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Tom Landry

Discussion in 'History Zone' started by Jarv, Dec 19, 2005.

  1. Jarv

    Jarv Loud pipes saves lives. Zone Supporter

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    For the old folks here, remember when Tom Landry was a young inovative coach ? Using computers, motion formation and he brought back the shotgun.

    Tom is my favorite all time coach ever, but he had most of his sucess in the late 60's through the 70's. The 1981 NFC championship loss to the 49'ers was his last big game really. By 1988 his was coaching a 3-13 team.

    Jimmy Johnson brought in a speed defense and being a former College coach was able to draft real well his 1st few years in the NFL. He had seen the players play and hit on a lot, not all, of his early picks as a coach. Jimmy didn't fair as well in Miami.

    Don Shula, his superbowl came early in his career and he fielded decent teams after that, made it back to the superbowl in 84 with Marino but his better days were early in his career.

    Chuck Noll, great coach but the same pattern.

    Lombardi even in Baltimore, career cut short tragically, but how were they then ?

    BP wins 2 superbowls, 1986 and 1990. The last one being 15 years ago...

    Is it me or can someone show or tell me when a great coach won a superbowl in his waining years ? It just seems that the really greats in coaching won their superbowls early in their careers. I'm just thinking about this off the top of my head, so if you have info on coach's winning late in their careers please post them so I can see the balance.

    I wonder who was the oldest coach to win a superbowl ? Dick Vermeil in St. Louis ?

    Do coach's become so predictable in their careers that it becomes easier to game plan against them ?

    Am I off base here ? But it almost seems like a new younger coach could come out and surprise people. What are your thoughts on this ?
  2. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    Interesting question. Most coaches aren't around long enough to prove or disprove your point. Landry got to the NFC championship game in 1982 against the Skins by the way. I thought Lombardi went to Washington. Dan Reeves got Atlanta to the Superbowl late in his career.
  3. Juke99

    Juke99 ...Abbey someone

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    Yes Lombardi went to Washington.
  4. CrazyCowboy

    CrazyCowboy Well-Known Member

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    During coach Landry's last three years, I remeber thinking to my self that MAYBE coach Landry should retire........I admit it.....I just thought the other teams begin to figure him out and he had nothing "new" for them!

    He is still the man! I love Coach Landry........always!
  5. Cbz40

    Cbz40 The Grand Poobah

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    "Do coach's become so predictable in their careers that it becomes easier to game plan against them ? "

    I think this may be the area that is suspect.
  6. Jarv

    Jarv Loud pipes saves lives. Zone Supporter

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    Okay, my bad...But did he win a superbowl in Washington ?

    My point is that great coach's seem to make their name for themselves early in their career....and MOST seem to ride that name later in their career.

    I'm not saying BP isn't a HOF coach, but Juke, like you said he isn't the coach he was earlier in his career, dontcha think ?
  7. ravidubey

    ravidubey Active Member

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    Landry was undermined by his general manager, ineffective scouting deptartment, a little by his own success, and being a target for several younger hungrier coaches (Landry would insist his coaching staff leave for home around 5:00 every day).

    Teams have mmisses in the draft, but Gil Brandt and general misfortune turned whiffing into a science for Dallas in the 1980's. Rod Hill was a ridiculous reach and bust in 1982; Jim Jeffcoat was solid in 1983, but was chosen before at least a dozen better players; Billy Cannon Jr. in 1984 suffered a career-ending injury; 1985's Michael Brooks/Jesse Penn combo was downright pitiful; Mike Sherrard was an impact player in 1986 until he broke his leg; and Danny Noonan was a serious whiff in 1987.

    Yes, 1985 also (eventually) produced Herschel Walker and thank God for that, but that otherwise horrid sequence of drafts and injuries spelled the end for Landry more than anything else.
  8. THUMPER

    THUMPER Papa

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    A good question. I think part of it is that older coaches take less chance and tend to play it safer than when they were young (just like almost all people do). They become more predictable and less innovative and stick with what has worked in the past even though the game may have changed.

    I also think the quality of their assistant coaches goes down as they mature and move on to take other jobs and the older HC looks for guys he can mold rather than guys that will keep him sharp. This seems to be Parcells biggest drawback right now. When you compare guys like Belichick, Coughlin, Weis, Groh, etc. with Payton & Zimmer you see a HUGE drop off in talent and ability as well as in leadership.

    As we get older we don't want people arguing with us so much and look to surround ourselves with guys who will just do what we tell them. That might be more pleasant to be around but it doesn't make for a successful team. A HC needs guys that will challenge him and keep him sharp not just do what he tells them to.

    Landry had excellent assistants in the 70s with Dan Reeves and Mike Ditka but when both of them moved on in the early 80s he didn't replace them with the same caliber of assistant and it hurt the team.

    You will also see older coaches signing players who played for them before because they don't have to spend the time to teach them. It is all about their view of the time they have and are willing to spend teaching both assistants and players. Older guys don't have as much and aren't willing to teach the same lessons over and over again.

    Personally, I wouldn't have an older coach as my HC because of those reasons. I would bring him in as the GM or personnel guy or as a coordinator but not as the HC.

    Vermeil is one of the only ones to have success later in his career and that was due mostly to having excellent assistants and having been out of the game so long that he COULDN'T bring in any former players so he had to rely on new guys and to teach them. He hasn't had that same kind of success since the Rams won the SB though and I think he will retire again very soon and for good this time.

    Another guy who had success later in life was George Halas when he came back as the HC (again) in the early 60s and the Bears won a title in 1963 under his leadership but I think that was an anomaly as he faded very quickly after that and the Bears stunk from then until Ditka brought them back in the 80s.
  9. Jarv

    Jarv Loud pipes saves lives. Zone Supporter

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    Good post Thumper, I like it when I conjector an idea and someone comes up with facts and reason why it could be so.

    Folks, BP has been great, but I am ready to start new. New young inovative coach from the college ranks like when Jimmy 1st got here. Play or draft a young QB and take our lumps on the way to rebuilding.

    I really like a lot of the young talent BP has brought in this year, we just need someone to coach and motivate them to higher levels.

    BP is saying he is playing a vanilla 3-4 because of the young players, well that not working the last 4 games. BP plays a statue QB when the O-line is not blocking well, thats not working either.

    He won't adjust and other teams love it.

    How many of you thought Romo should have been giving some playing and how many of you knew that it wasn't going to happen. If we know that, don't you think other teams know it also ? He almost basically stated in his half time interveiw we weren't going to win. So why not try some new things ?

    He might have 20 years ago, but not now...And that folks is the difference.
  10. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    Lombardi only had one year with the skins before he died. That year they improved a lot and there was talk that they would be contenders soon. Then Allen came in and they were. Lombardi actually did a better job in some respect in his last two years with GB- the team was aging in the lines and at the skill positions. He was unable to replace the HOF players he started with in the early 60's with comparably talented players. That was shown when in the first season after he left they were a losing team and stayed that way untill Starr became their coach years later. Their last SB win was a case of Lombardi just outcoaching a team that actually had superior talent.
  11. Juke99

    Juke99 ...Abbey someone

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    I think Lombardi became GM with the Redskins...he wasn't their coach.

    Anyway...yes I agree...in fact, it's a young man's game.

    Honestly, I was thrilled when Jerry hired Parcells. And I think he's done a good job of returning the organization to a football state of mind, as opposed to the circus Jerry made of the organization.

    With regard to the results on the field, and the future of the team...I'm not the least bit confident that Parcells can bring this team back to elite status.

    He HATES the job...he sez it constantly...CONSTANTLY...he's paid $5 million per year...gEEEeeeZ...if a player *****ed and moaned as often as Parcells, we'd be all over the guy...especially for that kind of money.

    And if people don't think his negativity filters down through to the players, especially the young ones, they are sadly mistaken. For every guy that responds to Parcells bullying, there's a guy who doesn't...I think he's broken a few...Bryant...Henson...Julius...

    Early in his career Parcells knew how to goose guys...knew when to give them a pat on the back...heck, he even smiled on occasion.

    But this sour, dour, blowhard that I'm seeing week in, week out...for the past two seasons, isn't the coach I watched, and admired, in NY.

    And yes, age probably has everything to do with it..."I'm too old to lose"...that was the warning shot across the bow. In order to TRULY rebuild (as opposed to this patchwork quilt we have) you've got to be willing to take your lumps.

    The shame of it is, we took our lumps last year for NOTHING....because we trotted the likes of Dedric Ward on to the field instead of a guy like Crayton.

    Whatever...it's all conjecture...but I am thinking of using this as my new sig pic. :D

    [IMG]

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