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Throw out the records, who are the two best teams in the country?

Discussion in 'Sports Zone' started by mr.jameswoods, Nov 12, 2004.

  1. mr.jameswoods

    mr.jameswoods Active Member

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    USC is definitely #1

    but I don't know who the 2nd best team. I'm leaning toward Georgia or Cal right now. I don't think Oklahoma has played anyone to warrant their spot; I think Texas is overrated which is how OU go their ranking. Auburn is playing well but I think they are overachieving. I wouldn't be suprised to see Georgia beat Auburn.
  2. Yeagermeister

    Yeagermeister Active Member

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  3. TxStar61

    TxStar61 New Member

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    Ok IF Texas is not a worthy opponent, then in your estimation who does OU have to beat to place them at #2 ?
  4. Danny White

    Danny White Winter is Coming

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    Auburn and Oklahoma. No question in my mind that USC will get beaten soundly in the Orange Bowl.

    I think Cal is better than USC.
  5. da_boyz_mk

    da_boyz_mk How 'Bout Dem Cowboys

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    I would have to say USC and Auburn.
  6. Tio

    Tio Armchair QB

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    USC and Auburn
  7. Midswat

    Midswat Benched

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    Auburn and Oklahoma
  8. mr.jameswoods

    mr.jameswoods Active Member

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    It's not that Texas isn't a worthy opponent; it's just they were their only worthy opponent versus Auburn who played more than one Texas calibre opponent. Heck, I think Tennessee is better than Texas and Auburn has to play them twice. Tennessee, Georgia, Miami, LSU, and Cal would have given OU fits. I'm not saying OU couldn't beat these teams. I just don't feel they have proven they are the second best team in the country even if that could be the reality. I think Auburn has proven they are the second best team in the country because of their schedule.

    Anyway, we will see what happens. If Auburn beats Tennessee, you can pretty much chalk up USC vs. Auburn because Auburn has just played a tougher schedule. And OU shouldn't take Cal for granted because many experts feel they are truly the second best team in the country.
  9. Dallas

    Dallas Old bulletproof tiger

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    Do you even READ the sports? Go look at the BCS rankings and scores of each team. The ONLY way Auburn gets in is if USC or OU lose. It doesnt matter if they crush whoever in the championship game. Its a done deal already.

    Better yet. Show me where it says Auburn will get the NC game if they win out. I would like to see it.

    They lost votes last weekend in the AP poll. Did you even read that? They are no longer tied with OU. So tell us. How are they to catch OU now. The only way is if USC or OU drop one. Its happened. But that is the only way Auburn sees the NC game.
  10. mr.jameswoods

    mr.jameswoods Active Member

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    Shouldn't you be at a Mariott this afternoon getting another one of your certifications?

    Anyway, I'll make this real easy. If Auburn beats Tennessee, then Auburn is in the national championship game. The SEC is the toughest conference in America. To go undefeated in the SEC is a historic task. There is no way the media and the coaches would allow Auburn to not play in the championship if they beat Tennessee again. Last year, USC got the shaft and Oklahoma got in. If all three teams went undefeated, then OU would get the shaft this year.

    Read the BCS poll. OU is leading Auburn in the AP poll by 5 points. OU has 1541 points to Auburn's 1536. In the Coaches poll, OU is leading Auburn by 4 points 1440 to 1436. If you really think a win against Tennessee won't shift some of these votes in Auburn's direction, then you are kidding yourself especially considering how close this race is.

    It's going to be close. You could be right but I really think if Auburn sweeps the SEC, then the voters will change their minds because of the daunting task that going undefeated in the SEC is.
  11. Danny White

    Danny White Winter is Coming

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    I think you're going to be wrong here... but only time will tell. I think Auburn lost their momentum last week, and it will be tough to get it back with only one game left. They may catch or pass OU in the human polls, but they still are too far behind in the BCS.

    A lot depends on how well OU does in the big 12 CCG. If they blow out their opponent, then I don't think any Auburn outcome will matter.

    For an OU fan, you sure hate on them a lot. I've never seen someone so aggressively bitter towards their supposed favorite team. Did you get beat up by a football player when you were a student there?

    Anyway, nothing personal. Hope you have a nice Thanksgiving.
  12. Dallas

    Dallas Old bulletproof tiger

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    Im not going off of a poll. Go look at the latest BCS forumla numbers and see where each team is. These numbers have ALREADY taken your pathetic argument into consideration and these numbers are as of right now where each team sits if the NC game were to be decided today. Whatever you are smoking and whatever you are believing is incorrect. I stated earlier. Show us some proof where it says if Auburn wins out in its Championship game it will jump OU.

    You have not done this. Your argument as I see it now is just opinion because you cannot back your claim.

    I will state it again. Auburn will be the one looking in at the NC game.

    One last thing. Where is this BCS poll you speak of? I know of the BCS rankings where everything matters when you look at it.

    Im going to link this for your slow witted self. After you look at this (the latest BCS rankings) then you can explain to us how Auburn makes up the difference without an OU or USC loss. Im sure every sports writer across the nation would like to know. Because even they say Auburn cannot make it up unless one team drops a game.

    BCS for Dummies


    Here is my argument why OU should be in over Auburn.

    You can argue that Auburn plays in the toughest conference in the nation and went undefeated in the SEC, but look at their wins against teams that they played AWAY from home:
    9-11-04 at Mississippi State (3-7) WON 43-14
    10-2-04 at Tennessee (8-2) WON 34-10
    10-30-04 at Mississippi (3-7) WON 35-14
    11-20-04 at Alabama (6-5) WON 21-13

    This schedule features ONE top 25 team on the road, Tennessee. The win at Tennessee doesn't look as impressive now that Notre Dame, a team that lost to Pitt, Boston College, and BYU, went into Knoxville and embarassed the Vols.

    You can not convince me that Auburn has played a worthy opponent on the road. Now, look at OU's road schedule:

    10-9-04 Texas (9-1) WON 12-0
    10-16-04 at Kansas State (4-7) WON 31-21
    10-30-04 at Oklahoma State (7-3) WON 38-35
    11-6-04 at Texas A&M (7-3) WON 42-35
    11-20-04 at Baylor (3-8) WON 35-0

    Wow. This schedule features THREE, count em, THREE top 25 teams on the road! Hmm...I wonder who should be #2 in the polls.


    *RANT OFF*
  13. mr.jameswoods

    mr.jameswoods Active Member

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    I love OU but I have enough courage to be forthcoming about their weaknesses. I'm sorry but I'm not comfortable lying and saying OU is the best team in the country if I don't feel that is the case. I just have the ability to separate my loyalty from my intelligence. If criticizing elements characterizes me as being bitter toward the team then so be it. I suppose every sports journalist in America is bitter about their team when they openly criticize it.In your opinion, I suppose esteemed writers like Bob Ryan are not real fans.

    But to be fair, I have complimented Adrian Petersen and defended him in his route to the Heisman. In addition, I have defended OU when people made claims that Bob Stoops would leave OU for Florida. I reminded everyone what a ridiculous notion that was because OU's football program is one of the best in the nation. I suppose details like that slip by people whose reading comprehension skills are a little substandard so I understand why you may have missed those fine details, no offense of course.

    Happy Thanksgiving
  14. mr.jameswoods

    mr.jameswoods Active Member

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    Gawd, now I know why you got your degrees from a diploma mill. I'm not basing my argument on what the BCS rankings are as of today. Do you want me to repeat that in case you ASSume that again. I'm not basing my argument on the current BSC rankings I'm saying should Auburn beat Tennessee, then the polls MAY place Auburn ahead of OU which would enable Auburn to secure the number two ranking in the BCS. If you spent a little more time watching ESPN instead of re-runs of Hee Haw, you would realize the BCS consists 2/3 of the AP and the Coaches polls. If Auburn were to exceed OU in both polls after beating Tennessee, they would be ranked number 2 in the BCS regardless if the Computer rankings favored OU. There is no conclusive proof that states Auburn will play in the national championship game should they beat Tennessee. I never made that claim. I simply provided my opinion as you have done with yours. I'm sorry that caused you to undergo a seizure and you thought I was publishing my opinion as fact for the FDA to approve. And I have already stated you could very well be correct because Auburn would have to most likely beat Tennessee by 20 points or more to convince voters.

    I could play Toledo on the road and it doesn't change the fact that they are Toledo. OU has played only three teams on the road that were competitive which include Texas, OK State and Texas AM. Texas AM is overrated as they lost to crappy Baylor. Tennessee is arguably better than all of the teams mentioned above and without a doubt is better than Oklahoma State and Texas AM. Alabama could probably beat Texas AM. Now let's flip the equation. How many quality teams has OU played at home
    1. Bowling Green
    2. Houston
    3. Oregon
    4. Texas Tech
    5. Kansas
    6. Nebraska

    Every one of those teams are cupcakes. OU has not played one decent team at home. At least Auburn played LSU and Georgia at home. Auburn has beaten 3 teams that were ranked in the top 10 at the time. OU has only played one top ten team in Texas. And remember that Texas barely beat Arkansas and came close to losing that game which just happens to be another SEC team.
  15. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    Guys....knock off the personal insults please.

    I would suggest a few edits are in order but will give some the chance to do it themselves.

    Just because someone does not agree with does not mean the insults need to start flying.

    If someone irks you that much then put them on ignore.

    Thanks.
  16. mr.jameswoods

    mr.jameswoods Active Member

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    Tennessee and Alabama are not worthy opponents? Please explain to all of us how these teams are not worthy. The last I checked, Texas AM lost to Baylor. Kansas St. and Baylor have losing records. And Texas is played at a neutral site in Dallas in which half the Cotton Bowl is full of OU fans.

    Game, Set, Match
  17. LatinG187

    LatinG187 Defense Wins Championships

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    I think Auburn is the best team right now followed by Oklahoma.Auburn just looks unstoppable.They aren't just beating top notch team,but they're beating them very convincingly.Oklahoma has shown that they can come through when it counts.As for USC,they are definitly a great team,with alot of dangerous weapons such as Reggie Bush,Matt Leinart and so on.However, I just don't feel that they could beat a team like Auburn or Oklahoma.
  18. mr.jameswoods

    mr.jameswoods Active Member

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    The truth is none of us knows who is the best team. We will all find out who is the best in early January. Oklahoma may very well be the best team in the country. It's definitely possible they could thrash USC or Auburn. Likewise, I can see USC and Auburn dominating too. All three of those teams have the talent to win a national championship.

    The only thing I have argued who is deserves to play for the national championship. In other words, who deserves to play for the big game based on what they have accomplished. I think Auburn deserves the slight nod over OU. And in my opinion, USC has done more than Oklahoma to show they are worthy.

    Anyway, the system is flawed as it is. We need a playoff game because whoever gets the shaft is being done wrong.
  19. Dallas

    Dallas Old bulletproof tiger

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    Just a little article I found to support why Auburn should not be playing for the NC game if all 3 go undefeated. This from SI.


    From SI.com...
    The System Hasn't Failed Us

    As long as two best teams meet in Orange, rest of bowls are just bowls

    Maybe I'm getting my stories mixed up, but I hear that folks in the Ukraine are so dissatisfied with the recent election results that they're clamoring for a playoff. Hey, how did Bill Scheft get into my column?

    So I'm phoning the college buddies on Saturday evening, trying to gauge if anyone is optimistic enough to predict a Notre Dame victory against Southern Cal. And my friend Kramden, who was once Tony Rice's R.A. ("Tony, could you at least wait until I've shut the door to my room before you do that?"), asks a staggeringly simple question: "Outside of the Orange Bowl, why do these announcers make such a big deal about the other BCS bowls? As a fan, why should I care?"

    Why, indeed. Sure, the Fiesta, Rose and Sugar have higher payouts than the other bowls. But, as a fan, what do you or I care about that? We just want to see the top games. So if Texas is not invited to a BCS bowl, yet is wooed by the Cotton (which has a much richer history than the Fiesta), why should we consider this a travesty? Especially if the Longhorns' opponent is, say, Louisville or Iowa? Wouldn't you rather see Texas-Louisville than Utah-Pitt, which is probably what the BCS' Fiesta Bowl will feature?

    The ABC, CBS and ESPN announcers (as well as many a sportswriter) like to use the example of B.C. (before the Eagles lost to Syracuse) and now Pittsburgh or Syracuse playing in the Fiesta Bowl as proof that the system has failed us. Um, no it hasn't. If Pitt were playing in the Orange Bowl this year, then yes, it would have failed us. But as long as we can be assured that arguably the two best teams throughout the season are facing one another for the national championship (Read that again -- that's a promise that NCAA basketball cannot make), then how has it failed us?

    Because, after the Orange, all of the other bowls are just bowl games. From a fan's perspective, the three other bowls have no more relevance than the Insight.com Bowl or the Humanitarian Bowl.

    When it comes time to discriminate between which of the 573 bowl games I'll watch, I choose the most compelling matchups. I don't care if a bowl has the BCS stamp of approval on it. Case in point: I attended the Cal-Virginia Tech Insight.com Bowl in Phoenix last December. It was a lot more exciting than the Kansas State-Ohio State contest played a week later in the Valley of the Sun.

    The loveliest village on The Plains truth

    Auburn fans, I know you don't want to hear this, but these six words explain why the Tigers are unlikely to play in the Orange Bowl come January: Louisiana-Monroe, The Citadel, Louisiana Tech.

    Those three schools represent 1) Auburn's non-conference schedule this season and 2) nothing out of the ordinary. Look, it's not the players' fault. But the athletic administration at Auburn consistently schedules a trio of weak, non-BCS conference schools who agree to play at Jordan-Hare each year in order to pad both the Tigers' record and the athletic department's budget.

    I crunched numbers. Actual chomping of data. Beginning with the 1993 squad that finished 11-0 while on probation (Terry Bowden's first season as Tigers coach), here is Auburn's out-of-conference combat record:

    • 38 games overall

    • 34 games played at Jordan-Hare, only four on the road

    • Only two of those 38 opponents were ranked (Southern Cal both times) and the Tigers were 0-2 versus the Trojans in this period.

    • Only seven of those 38 opponents are BCS schools (USC twice, Virginia twice, Syracuse twice, Georgia Tech) and in those games Auburn's record was 2-5.

    Earlier this month Auburn coach Tommy Tuberville made a comment to the effect that he'd find it hard to believe a school from the SEC could finish undefeated and not be invited to play in the national championship game. Believe it, coach.

    No school can control the quality of its in-conference opponents. You hope that they are tough enough to challenge you, but not so strong as to beat you. Oklahoma and Southern Cal were both fortunate in that they beat two schools, Texas and Cal, respectively, who have gone 10-1 and are in everyone's top eight.

    Auburn, although it does play in the SEC, has beaten its in-conference competition, but no opponent this season has been as good as Cal or Texas. SEC folk -- I lived in Alabama and covered the conference exclusively for a year, and have returned many times since -- are usually correct when they argue that theirs is the best conference in the nation. However, the stifling parochialism displayed by Auburn (just one trip west of the Mississippi in the past 20 seasons) and its SEC kin has at last come back to bite the Tigers.

    Not to mention -- although I'm about to -- that Auburn played seven home games (and four road) this season, which is about its average. Southern Cal, meanwhile will have played six and six; Oklahoma six home, five away (not including the Big 12 Championship game).

    Auburn can control its non-conference slate, and year-in and year-out chooses to tackle patsies. A partial list of its non-SEC opponents from the past 11 seasons: Samford, Northeast Louisiana (three times), East Tennessee State, UT-Chattanooga, Appalachian State and Louisiana-Monroe (twice). Auburn, listen: Homecoming should only happen once a year.

    Don't blame the players. And don't blame the system. But, if you agree that Auburn, Oklahoma and Southern Cal are the only three schools deserving of a bid for the Orange Bowl, well, then you have to play musical chairs with that trio. And you can't blame any one school for the quality of its in-conference foes. But while Southern Cal was scheduling Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, BYU and Colorado State (two of those games on the road) and Oklahoma was taking on Bowling Green, Houston and Oregon in Norman (at least one of those was a BCS program), Auburn stayed home, played three lambs and counted the gate receipts. And that, most likely, will make it the first undefeated SEC school not to play for a national title since ... the '93 Auburn Tigers.

    The season is the playoff (cont.)

    I'm beating last week's dead horse here, but a few observations from this weekend's games. If we had an eight-team college football playoff, then we would have known coming into Saturday's Southern Cal-Notre Dame game that it would have no bearing on the national title. USC would already have sewn up a postseason berth, and chances are that the Irish might not have come out as fired up as they were; or that the Trojans would not have worried so much about making a comeback.

    Meanwhile, how much coin would someone have had to offer a fan outside the Midwest to tune into Mizzou-Iowa State if there were a playoff system? However, because this game had a bearing on who would face Oklahoma, and because Oklahoma is gunning for the Orange Bowl, Mizzou-Iowa State had real drama. And a fantastic finish.

    A college football record is a house of cards. Or, to be a little more current, like a game of Jenga. Each week you remain undefeated, the stakes become higher. The house or stack becomes more difficult to maintain. And it's that tightrope walk that the season happens to be that makes the sport unique and unmatched (even by TNT's cavalcade of syndicated programs) in terms of drama.

    Eight in the box

    1. During the third quarter of the Texas-Texas A&M game on Friday, Utah coach Urban Meyer was interviewed by the ABC announcers via telephone. One announcer asked Meyer to comment on a system that might somehow exclude Cal or Texas from a BCS bowl (as if that matters; see above) and the coach replied, "I like to see things settled on the field." The announcer replied, "Amen," although it sounded a lot like, "Y'er **** right, Coach! We need a frickin' playoff so ABC can reap millions more on televised postseason games."

    Anyway, my question to Meyer is, didn't you say you saw Cal play USC in October? Didn't they play on a field? Wasn't something settled? And, maybe you didn't get a chance to see it, but Texas played Oklahoma -- again, on a field -- in October. And there appeared to be a conclusive outcome to that game. So I understand: If you had a playoff and, say, Cal and USC met again, then the second game would mean more than the first one did? Why is that? USC would have to go 2-0 versus Cal to win a national title, but Cal would only need go 1-1 versus the Trojans?

    2. OK, the horse is dead, beaten, ground to a pulp, and has been sold for parts. I'll stop yammering about that issue now. Promise. Sorry.

    3. Did you see ABC's Todd Harris interview Trojans legend Anthony Davis on the sidelines (well, Harris is a sideline reporter, after all) during the Notre Dame-USC game? A.D. has gotten rather rotund. After the interview, Keith Jackson actually said, "Anthony Davis ... got a treadmill?" Ouch, babe.

    4. Switching over to the Georgia Southern-New Hampshire I-AA playoff game on ESPN2, and this is the first thing I hear: "George Peterson, the senior from Clarendon, Vt., just outside of Rutland." Ohhh, just outside of Rutland. Yeah, that pinpoints it for us.

    5. Found myself in the University of Oklahoma bookstore last Monday -- which, it may come as no surprise, is located inside the football stadium. Strangely enough, the bookstore currently sells no No. 28 (Adrian Peterson) jerseys. Even stranger, considering that the Sooners have four Heisman Trophy winners plus the notorious Brian Bosworth, the only former player whose jersey the store carries is that of Marcus Dupree. And he played in Norman barely more than a year.

    6. I love Lee Corso, but I hate his philosophy. On College Gameday Final he (as did Kirk Herbstreit) announced that Southern Cal QB Matt Leinart had "wrapped up the Heisman Trophy." "No. 1 quarterback, No. 1 team," said Corso, who then added that Leinart had tossed "five touchdown passes against America's team, Notre Dame."

    Back in Bristol, Conn., Trev Alberts displayed the previously noted (in last week's column) "He Took The Words Right Outta My Mouth" Effect. First, Alberts noted that the Irish have the 107th-ranked pass defense in the country (it's no coincidence that the Irish made Kyle Orton, Paul Peterson and Tyler Palko all look like Heisman candidates earlier this season). Then Alberts stumped for Peterson as the nation's most outstanding player and said that OU would be 9-2 without him. I've watched A.D. play twice this season in person, and I couldn't agree more.

    7. Corso's "No. 1 quarterback, No. 1 team" formula is the same one that got Gino Torretta a Heisman a dozen years ago. Leinart is the best quarterback in the nation, it's true, and you can't really complain if he wins the H, but having a big passing day against the Irish is as special these days as, well, beating them.

    8. If you're sick of rage rock, tired of the melody-devoid primal screaming of bands such as Slipknot, Staind, Tool and Papa Roach (we can't all be Rage Against the Machine), let me suggest Roger Clyne & the Peacemakers. Here's what allmusicguide.com (the second-best Web site out there) says about his latest album, "Americano": "Americano is one fine album; it should be played at earsplitting volume in pool halls, bowling alleys and backyard bashes and on college radio stations. It should blare from the CD players of fast cars roaring down empty highways under the stars and just before dawn. Indeed, it should be savored and celebrated by those swaggering street denizens known as the rock & roll faithful as proof that the good stuff never disappears."

    But don't listen to me. Or them. Listen to Roger. Try the tracks Counterclockwise and Switchblade. Then go ahead, raise your goblet of rock.
  20. mr.jameswoods

    mr.jameswoods Active Member

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    Bowling Green, Houston and Oregon. Yes, those teams may be better than Auburn's non-conference foes but that's like comparing whch Korean car manufacturer is sexier Kia or Huyndai.

    The problem facing Auburn is the SEC wasn't as strong as in years past. Either LSU, Tennessee or Georgia was expected to finish with only 1 loss team. Alabama was supposed to finish better than 6-5. If this would have been the case, no one would have faulted Auburn for scheduling pansies in their non-conference but luck didn't work out that way for them while Texas took care of business and beat the rest of the pansies on their schedule so all the cards worked out well for OU.

    but alas

    we have one more weekend left to see what happens

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