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this is why Jim Mora is stupid

Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by dbair1967, Sep 9, 2004.

  1. Everlastingxxx

    Everlastingxxx All Star

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    Vick has the effect of a Michael Jordan, he is a playmaker and the difference maker for the Falcons, much like Jordan was for the Bulls. Take Vick or Jordan out of the team, and you have a very slim chance to win. Pretty simple comparison...if you dont believe it, look at last year when Vick went down.


    How do you know this? Surely coming back from a broken leg is hard rehab work.

    A nightmare that you have a decent backup QB? lol, Oh the horror! This was preseason, now the real games begin, lets see what Vick can do in a game that actually means something. Its funny how much some folks hate and love Vick.
  2. dbair1967

    dbair1967 Arch Defender

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    no, you obviously missed my response to him...

    but anyone that argues that Vick is a one my team (as you and he suggested) honestly have bought into the ESPN scramble highlights and this idea that nobody can stop him and he's a one man wrecking crew, when nothign could be further from the truth

    David
  3. dbair1967

    dbair1967 Arch Defender

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    I do live in Atlanta...and actually alot of the locals here are turning on him because of his percieved punk attitude, the idea that he doesnt need to work etc etc

    David
  4. crazylegs

    crazylegs Benched

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    Why all the hoop-la over Vick in Cowboys land, really who the hell cares? :confused:
  5. dbair1967

    dbair1967 Arch Defender

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    it's there..he definitely has a punk attitude

    David
  6. Charles

    Charles Benched

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    But coincidentally Michael Vick's Jersey is the only one that has been retired by the Virginia Tech along side Bruce Smiths, Jim Pyne and Frank Beamers.

    The best o-lineman on that team and only O-lineman to get drafted was some kid named Matt Lehr.

    Michael Vick was to Virginia Tech what Manning was to the Vols or Elway to the Cardinals or Leftwich and Pennington to Marshall evert other player on those teams come in a distant 2nd.

    SO what happened the year after in 2003????
  7. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Bad Santa Staff Member

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    Just to correct you on something and then i will move this to the NFL section where it belongs.

    Randy Moss was NOT a DISTANT 2nd to Pennington. If anything Pennington was a close 2nd to Moss at best.

    Furthermore Leftwich had two pretty good WRs to go along him as well in Darius Watts (who was drafted in the 2nd round this year by the Broncos and has been impressing them) and Josh Davis who is still in school.

    Ok just wanted to point that out. :cool:
  8. Eddie

    Eddie Well-Known Member

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    Seems like there's alot of anti-Vick sentiment around here. I wonder why???

    Look around the league and ask how many coaches would trade their starting QB for Vick straight up? I have a feeling the answer is in the 30's ...

    But for some reason, I wonder what kind of backlash we'd get if Vick became a Cowboy.
  9. dbair1967

    dbair1967 Arch Defender

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    people figured out Wade Phillip's defense...he did an amazing smoke and mirrors job in 02...the Falcons lost alot and lost badly last yr because #1, their defense couldnt stop anyone...the Falcons had 39 takeaways and 47 sacks, and finished near the top of the league it pts allowed

    by the way, the great 02 playoff season you and some others keep referring to. Their best win during the regular season was at the Giants (a playoff team) with Doug Johnson at QB...they beat one team with a winning record (New Orleans, which didnt make the playoffs) with Vick at QB...they did tie Pittsburgh and then did win at Green bay in the playoffs, with Vick throwing for a grand total of 117 yds...by the way, the week before the playoff game Green Bay had a chance to wrap up home field advantage but were DRUBBED at the Jets 42-17, indicating green bay was never that god a team to begin with, and they played liek it the following week in losing at home to Atlanta...Favre completed less than half his passes, and threw a couple picks, I think he also lost a fumble or two that day...

    David
  10. dbair1967

    dbair1967 Arch Defender

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    that might be true now, though I think after he plays poorly this yr that number will dramtically change

    David
  11. Charles

    Charles Benched

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    Moss was a great Wr for Marshall, but he didn't command and get the respect from teammates, fans and the football community the way Vick, Pennington and Leftwich did.

    There are reasons why even after having great success at Marshall, Moss still dropped in the draft. His of field problems at Marshall are legendary.

    Trust me on this one BP Moss's dirty laundry at Marshall makes his problems at Florida State look like child play.
  12. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    Its pretty crazy how Wade Phillips' defense, who has been in the legue for a decade, couldn't be figured out when Vick was the starter the entire year in 2002, then suddenly figured when Vick was out early in the year in 2003, then suddenly not figured out again for the final 4 games of the season when ... coincidentally enough ... Vick was healthy again.

    Wow, just some amazing and uncanny coincidences there.
  13. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Bad Santa Staff Member

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    Trust me MOSS put Marshall on the Map...people knew Moss before they ever heard of Pennington on a national scale.

    Gee I think I would know this as I only live a few hours from Marshall and was watching them before they jumped to Div IA Football and into the Mac.

    So ...Trust me on this one.

    Chad is a great player, smart player and a Hell of a Leader...But Moss put Marshall on the Map...and is flat out the better athlete.
  14. Charles

    Charles Benched

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    We'll see........... He could easily fluke his way into the ProBowl again. Who knows. If a pot head could play QB on a DallasCowboys play-off team against supposedly the hardest schedule at the time then I believe anyhting is possible. :)
  15. Sportsbabe

    Sportsbabe Well-Known Member

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    I thought you had some evidence. It's just your opinion that he's a punk. OK. I was with you on the hype & his QB skills, but I don't ever promote calling somebody out of their name. If he has an attitude problem then their should be some documented evidence.
  16. Charles

    Charles Benched

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    Thanks for making my point!!!.

    Vick is to Tech what Chad was to Marshall, what Elway was to Stanford, what Manning was to Tennesse, great player, smart player and great leader.

    Randy Moss whilst at Marshall was lacking in 2 out of those 3 areas.

    I agree Moss put Marshall on the map Nationally with his highlight catches, but guys like us who live in the area or have many friends or co-workers from the area hear through the grape vine about players. We know about them before they are on the cover of the National magazines.

    I made trips to W.Va from DC/MD area to watch Jason Williams and Moss play high school basketball. The same way I watched Leftwich play high school football at HD woodson or the No.1 high school prospect in 2004 Derrick Williams play at Roosevelt High school 3 lights down the street from my apartment.

    Those from the area know that even though Moss was the best athlete, Chad and Leftwich meant more to the team and the University.

    Moss was a great athlete, but he WAS a distant 2nd to Chad and Leftwich in respect to what Manning, Elway, Chad or Leftwich meant to their respective alumnis.
  17. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Bad Santa Staff Member

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    Actually you are partially right and partially wrong.

    Moss was more important to Marshall because he put Marshall on the map and helped them go out and win the Mac title when they first moved to the Mac.

    Furthermore Pennington was asked to, and did, redshirt his first year because the team felt they had a better chance with Moss starting with Eric Kresser at QB.

    Also Moss put marshall on the map and the big thing that was questioned ,when he decided to leave and go pro, by the media was....Will Pennington be able to do as well without Moss.

    Also you said you Watched Moss and Williams play...then you are also aware that even though they played on the same team, and even though Williams went on to the NBA....Moss was the one that won West Virginia's Mr Basketball title instead of Williams....which further goes to show the respect he garned for his skills.

    Another thing, Moss rarely if ever stayed out of a game unless the coaches forced him to do so at Marshall...even though he had some injuries that many would have sat out with....he did this and the coaches let him do this because he could handle it and they knew what he meant to the team.

    Furthermore it was the production of Moss and the system at marshall was instrumental in getting better recruits to Marshall especially in the WR department.

    Moss again was a finalist for the Heisman BEFORE Pennington.

    Also your original post that I replied to did not contain anything about leadership itself....my take was that it showed that the player was so talented that it help make the team what it was.

    Either way Moss was never and will never (for those who follow marshall) be considered a distant 2nd to Pennington...as once again Moss put marshall on the map.

    Moss only went to marshall because his FSU gig fell through because of his troubles so he went to Marshall as they were not in the Div1A which meant he did not have to sit out a year....prior to Moss coming not too many people ever even heard of Marshall.

    Once Moss started making plays and putting up huge numbers (even with Eric Kresser starting while Chad Red Shirted) the nation started taking notice.
  18. Charles

    Charles Benched

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    BP look at the premise again: Michael Vick was to Virginia Tech what Manning was to the Vols or Elway to the Cardinals or Leftwich and Pennington to Marshall

    What made those players really special, not only were they great players like Moss, they were also smart players, they were also great leaders on their football. Moss was seriously lacking in leadership and smartness category. He would have never ended up in Marshall if he was a smart and took care of his business as a collegiate athlete. He would have never dropped in the draft if he showed minimum leadership qualities. This is the same guy who stated he takes plays off hours before picking up a hefty pay check.

    I love Moss the player, but he has never proven to be a consumate professional on any level until last year in the off-season when he bought into Mike Tice system. If it wasn't for Chris Carter's influence early in those 1st couple of seasons I believe his rap sheet would have been longer.

    For these reasons I believe Moss is a distant 2nd. He might resonate louder with the National fans because he made spectacular catches and was very productive. He did attract recruits to Marshall and get the school National exposure, butin respect to being a team leader and smart player for Marshall university, Moss comes in a distant 2nd when compared to the likes or Chad or Byron, Elway or Manning for their respective schools.
  19. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    I'm not sure he is a Parcells type QB but I bet you Bill would try to coach him up.

    When (if) he learns he'll survive longer and do more damage throwing the ball he will be one of the best QBs in the league.

    I wouldn't take his ability to run away from him but I would try to make him use it more to his advantage.

    Send him this way.

    Sup Q. You still posting on the "other" board or is that someone else?
  20. Charles

    Charles Benched

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    Hey j

    I'd take Vick too in a Newyork minute. I bet a Vick Vs. Henson thread could garner 200 replies ;).

    Nope I haven't been posting any where else lately. I don't even have the time to post here as much as I used too. It gotta be someone else using "Qcard". I dropped the handle after everyone's favorite whipping boy got cut.

    I am working a 9-5 and going to school in the evenings. My daughter is 3 now so I don't even have time on the weekends to post.

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