Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by ConcordCowboy, Apr 20, 2009.
Ok Sheep Boy...now go sing Change and Hope.
God Rest their Souls,
Suspect, Concord, how soon we forget
Those two make the founding fathers turn on their graves.
Nah dude its cool
Jesus is a Republican
Ok but seriously, as far as this "torture" goes, I doubt very much our founding fathers would be pleased, but hey I don't give a crap. Does that make me a bad person, i don't know, but I don't think sleep deprevation and making someone feel like they are drowning is quite in the same league as the Rack, the Iron Maiden, or ripping out someone's entrails. I don't care if a terrorist gets roughed up during interrogation.
The difference between your view of this and my commentary is that I am not trying to make a case of right or wrong. I am simply telling the truth. In my opinion, this is not about right or wrong. This is about survival. You are not going to understand that and I get that. However, it doesn't change the fact that torture, however distasteful to you and many others, is effective and it does work.
War is not a pretty thing and this is just part of what happens in war.
And from this you draw the conclusion that Eric Holder's 2002 position was that he supported various forms of torture including waterboarding? Buddy, you are hallucinating.
All Holder did here - was express an opinion regarding the status of detainees re the Geneva Conventions. But you make the leap from this to his endorsement of torture. That's a helluva jump there, Evel Kneivel.
Next you'll be trying to sell me that the future US Attorney General was unaware that we have our own US laws preventing the use of torture - regardless of the Geneva Conventions.
Sorry, no sale.
Blair said that he "also strongly supported the president when he declared that we would no longer use enhanced interrogation techniques. We do not need these techniques to keep America safe.
"The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means. The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security," Blair concluded.
The fact that we haven't been attacked since 9/11 has to be chalked up to the use of torture? Prove it.
The awfully scary "Buffalo plot"? Mmmm - not really.
By "the one to blow up the bridge in NY" I assume you may be referring to would-be terrorist Iyman Faris and his ambitious plot to take out the Brooklyn bridge - using a blowtorch. It shook you so bad that you can't even remember it.
But you're confused if you think ANY quantity of "actionable intelligence" would impress me enough to feel it's worth selling our country's principles down the river. Those principles are a major part of what has separated us from the ruthless, the fanatical, and the villainous enemies we have periodically been pitted against throughout our history as a nation. Or have you forgotten that, too?
I haven't forgotten. But where the enemy has succeeded in dragging you down to their level - they haven't done so with me. I believe the greater principles of this country should be held just as tightly in tumultuous times of conflict as they are in more convenient times. Maybe even more so. Otherwise they are just an illusion.
And your words have confirmed what YOU think of those principles.
I'm ecstatic to say that YOUR truth - is NOTHING like mine.
This is EXACTLY about right and wrong. It's about maintaining OUR identity - and in the face of ANY enemy.
That's what I thought...talking out your *** and acting like you know what you're talking about as usual.
Hey McVeigh just go down into the bunker and start planning your assault.
Your post is **** all stupid...and no surprise here...Artie agreed with you.
Wow. YOu really keep proving that you care more about the terrorists than you do about your own people. Pathetic. To think that the Buffalo cell wasn't a threat, to think that taking out the Brooklyn Bridge wasn't a threat, to think that flying planes into a building in LA wasn't a threat. You would have rather NOT had the information and let Americans die than to extract the information and let them live.
You are a disgrace to this country.
I'm sure you are. Just as I am equally "Ecstatic" about the fact that we are still here, you are still alive and able to post your opinions.
Hate what I am saying, it is not something that I have not experienced before. The reality of the situation is very different then American perceptions of right and wrong unfortunately. I wish I could say that the world believes in your ideas of right and wrong. They do not and that single reality is played out every day. Hate me if you will but I am not wrong.
I don't hate you, ABQ - I just strongly disagree with your rationalization of torture. More for what I feel it says about us than whatever effects it may have had on the recipients.
Well, I am genuinely happy to hear you say that you do not hate me. I hope you don't hate people who may be like me either.
I don't know what to tell you Suspect. It is a matter of seeing things in my life that make me realize that we don't live in a very friendly world. I know it's not something any American likes to think America does. I know it's not something I would want young people to be taught. I know it's not the best side of who and what we are. Unfortunately, I also know it's never going to change. If people are prosecuted, bad things will happen. Bad things for those who are prosecuted, bad things for those who push for the prosecution, bad things for our Country and nothing will really change. These kinds of things will continue to go on, be it under the covers or with the knowledge of our Government. Information is much to valuable a commodity. If we don't do it, we will pay somebody rediculous amounts of money to do it and the information we are paying for will only be subject to manipulation by whomever is supplying it.
I'm sorry, it's just how the world is Suspect. Not like I ever imagined it would be when I was a boy. Just how it turned out.
Those involved in intelligence go through waterboarding themselves...
Waterboarding techniques are very stringent and regimented...
I have no problem with it whatsoever...
WG edited your post...now that is macho...NOT!
Jordan 55 and folks like me make countries...you and your pansy kind destroys them.
Oh good lord. Seriously?
I circumvented the language filter just for you and she fixed my error.
Shouldn't you be on Military.com slamming them for being soft and hating America?
I didn't think so, you don't have the nads for that.
People like you are exactly what is WRONG and SCREWED up about this Country.
Yeah like these guys never break the rules.