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Theology Continued

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Mike 1967, Mar 24, 2005.

  1. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Backwoods Sexy Staff Member

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    Beyond the theme of one has to have faith of the history Idea.....you bring up a good point IMO.

    It would be very hard to try and be objective if someone that does not believe does a study on religion or if a person that does believe does a study on religion.

    I would think that no matter how objective you are, you would still tend to lean to one side on the topic and or research.

    Now I would also think that there might be those few that once doing the research and speaking with people that they may even change their view point 100% and become what they were not in the start. Say an aethiest becomes christian, or a christain becomes aethiest....but I would imagine the majority of the time a non believer will have a slant to his research, just as a believer will have a slant to his.

    I think that would be just natural.

    So many of these articles used, pro or con, have to be taken with that in mind.
  2. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Backwoods Sexy Staff Member

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    No Calvin.....and Hobbs....

    [IMG]


    Ok...I admit that was lame. :)
  3. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal Insulin Beware

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    How 'bout Hobbes? (God, I'm cheesy...)
  4. naved

    naved New Member

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    It would not be right to pull out ideas and put them out of context here. The article deals with the origins & history of scripture & is presented as would be a research paper. I posted it not to support an argument and elicit responses but as research for those that believe strongly that there is good scientific evidence supporting the divinity of the Bible.

    This debate for me has never been about the validity of religious beliefs. I have already arrived at my own belief system that rejects Christianity as God's religion. I don't wish to impose that on anyone. Nor do I wish to debate it, because such a debate is pointless. This debate has been more to understand why people believe as opposed to what they believe.
  5. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal Insulin Beware

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  6. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Backwoods Sexy Staff Member

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    I am...but at least I provided a picture.


    ....


    Back...back to the house of pain. :p:
  7. Mike 1967

    Mike 1967 New Member

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    I can personally appreciate your comments here.

    - I was raised an agnostic and totally believed it (oxi-moron :D )
    - If this were 15 years ago I would be debating on the other side of this argument
    - I was converted
    - I began to research the other side....at first with some trepidation because of what I might find.
    - The more I searched the more confident I became of the faith in my heart

    I also firmly stood against Pre-destination until fairly recently. But I was forced to that position by the weight of scripture. My presupposed bias fought against it....but in the end I gave out to scripture.

    I do not believe that all of my positions are accurate. My stance is that I will always attempt to remain open to what the scripture states. If someone points out truth in scripture that shows an error in what I believe...then I will bow to the scripture.

    -----

    I am just sharing this with you. I obviously do not expect it to mean much to you because you have already stated that you don't hold the Scriptures to be "God Breathed".

    I am sharing this with you because it fits the over arching context of the point that you are making regarding bias.
  8. Mike 1967

    Mike 1967 New Member

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    Yes..I have read Calvin and Hobbes :D I like his work.

    been many years since I have read his stuff though
  9. Mike 1967

    Mike 1967 New Member

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    Fair enough

    FYI - I have books comprising hundreds upon hundreds of pages of research that provide historical evidence for the Bible (And no...I am not including Stroebels work)
  10. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Backwoods Sexy Staff Member

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    I don't mind if you share...you are an ok guy from my exp with you, we just see things different concerning religion.

    Funny thing is nobody in my family , except my great grandmother and my cousin, went to church....they were never people that questioned the bible or anything of that nature...just agnostic I guess but they would not consider themselves even that.

    Anyways the odd thing is that both my cousin and I would go to these different churches on our own, not from pressure to do it because it was family ways (similar maybe to your exp I guess). But I went to many different types of christian denominations as a young person.

    However I grew out of it later when I kept finding things that I felt contradicted itself or some things that I just could not find a way to justify while saying another is wrong.....hard to describe.

    But it is ok to share...we may never have the same views, does not mean we can not share stories or ideas. :cool:
  11. Mike 1967

    Mike 1967 New Member

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    Hmmm...if you think such debate is pointless, then I am curious as to how you "arrived at (your) own belief system that rejects Christianity and God's religion".

    Debate is to consider and deliberate something.

    Did you not consider and deliberate information or facts or evidence in order to reach the destination point that you arrived at ?
  12. Mike 1967

    Mike 1967 New Member

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    I understand this too.

    I have yet to find a church that I 100% agree with. Every church I have found (like men) seem to have pre-suppositions that they bring to the table. They will then twist scripture to match those pre-suppositions. Alas...man is imperfect.

    If my faith depended upon the witness of todays church....then it would not exist.
  13. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Backwoods Sexy Staff Member

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    Maybe he means he finds it pointless to debate those who DO find christianity and the bible as the right way, when he himself does not.

    I mean in the end it really is pointless to debate each other....I do it because it is kind of fun and it makes the time pass by, but at the end I know I will not change my mind and I will not changes others in this area.

    I think that is just what he is saying.
  14. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal Insulin Beware

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    As I am still a young person, I have decided upon nothing (something that REALLY pisses off my philosophy professors....oh well.) Perhaps I will come to a conclusion, or accept faith into my ideology, but not until I have a more thorough understanding of theology, and not only that of Christianity.

    Hopefully, the True Deity will hold off on sounding the Trump until I reach a conclusion...;)
  15. Mike 1967

    Mike 1967 New Member

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    That is also opinion :)

    I am commanded to share the gospel and defend my faith. So I am being faithful to that. The question is....why are you doing it :D

    Also, there are many that read these threads. So this does not just involve those who have posted here.
  16. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Backwoods Sexy Staff Member

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    The different denominations is one thing...I would consider that a given.

    But not just that, even when I would read the bible and think....how could this be done and justified.
    Or how this be told by god and then later he would either do or tell others to dothe exact opposite and so on.

    So yes it is a part of the different views by differing denominations, but it is also things that I have read in the bible myself and found to contradict itself.
  17. Mike 1967

    Mike 1967 New Member

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    Since you have put it on the table...then I will tell you what I believe and my own experience.

    Every time I pick up the Bible I get something new out of it. And I have spent a lot of time in it. I actually keep one in my back pocket so that I can read it when I am in may *ahem* other office. I have found that it is much deeper reading than the back of the shampoo bottle.

    I have literally read John 50 to 100 times. But I read through it last night with my Wife and discovered things I had never seen before.

    And the more I read and search...the more clarity I find.

    I used to have a handful of questions that I could not answer within my heart...some of which had the same origins as yours. But today I can tell you that I do not have these.

    I am not expecting you to understand this.....or that this will even have any impact on you whatsoever. All I can tell you is that it is true for me.

    But I also believe that you cannot understand scripture without the power of the Holy Spirit.
  18. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Backwoods Sexy Staff Member

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    Well at one time....I was a born again christian....young mr clean...but times changed.

    As far as finding something new everytime....I do not want this to come out wrong so don't take it in a negative way, but that can be done with other books as well....silly example but I love the book Shogun and have read it many times, but each time I read it, I find something new or understand something better....weak example I know but I think you get my point.

    Will have to speak about stuff later....I need to do some reports that I should have done earlier to day but just kept putting off. :(
  19. Mike 1967

    Mike 1967 New Member

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    Please don't take this wrong...not pushing it on you...but....

    My belief is that you will either come back into the fold or you were never really saved to begin with.


    I am very familiar with where you stand on this....we have been debating it for some time now :)

    I hear you....I'm probably going to lose my job if this keeps up to much longer :D
  20. naved

    naved New Member

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    Debating the validity & truth of religion is pointless; people tend to believe what they believe. It would be valid only if both parties were open to change, which doesn't happen much in religion or politics for that matter.

    I understand that rigorous scientific proof is not going to be available to disprove or prove theology. When it comes to arriving at ones own's belief system, you obviously deliberate information and facts and test them against what your experiences and intellect have taught you. An intellectual proof perhaps. I may not be stating this eloquently enough but I hope you understand what I'm saying.

    As far as your path to Christianity, did you study in detail other religions and philosophies or just Christianity?

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