in the league, and perhaps less given some of the changes in the last couple years. Likewise, until the last year or two, the Cowboys have been well above the league average in terms of player health.

    Barry Church was a four year starter at Toledo who was healthy for practically his entire tenure with the Cowboys before going on IR.

    Jay Ratliff was consistently healthy throughout college and prior to being injured this season, played 300 more snaps than any other Cowboys DL in 2011, roughly 200 more than any other Cowboys DL in 2010, roughly 200 more than any other Cowboys DL in 2009 and even a few more than runner-up Chris Canty in 2008.

    Phil Costa did not miss a SINGLE game in his college career and missed only part of a single game in his first year as a starter before suffering his injury this season.

    Orlando Scandrick started 38 of 39 games in college. He was available for essentially all the games in 2008, 2009 and 2010 before missing some to start the season in 2011.

    In case it's not clear to anyone, here's what you're doing: you're looking at Sean Lee and Bruce Carter and making a broad, sweeping generalization about the Cowboys when, frankly, they are the two cases that really fit your example. Second, you're looking at Josh Brent and making a sweeping generalization when he's the only player who really fits your example.
  17. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

    119,480 Messages
    4,173 Likes Received
    Jesse Williams or John Jenkins...come on down. You're the first round pick of the Dallas Cowboys.
  18. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

    27,266 Messages
    18,297 Likes Received
    Yep, Knighton in FA and Brandon Williams in the 4th. No need to go overboard on resources at NT.

    They only play a true 3-4 about half the snaps and sometimes less. Even then, they often rotate NTs.

    On the other hand, an offensive lineman normally plays 100% of the offensive snaps.
  19. links18

    links18 Well-Known Member

    13,352 Messages
    4,907 Likes Received
    Nobody is arguing with you about the offense......
  20. burmafrd

    burmafrd Benched

    43,820 Messages
    3,379 Likes Received
    and you are ignoring the FACT that a primary reason we got Brent is other teams worried about his drinking in college. Guess what happened to him?

    Lee and Carter were injured in college and have been injured in the Pros. Once again taking a risk and its so far not looking good.

    Now if you pass on players injured in college and known for drinking, you could have 3 slots that were not empty when needed.

Share This Page