1. Welcome to CowboysZone!  Join us!  Come on!  You know you want to!

Video: The Blitz talks Linebackers - 4/15/09

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by dcfanatic, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. dcfanatic

    dcfanatic Benched

    10,408 Messages
    0 Likes Received
    [youtube]Iy9OkNKvtrY[/youtube]
    ----------------------------

    Would the Cowboys go after another Ohio State Linebacker?

    Do they go after an ILB or a Pass Rushing OLB first?

    Will that 2nd round pick be a LB?

    If we do draft a Pass rushing OLB is Greg Ellis outta here?

    If we do draft an ILB to compete with Carpenter for a role in the defense does he then demand a trade?
  2. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

    7,878 Messages
    0 Likes Received
    I agree with you. I could see Dallas moving back up to snag a rush OLB. Paying Greg Ellis $6.25 million dollars would be beyond stupid. It would be GM malpractice.

    I would take Lawrence Sidbury Jr. at 51. His upside makes him worth that pick, imo. He has a physical skill set that you can't teach. He's in that 2nd-3rd round mix. He could make an immediate contribution and save you some major jack. Plus, he's not a cabbage patch, cry baby and iplayer.

    There is no way that the former Giants' defensive coordinator will pass on him in round 3 if he's still there. He is probably already pushing for him. The Falcons are looking at DEs. They pick at 55. Sidbury JR. has the big upside to his game. Also, he could rush from both sides and be effective. He is going to get stronger. He will have the speed and quickness to rush from the weakside and the size and strength to rush the stong side one day. Sidbury has 34 inch arms. Phillips could have some fun playing Ware, Spencer, and Sidbury Jr. at the same time.

    Look at the Giants.

    They had no problem spending that number one pick on Miathias Kiwanuka when they were already three deep at DE. I would give them some of their own medicine.

    At outside linebacker, I like Jason Williams all the way, but a team like the Titans may draft him in late round 3. He played in a 3-3 front and stunted and rushed the passer in college. He would be a great inside linebacker who could cover and blitz the middle. He could be a three down player down the road.

    Edit:

    Gerald McRath is high-cut like Kevin Burnett. He would be a great coverage linebacker. He's 6-3 and has the height and speed to cover TEs and RBs, especially out of 46 fronts. He's light and would probably only be a nickel and dime linebacker, but he could help you. He would have a role.
  3. cowboyjoe

    cowboyjoe Well-Known Member

    28,103 Messages
    90 Likes Received
    drats, i want sidbury and jason williams too, weve got to get them both someway, then our front 7 is fixed, along with getting a NT like sammie hill in lower rounds, or roy miller
  4. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

    7,878 Messages
    0 Likes Received

    I agree with you, big time, cowboyjoe.

    The Sporting News said Dallas had a Super Bowl caliber defense. I would take Lawrence Sidbury Jr. over every safety in the draft, including CB/FS Sean Smith.

    You win championships up front on defense and the back-end has to hold up, too. Dallas needs 2 safeties in this draft, but they ranked number 5 in the NFL in pass defense last year.

    The Cowboys need a SS who can cover the TE, so DeMarcus Ware doesn't have to do it. Sensabaugh may be that guy. I would draft another guy that could do it, too. They need a SS who can play up and stuff the run and play deep.

    If you are going defense at 51, feed the front.
  5. BAT

    BAT Mr. Fixit

    7,661 Messages
    600 Likes Received
    Even though it may appear that ILB is a greater need, OLB will always be a priority need in a 3-4. Further, OLB talent is greater than ILB talent in this draft.


    41gy and I have our faves at OLB, but I am going to explain why the Cowboys should choose a particular player based on scheme as well as need. First of all, many of the top pass rushers in this draft are not very good against the run. Orakpo and Brown are ranked one or two, almost unanimously. However, from my observations, English is a better pass rusher than either. Sintim is probably the most solid ready to play of them all, as he is the only player who has actually played 3-4 OLB, who is ranked in the first day. More importantly, all the first day pass rushers are best suited for the weakside, with the possible exception of Kruger, this also includes Sidbury. Sidbury for all his size (almost 270) is not very good against the run. He has the size (w/the frame to get bigger) but he lacks the awareness, technique & instincts to recognize and detach against the running game.


    Dallas needs an OLB who can play the strongside, compete against the underachieving Spencer (no one will displace Ware on the weakside). Hence, he has got to be a hard nosed run stopper.


    Cowboys are on a SB mission next season, the OLB who is brought in needs to compete and be able to play (especially the strongside) immediately. Ellis' future in Dallas is murky and Spencer has not been productive, but more importantly, is starting to look injury prone.


    Kruger and Veikune are the best fits IMO. Both are high character all day suckers. While neither Kruger or Veikune time well, they play much faster than they time. Kruger does it w/his ability to diagnose and attack, Veikune does it w/quickness and ability to leverage the edge. Kruger has a limited repetoire of pass rush moves plus short arms (for his size 6'4 260). But his advanced recognition skills, leadership, ability to drop in coverage, chase plays and protect the flats may be best suited inside. He could be a good backup OLB until he learns the ILB spot (he could be a stud inside IMO). Veikune's toughness, strength & agility could also see him move inside, but he is a more natural pass rusher. He also has great awareness and instincts, especiall against the run. And he is Tucker-esque b/c he is strong enough to play DT as well.


    IMO, the best strongside OLB for our team would be Veikune.
  6. cowboyjoe

    cowboyjoe Well-Known Member

    28,103 Messages
    90 Likes Received
    understand that Bat, thats why i want jason williams, and sidbury,

    remember ware had trouble his first year in stopping the run

    so sidbury would push spencer and jason williams is fast enough to eventually play inside, plus he is big enough to play inside too,
  7. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

    7,878 Messages
    0 Likes Received

    You state your case very well, Bat. I still like David Veikune. He's definately underrated. I just don't know about Kruger, though. I have not watched many of these guys play, so I listen to a guy like Bunting who has watched them and studied them. He really likes Veikune like you do, but he says Kruger is a straight-line guy who may be best suited as a rush OLB specialist, a guy who just rushes.

    I have to respectfully disagree about Anthony Spencer. I don't think he has underachieved. You really can't blame him when he's pulled out for Ellis during his rookie year after he was playing well. He decked Eli Manning his very first game and had a big game against the Giants the second time around. He was playing well his rookie season. Now, he did get hurt last year (in the preseason) against a team known for cut-blocking (Denver). However, he was very impressive in training camp and was ready to carry the full load. It isn't his fault that he's being pulled off the field on 3rd down. Lamar Woodley never had to play behind Greg Ellis.

    Plus, why was Anthony Spencer still covering kicks coming off that knee scope?

    That is on the organization or trainers or coaches or all of them. He hurt his hamstring after the scope. Why is he doing all that running on special teams when it wasn't necessary, after that knee scope? It wasn't worth risking even though the Cowboys' special teams coverage was poor. Spencer had no business playing special teams when he was just coming back from a knee injury. Honestly, I thought it was stupid.

    Ware is going to need some rest, and Sidbury should be able to rush from both sides. During his rookie year, you can sheild him from the run while he gets stronger and learns the game. You simply put him in the Cowboys package and put him in positions to succeed. That means rush the passer.
  8. BAT

    BAT Mr. Fixit

    7,661 Messages
    600 Likes Received
    I want Jason Williams too. If not possible, then Phillips or Hodge.


    But Sidbury is more likely to develop quicker (and develop he needs to do still) playing the weakside. Where all he is asked to do (for the most part) is rush the passer. The strongside not only has to stop the run, but usually has most of the coverage responsibilities (over the TE). Sidbury has little to no coverage experience PLUS he is average to below average vs the run. Sidbury will not be able to push Spencer, not for a few seasons anyway. He has all the athletic potential (like Melton) but seriously lacks understanding of the game (like Melton) and experience against top notch players (unlike Melton), which showed in the SR Bowl.


    Unfortunate for Sidbury (fortunate for Cowboys' fans), Ware has the weakside locked up.


    However, if the Cowboys take Sidbury, I will not pout. I will be a Sidbury fan.
  9. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

    7,878 Messages
    0 Likes Received
    Teams Lawrence Sidbury Jr. has visited:

    Browns
    Dolphins
    Ravens
    Bills
    Eagles
    Cowboys
    Rams
    Titans
    Patriots

    The Browns, Dolphins, and Ravens had their linebacker coaches at his pro day, and Carolina's GM was there. I would look out for those teams in bold and the Panthers.

    The fact that Sidbury Jr. does need to get stronger against the run, may get him by some of these teams, especially the 2-gapping, 34 teams like NE, Cleveland, and Miami.

    Plus, Greg Ellis wasn't exactly tearing it up last year against the run (see the Rams game).





    Teams Jason Williams has visited:

    Colts
    Jaguars
    Titans
    Browns
    Dolphins
    Patriots
    Packers
    Vikings
    Bucs
    Seahawks
  10. BAT

    BAT Mr. Fixit

    7,661 Messages
    600 Likes Received
    First of all, it is always a pleasure talking football w/you. As for Spencer, I only call it like I see it. He was injured before the season, and during the season. Spencer did show glimpses as a pass rusher, but was actually better against the run his rook year. In 2008, he was out of position a lot and had trouble holding the edge. He was at his best attacking the QB, got a lot of QB hits, just not a lot of sacks.


    It looks like Ellis is as good as gone. What if Spencer goes down again? Sidbury would be forced to start on the strongside. Or more likely, Dallas will move Ware to the strongside and take their chances with Sidbury on the weakside. That would be a huge blow to the team. HUGE.


    I agree w/Bunting about Veikune, but not so much about Kruger. I do think Kruger is a better fit inside eventually (strongside ILB). But he would be passable as a backup OLB. He is smart, strong & he has very good awareness (which makes up for his athletic shortcomings). Kruger may not have Sidbury's athleticism, but he has what Sidbury seriously lacks, intangibles and instincts. Long term, I take Sidbury over Kruger if all I want is a future OLB. But Dallas cannot think that far ahead, they need players to help them win now.


    In any event, I would take Veikune over Sidbury. I just love his physicality & do whatever it takes attitude. He can contribute immediately, and aside from his instincts, hustle & playing speed, Veikune generates turnovers with his explosive tackling.
  11. dcfanatic

    dcfanatic Benched

    10,408 Messages
    0 Likes Received
    You know what worries me about him and why I would not draft him before round four.

    1. He's not a true anything: He could be a DE, OLB or a NT. From reports he could get even bigger because he has the frame to do so.

    2. The teams that he played against: Are we really impressed with La. Tech, Nevada, Utah St., Idaho, etc?

    Some of these games where he puts up numbers were against teams that were not very good and they had to travel to Hawaii to play him.

    Of the four ranked teams he played against last season he wound up with 1 of his 9 sacks in those games. He had 2.5 of his 16.5 TFL's in those games.

    I saw him against Notre Dame in their 'home' game in the Hawaii Bowl and I never even heard his name called.

    Where are the big numbers against the big teams?
  12. BAT

    BAT Mr. Fixit

    7,661 Messages
    600 Likes Received
    Asked and answered.
  13. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

    7,878 Messages
    0 Likes Received

    Same here. There is certainly nothing wrong with different points of view. I'm certainly not a scout. I'm not sure what Dallas will do, but they need to get a good player in that role.

    We both agree that Dallas needs impact players now. They could use at least three or four of them this year. That will add to the five they drafted last year.

    I hope the team is open to drafting a pass rusher, a guard, a NT, or a WR at 51 or 69, because all this Louis Delmas talk concerns me a bit, quite honestly. I'm with you, I wasn't all that thrilled with Stewart's board. Where was Sharrod Martin and Rashad Johnson? Plus, Phillips' earlier talk of a "defensive draft" has me a little worried.

    A repeat of the 2006 draft can't happen.

    The 2006 "Parcells Last Stand Draft":

    Bobby Carpenter
    Anthony Fasano
    Skyler Green
    Pat Watkins
    Montavious Stanley
    Pat McQuistan
    E.J. Whitley

    I just don't get all this "the Cowboys must get a FS at 51".

    To all these people I say ths:

    Willis Magahee is still running.

    LaRon McClain is still running.

    Dallas had the number 5 pass defense in the NFL last year.

    DeMarcus Ware was put on the TE, in the Baltimore game, in the redzone, because the SS couldn't cover him. S.F. exploited it. Seattle did the same. That is basically the only way they (S.F. and Seattle) moved the ball. Ware did a good job, but the TE had a half a step on him down the field. Plus, we don't want Ware covering TEs in the redzone.

    I still like Chip Vaughn. He has the size and speed that I like. He can play up or back. William Moore would be good if you get the 2007 version, but I would rather have Vaughn in round 3. Vaughn is better in coverage, so I give him the edge over Patrick Chung. That is just my opinion.

    The Cowboys would be wise to take a long, hard look at Tennessee CB/FS, DeAngelo Willingham. I didn't realize teams were viewing him as primarily a FS. He is 5-11, 217 and runs a 4.46. They need to draft a safety in the later rounds, and this guy could replace Watkins or Brown and play special teams. He would give you depth at CB and could be groomed for FS.
  14. BAT

    BAT Mr. Fixit

    7,661 Messages
    600 Likes Received
    Another corner/safety tweener I like is Lardarius Webb. He is short (5'10) but he has 4.35 speed and plays like it. He is a playmaker, whether it is at corner, safety, slot receiver or returner. He is a TD waiting to happen. Plays very confident and very physical against the run. May be too aggressive at times.
  15. Woods

    Woods Active Member

    12,375 Messages
    11 Likes Received
    Chung time?

    I had him in my original mock, then removed him.

    But I'm thinking maybe he's the guy.

    I think he can cover the TE and he definitely can play up and stuff the run.
  16. dcfanatic

    dcfanatic Benched

    10,408 Messages
    0 Likes Received
    Yeah, you answered and made my point.

    He's not worthy of a fourth round pick.

    Teams focused on him and shut him down. And that was at the college level.

    I never for one second thought Orakpo could be a OLB, check my mock draft. I have him going to the Bengals as a DE. Neither is flexible enough to bend the edge like Ware does.

    And that's the answer for Sidbury. He's a better athlete than Veikune. Both he and English do that much better than Veikune.

    Veikune takes short strides off the edge. That's not going to be beat many NFL tackles. And his strength, which he used in college, will not help him at this level.

    Not sure why you seem offended that I don't like Veikune as much as you do, but if you can find me 10 people who like him over English and Sidbury I would be amazed.

    None of them are Demarcus Ware, but look at the three of them move and tell me Veikune projects to be a better edge pass rusher and I would tell you that you need glasses.

    [youtube]vpQOlBUGz58[/youtube]

    [youtube]cPydgMoTs04[/youtube]

    [youtube]3Ad0Famkaas[/youtube]
  17. SLATEmosphere

    SLATEmosphere Benched

    9,633 Messages
    0 Likes Received
    People talking about Veikune have obviously not watched him play. He isn't that great..in fact he isn't even that good. He's slow rushing the passer and has ZERO moves. He got away with alot in college because of his strength. Well guess what? When you get to the NFL that "strength" wont do much against those NFL T's..Sidbury,English,Sintim and Jason Williams are my choices for OLB.
  18. BAT

    BAT Mr. Fixit

    7,661 Messages
    600 Likes Received
    Not my intention to come off as offended, that's why I apologized in an earlier post in this thread if it appeared that way.


    I have never compared Veikune to Ware, that is certainly preposterous, but even Ware can be shut down if there is no else to alleviate pressure on him. And not many players can compare to Ware, his preternatural ability to bend the edge while getting so low is one of his unique characteristics, no one in this draft compares, not even close.


    But you are wrong on Veikune, he has the ability to leverage the edge, more consistently than Sidbury. Veikune is still learning, but he has better technique and hand work than Sidbury, who is completely raw. And while Veikune does not have the crazy measurables of Sidbury, at least he plays faster than he times, Sidbury has yet to do so consistently_one of the negatives on Sidbury is that he does not play as fast as he times (he is also raw as steak tartar & is an average, at best, run defender).


    My very first post, I stated that English was the best pass rusher in this draft and it was an injustice that Orakpo and Brown were rated above him. But English is at his best on the weakside (like all the first round OLBs, except maybe Ayers), he is unproven in coverage and stopping the run is not a strength. The Cowboys do not need a weakside OLB, they need a strongside OLB, to push Spencer.


    I like Veikune b/c he is great value (you seriously do not believe he is worth a FOURTH? GREAT!! Maybe he slips to us in the 5th) PLUS will be a better fit on the strongside. We will have to disagree then, b/c I believe his strength will be a great asset in the NFL, especially on the strongside.



    On an entirely different note, anyone else have trouble getting audio on DC's vids?
  19. BAT

    BAT Mr. Fixit

    7,661 Messages
    600 Likes Received
    On the Jason Williams bandwagon now I see. Williams will be a 3-4 ILB or a 4-3 OLB at the next level. Williams may be able to do spot duty as an OLB in a 3-4 but his skillset is not being maximized there IMO.


    Strongside pass rushers (whether 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB, need strength b/c they are called on to stack and shed in the run game, a LOT). Zero moves? Sounds like you are describing Sidbury. Oh, wait, Sidbury has 2 moves, speed and that pretty spin you love so much. :laugh2:


    So I have not watched Veikune play? "Obviously", no less. Cowboys must not be as smart as you either, "obviously", since they worked him out. Be honest, other than the dc pro day vid, how many Hawaii games have YOU watched? Clowns are funny. :lmao2:
  20. SLATEmosphere

    SLATEmosphere Benched

    9,633 Messages
    0 Likes Received
    Speed and a spin move is a pretty deadly skill set. Just ask Dwight Freeney. You are sure getting pretty hot n heavy over some trashy player. I've seen 3 Hawaii games this year and his name barely got called..I barely knew who he was till a month ago. Not sure who you are calling a "clown" but I hope you arn't calling me one. Your the only person that is in love with this guy..pretty sure the Clown is you.

Share This Page