Vince McMahon's list of the top 5 wrestlers of all time...

Discussion in 'Sports Zone' started by MichaelWinicki, Feb 28, 2014.

  1. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    Austin was great heel before he turned face in the WWE.

    He also was a great heel in WCW, just badly under-pushed because WCW was...well....WCW.

    He went to ECW for a short while and played the tweener role perfectly.


    The Rock was a decent heel before turning face. But that was more due to him being such a white meat babyface that was shoved down the fans throats when he first started working with the company. The fans, particular Madison Square Garden, booed him out of the building. So they had to turn him heel and most of his heat still revolved around his initial push. He then became cool and funny and created the character he has now. Everytime they’ve tried to get him back to heel, it just doesn’t get over. It’s certainly far better to pull off one character extremely well doing 10 different characters and getting a lukewarm reaction. But as far as that goes with Austin, I don’t see a comparison.





    YR
  2. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    Austin’s early feuds were with Bret Hart and then Shawn Michaels. While great wrestlers, they were not huge draws. In fact, Michaels was one of the worst drawing champs in WWWF/WWF/WWE history. While this was going on, Undertaker and HHH were with the company. Everything changed when Austin was finally give carte blanche over his character and then they had the double turn against Hart. It then went to another level after the Montreal Screwjob and Vince giving the reigns over to Austin and more or less phasing Michaels out.


    While I think UT and Michaels are very talented, their ability to draw was questionable at best before Austin. And then Austin sent the company well past WCW which had been beating them in the ratings for a year straight and eventually into the stratosphere. It also helped that Austin generally had a great attitude as the main event compared to Hogan, Michaels, Nash, etc…who were more concerned with being the top guy instead of making the company money.


    The Iron Shiek was massively over in several territories before coming to the WWF where he was massively over as a heel. Piper was hugely over in Oregon, LA and the Mid-Atlantic before coming to the WWF. Andre was a spectacular draw that finally turned heel. Terry Funk was a huge draw in Texas, Memphis, Mid-Atlantic, Puerto Rico and Japan. Savage was hugely over in Kentucky, Florida and Memphis.


    With Austin, he has some talented wrestlers, but none of them where proven, over, money-drawing heels like what Hogan had lined up for him. The only one I would put up there with the Hogan heels is Vince. He wasn’t exactly a proven heel, but he may have been had he been put in the position before. And I still wonder if Vince would have been as big of a heel if Austin was not so over as a face. Either way, look at the WWF’s business just prior to Austin versus its business when Austin shed the Ringmaster gimmick…then to Austin turning face….then Austin confronting Mike Tyson. The numbers don’t lie.







    YR
  3. Manwiththeplan

    Manwiththeplan Well-Known Member

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    Which is why I would never argue HBK or UT over Austin. No debate imo and while I would put Hogan first, I don't think it's a forgone conclusion.


    I'm pretty sure the WWF would've faired worse with any of these guys as the face of the promotion. They were all no doubt great heels (Andre being a great baby face that turned into a great heel) and Savage even proved to be a national main event star, but HBK, UT and Brett Hart were all main eventers before Austin.

    My stance isn't anti Austin, I just disagree with some of the knocks you said about a few other guys.
  4. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

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    They announced it on Smackdown. The replay will be shown on Raw I'm sure. My son said "daddy who is that you never mentioned him before."
  5. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    Colon was a great wrestler but he was pretty much limited to Puerto Rico, with limited outside PR.

    Must be Vince is trying to make inroads into Puerto Rico! LOL!
  6. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

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    Another announced tonight on Raw - Mr. T!
  7. Manwiththeplan

    Manwiththeplan Well-Known Member

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    And fwiw, Austin's heel turn towards the end of his career didn't work at all and lead to a huge ratings drop.
  8. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    I am surprised that Mick Foley hasn't been mentioned on some level. The classic match with the UT with Foley going off the top of the steel cage was an all-time great match. He is not a top ten guy, but he gave his all in his matches.
  9. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    According the WWE/Vince list, Foley was #33.

    Foley was amazing. Just like you say, he gave everything he had.

    I personally wouldn't rate him in the top-50 all time. He gets high marks for the shear punishment he sustained in the ring. But his wrestling ability was about zip. His mike-work wasn't anything memorable. Funk, Brody, Abdullah the Butcher, The Sheik... all were terrific brawlers like Foley and all should be rated higher than Mick... not that I would include Abdullah and the Sheik in a top-50 list either.
  10. BraveHeartFan

    BraveHeartFan We got a hat. I want a ring.

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    I couldn't disagree more about the mic work. To me Foley is one of the all time greats on the mic. The guy could do it all. Comedy, dramatic, eerie, all of the stuff. He was great as a heel or a good guy. I know it's not WWE but to me he had the best series of promos of all time in ECW when he was doing his Anti-Hardcore thing. That was the best series of promos by anyone I've ever seen. The guy was just flat awesome on the mic.
  11. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    You know I had forgotten about the ECW stuff.

    You're right. He was better with the mic than I originally gave him credit for.

    I still don't consider him to be on the level of Abdullah and Brody but he certainly left a legacy.
    BraveHeartFan likes this.
  12. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

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    Add Razor Ramon (aka Scott Hall)
  13. Manwiththeplan

    Manwiththeplan Well-Known Member

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    That's good. I'm a huge Scott Hall and Kevin Nash fan, and am glad that Hall seems to be getting his life together and is getting in the HoF.
  14. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

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    I am very anxious to see what he looks like at the HOF because he looked like complete crap the last few years. Hopefully Big Sexy will be there and make an appearance at WMXXX.
  15. Manwiththeplan

    Manwiththeplan Well-Known Member

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    DDP helped him get his life together and right now, I think he's sober. I saw a video a while back addressing the HoF rumors and while he is over weight, he looks a lot better than he did a few years ago.
  16. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    Just for the record, Vince did not include the Ultimate Warrior is his top-50 list that came out a couple years ago.

    I wouldn't of either.
  17. Manwiththeplan

    Manwiththeplan Well-Known Member

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    I've never given a top 50 list any thought, but I doubt Warrior would be in mine.
  18. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    The guy had charisma. That's a big plus. Fans loved his shtick. But his ability to work? Not good. His mic skills? Bad. Could he wrestle? Not a lick. Did he leave a legacy? Not really.

    And he was only in the game for like 13 years, which is a very short career when it comes to pro wrestling. About the only guy I can think of who I would rate in my top-50 who had about as short a career was Brody and his career was only a little longer until he had his unfortunate end... But Brody seemed to be everywhere during his career. He would show up in just about any promotion for a brief time and then go somewhere else. The result being that he did seem to be everywhere and fans everywhere got to see him.
  19. Manwiththeplan

    Manwiththeplan Well-Known Member

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    Was Warrior even it for 13 years? I almost don't even want to count his 1996 comeback that only lasted a few months or his complete failure of a run in WCW, that was even shorter. To me, his career was from 85-91, which despite his success, means very little
  20. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    He certainly did not impact the wrestling world for very long.

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