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Tyron Smith = Clay Shiver?

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by Teague31, Feb 12, 2011.

  1. Teague31

    Teague31 Defender of the Star

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    Remember Clay Shiver? Bobby Bowden said he was the best center he ever had at FSU. Smart, technically sound. Had one major drawback- size. Dude could never get over 265 pounds and washed out quickly. I know Step was the same size but he has proven to be the exception rather than the rule. I keep reading all this great stuff about Smith and then I see the weight- 285. Maybe he gets bigger, maybe he doesn't. And if he doesn't.... bust time ala Shiver.
  2. realtick

    realtick Benched

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    Never ever remember Shiver weighing just 265. NFL.com has him at 283 as his last listed weight. Entirely different players anyways.
  3. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    I see Tyron Smith as a project player with potential. It has been reported that he has trouble keeping his weight up and his strength will improve if he gains weight. He was not the starting LOT at USC so all the projection for him being a NFL ProBowl LOT tackle is just spectulation. He is a zone blocking RT that plays with finesse. He is not what the Cowboys usually look for in an OL. He is just not my type of linemen. He does have great potential , quick feet , mirrors well and can get to the second level. He will never be a big over-powering , road-grading mauler. He is the type of linemen that will do well with speed rushers ,but power rushers will give him problems. He has the same problems as Rodney Hudson , the guard prospect from FSU , lack of size and power , with no promise to get bigger.
  4. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    An Offensive Tackle at USC is a rebirth of a Center at Florida State?

    I do not see that connection.
  5. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    The size issue , the strength issue , both linemen . I think the OP was just pointing out that these two factors can determine weather a linemen is a sucess or failure.
  6. Teague31

    Teague31 Defender of the Star

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    this.
  7. jjktkk

    jjktkk Active Member

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    Same colors. :laugh2:
  8. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    He is a project. He has to gain and hold at least 15-20 lbs more than he has. He is young and that helps. Some people think that adding weight is easy; and that every prospect can do it. That is not true. Al Johnson was proof of that for us alone.
    That is why I doubt anyone takes him high in the first rd; he cannot start right away which is what you expect from a first rd pick (except QBs).
  9. johnnyd

    johnnyd Active Member

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    the guy needs to hit the weight room no doubt he is only 20 so there is time to grow there unlike a watkins type who's pushing 40 :p: . anyway like i said in another thread im going to wait until the combine to pass judement but based on what i have read about this guy he seems to be a year+ away from playing and i just don't think that is what we need right now. if we had an orgy of draft picks like the pats then i would love a upside guy like this. but we need starters for this OL sooner rather than later.
  10. realtick

    realtick Benched

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    At a base comparison, Clay Shiver was 6'2 283 lbs. Tyron Smith is listed at 6'5" 291 (http://tinyurl.com/4sfgswt).

    Whether you believe that or not is secondary, the point is Smith is 20-years old and has a 6'5" frame to add an additional 15-20 lbs.

    I'm willing to bet he can do that.

    People are also assuming that the only reason Clay Shiver failed in the NFL is supposedly weight related. To that I offer another alternative: he wasn't very good.
  11. unionjack8

    unionjack8 Well-Known Member

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    well i pretty much GUARANTEE he'll be the 1st OL taken. Right now i'd say between 9 and 15.
  12. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    word was on the USC boards was that he had a hard time maintaining 285 late in the season. What he weighs at the Combine will tell the tail. What he weighs on USC's pro day much closer to the Draft will also be of huge importance to his status. He has got to be close to 300 by that time if he wants to be a top 15 pick.
  13. johnnyd

    johnnyd Active Member

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    of course he will bro. i know you were trying to make a "walkoff" statement here but it's a good oline draft not great , lot's of good players some very good and based on what some scouts have been saying about this kid he may have the best chance to be great. teams will always overpay for that kind of stuff. Again im not knocking this kid i "want to believe" but myself and other posters are worried this kid might be 2 years away from playing at a level justifying his top 10 pick. We need a starter TODAY .
  14. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    I hope it is not the Cowboys that pull the trigger. Bunting , Vela and a few more draft experts are really pushing him. They seem to like this type of linemen.
  15. Cover 2

    Cover 2 Pessimists Unite!!!

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    I have no idea why you consider him a finesse player. He is one of the best run blockers in this draft class, and plays with a mean streak on top of that. I would be thrilled if we took him at 9. He's already a right tackle, so we could keep Free and him at their current positions.
  16. RS12

    RS12 Well-Known Member

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    Clay Shiver spent most of his time in the back field sitting on Troys lap IIRC. Maybe the worst NFL Center of all time.
  17. casmith07

    casmith07 I'm the best poster in the game!

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    I spoke to someone whose opinion I respect on the matter, and I don't think Tyron Smith is the kind of player we're looking for.

    I'd much rather have Wisniewski, Carimi, or Sherrod -- maulers that can play with finesse, rather than finesse guys we have to try and coach/strength train into maulers.
  18. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    If we were to get smith I would actually look at him going to the LT slot and put Free at right. Free was =as far as I could see=better at RT then he was at LT. Smith is almost certainly quicker then Free and thus would be better at LT to deal with the speed rushers.
  19. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    I consider him a zone-blocking type of player. He is playing in a zone system now. Dallas has usually went with OL that were more of the road-grading type. There is a big difference in playing ROT in college compared to the NFL. He may become a quality zone-blocking OT in the NFL , but he doesn`t fit the mold of a big , powerfull OT that the Cowboys have went with. He does a good job of walling off on his blocks , but he is not the type of lineman that can man-up in a one-on-one situation and drive a defender back on a NFL level. He is young and may can grow into the part , this makes him a project with potential that really doesn`t fit in Dallas.
  20. Cover 2

    Cover 2 Pessimists Unite!!!

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    He finishes blocks off better than any tackle in this draft. He's got long arms to steer pass rushers outside so the quarterback and step up in the pocket. He's got great feet so nobody will ever blow past him off the snap. He gets great leverage in the run game, and moves his guy off the line of scrimmage. He is a much better run blocker than his weight suggests due to his strength and athleticism.

    Even though he is underweight (he's only 20 btw), he still is more physical than most tackles in this draft, and I can't think of a single one that is more athletic than he is.

    The only question is can he put on the weight necessary to not get pushed around. While it's not guaranteed that he can, it is probable that he will. And if he infact does put on that weight, then look out. I see him as a better run-blocking D'Brickashaw Ferguson.

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