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What are the responsibilities of Government???

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Cajuncowboy, May 3, 2004.

  1. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    The debates we have been having on this board are debates that are raging across this country. But what are truley the responsibilities of Government when it comes to legislation? For example. If the vast majority of the country is opposed to a particular practice is it not the governments resposibility to ensure that no federal funds be spent on such activities. Isn't that the essence of representitive government?

    Also, what about the federal governments resposnsibility with regards to our tax dollars? If I am against Gay marriage then should the government not provide domestic partner benefits to these couples if my viewpoint is held by the vast majority?

    Should we legislate morality? Another question that poses great debate. I do not believe that we should make it illeagle for homosexuals to practice this lifestyle but they need to be aware that they will be looked at as out of the norm and that their behavior will not be accepted by many. To decry the despise they will get because of it is disingenuine. They as a minority with respect to their populous have to understand that they are not going to gain an even foothold in scociety because of it. And to cry foul over it makes no sense.

    The majority of the country is anti abortion, however we have a law that allows it. We also use federal funds to help prop up this act by funnelling tax dollars into this industry. That is an improper use of tax dollars because goes against the majority wishes.

    The point of this thread is to gauge the views on federal responsibility with respect to majority view. Just thought it would be interesting to get everyones take on overall government responsibility as opposed to just one topic.
  2. AtlCB

    AtlCB Active Member

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    Part of the responsibility of government is to protect the rights of the individual. An example would be if Joe wants to drive a yellow car. The majority of the people think yellow cars are ugly and shouldn't be driven on the road. Should a law be passed banning yellow cars? Are we violating Joe's rights by not allowing him to drive his yellow car?

    I agree that the federal government has a responsiblility with our tax dollars. I think this responsibility deals with the efficient, responsible use of our tax dollars. As a taxpayer, I do not believe that the federal government is efficiently or responsibly using our money. Unfortunately, I don't see how your example really applies. Personally, I don't really care who another person wants to spend the rest of their life with or what they do behind closed doors. I don't see how a homosexual marriage costs more in domestic partner benefits than a heterosexual marriage would. These homosexuals could also bring in more tax dollars due to the marriage penalty.

    I disagree with the government legislating morality. I also disagree that it is OK for us to discriminate. I can see where this could be a problem if the homosexual is "flaming," but some of these people are as normal as you and I - they simply decide to take a partner of the same sex. I don't agree with it, but their choice does not affect me in any way. I even see this as a benefit. This behavior leaves more women for the rest of us!

    I'm not sure that I agree that the majority of the country is anti-abortion. Most polls that I have seen show the opposite. The big question is when does life officially begin and when do we first recognize a new citizen. I believe this is a medical question and shouldn't be a religious one.

    Our country is founded on the idea that elected representatives should make laws that represent the people, as long as these laws do not violate our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
  3. Gaede

    Gaede Well-Known Member

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    the majority should not be given free rule simply because they outnumber everyone else
  4. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    No we shouldn't ban yellow cars. THere has to be some sense of reality here.

    [/QUOTE]I agree that the federal government has a responsiblility with our tax dollars. I think this responsibility deals with the efficient, responsible use of our tax dollars. As a taxpayer, I do not believe that the federal government is efficiently or responsibly using our money. Unfortunately, I don't see how your example really applies. Personally, I don't really care who another person wants to spend the rest of their life with or what they do behind closed doors. I don't see how a homosexual marriage costs more in domestic partner benefits than a heterosexual marriage would. These homosexuals could also bring in more tax dollars due to the marriage penalty. [/QUOTE]

    Here is why it applies. It is a health care fact that Homosexuals have a much higher Dr. and medical bill than those who are not. Not withstanding the Aids crisis, there are numerous other problems associated with this. The additional burden placed on the tax payers to cover their benefits would place undo strain on the tax base.

    [/QUOTE]I disagree with the government legislating morality. I also disagree that it is OK for us to discriminate. I can see where this could be a problem if the homosexual is "flaming," but some of these people are as normal as you and I - they simply decide to take a partner of the same sex. I don't agree with it, but their choice does not affect me in any way. I even see this as a benefit. This behavior leaves more women for the rest of us!.[/QUOTE]

    I am not saying discriminate against them but the point was that they should not expect that they would enjoy the same benefits of a traditional couple. The institution of marriage was not formed for that purpose nor was the benefits that go with it.

    [/QUOTE]I'm not sure that I agree that the majority of the country is anti-abortion. Most polls that I have seen show the opposite. The big question is when does life officially begin and when do we first recognize a new citizen. I believe this is a medical question and shouldn't be a religious one.[/QUOTE]

    Don't know what polls you are reading but they are not the main stream polls. OVer 70% of Americans reject partial birth abortion while over 60% reject abortion overall. Especially as a form of birth control.

    [/QUOTE]Our country is founded on the idea that elected representatives should make laws that represent the people, as long as these laws do not violate our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.[/QUOTE]

    True, however the people still need to live within the norm of society otherwise they are open to the fallout of their actions. Knowing this, if they want to practice thier lifestyles they should not expect to shove their beliefs down the throasts of main stream America as is done today in academia.
  5. AtlCB

    AtlCB Active Member

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    I would think that those who want to get married are actually practicing safe sex. I also do not see how allowing them to get married would increase these medical bills. I would think that allowing them to get married would actually decrease their medical bills, since cheating on the other would actually have some financial consequences.

    You could call this a civil union. I don't see why either side should have a problem with this.

    I'm sure if you asked the questions about partial birth abortion and using abortion as a form of birth control, I don't know many who would disagree with you. Unfortunately, this debate isn't that simple. I don't consider myself pro-choice or pro-like, because I believe both groups are too radical to ever come up with a reasonable solution.

    I agree that these ideas should not be shoved down the throats of main stream America. Personally, I would never watch any of these ridiculous homo shows out there or the disgusting parades they periodically have. A lot of the negative ideas about this group are brought on by certain members of this group. A very vocal minority of these people participate in unsafe practices and shove their beliefs in our faces.

    Let us not forget that members of our own group (heterosexuals) also practice unsafe sexual habits and shove their beliefs in our faces as well.
  6. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    Not sure how protecting the life of an unborn baby is radical but I guess in some areas it is. See this is how society has evolved into a moral conundrum whereby we have to ask these moral and sociatal questions.
  7. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Bad Santa Staff Member

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    When you are trying to save an unborn life....by firebombing or outright killing people who work at clinics...that could be considered radical.

    I tend to agree with Atlcb on that issue...it is not the peaceful people that bother me...it is the radicals that show that they are so wild that they would rather die then have a civil debate with the other party to try and work something out.

    And with that I will stay out of any further discussions on the issue.
  8. Gaede

    Gaede Well-Known Member

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    Cajun, people don't have to 'live within the norm of society'...

    We all have a right to be deviant, so long as we don't hurt anyone or destroy anything
  9. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    If that is what he meant then I would agree. There is no way that anyone can justify fire bombing a clinic in the name of Jesus or anything else. That just makes them as bad as the lunatics on 9/11. I certainly don't condone that and if I gave that impression somehow, it was not meant.
  10. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    I did not say they HAD to live within the norm of society. I just said that when they don't they have to expect that it will not be accepted by many people and that they should not go on a crusade to shove it down our throats. Everything from allowing Planned Parenthood in schools to pass out literature to books on the homosexual agenda are just the tip of the iceberg as far as indoctrinating children into a lifestyle that is outside the norm of society. Then when they get out in the real world and find that it is not accepted it makes their lives much tougher if they choose that path. That is my point to this.
  11. Eric_Boyer

    Eric_Boyer Well-Known Member

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    What is a homosexual agenda?
  12. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Bad Santa Staff Member

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    You are a very mean man Eric.....hanging that out there....Oh how I would like to say this person or that person but I must restrain myself....once again you are a MEAN man Eric :p


    Now the joking part out of the way (and this is not addressed to Eric or anyone in particular)....Maybe it is just me...but IMO people are way to homophobic in this land....I am not sure if they just hate homosexuals or are just afraid they may be one and try to go overboard in the denial to those around them.

    I really do not know, and I am in NO way saying anyone is any of those things I mentioned.....but in general I can joke around about the issue but in all honesty homosexuals do not scare me and I am not frightened by them being around in any area....sure I may not care to see two grown mean kissing, but that is just because that it is not my thing....but in the long run I do not feel the need to go on any crusades to say YES or NO to any of the gay issues in america today.

    I have a good friend that is gay...at one time I was not sure if he was gay or just kind of feminine (sp?).
    Shortly after I got out of the army I moved back into my parents house while I got another job and started looking for a place to live. When I got the new job there was a guy that was an older brother of a friend of mine...I knew of him but did not really know him at the time.....He seemed like a nice guy and someone said he was looking for a place to live as well.

    So for about a year or so we shared a place....later he told me he was gay, he had never bothered me about stuff or came on to me in any way. He would often ask me questions and I would answer honestly. I was NEVER worried about him trying to do something to me in a homosexual way, even though I believe he kind of liked me that way.
    Once again I was ok with my sexuality so it never really bothered me.

    Later as I was dating my future wife I moved out and me and my wife bought a place. Later this guy introduced me to his boyfriend and his boyfriend was a very nice guy...youwould never guess this guy was gay by the stereotypes.

    Anyways he asked me and the wife to join him and his boyfriend and goto a gay bar. The wife was kind of worried but once again that stuff does not bother me.

    I can honestly say the atmosphere of the bar was a surprise...it was much nicer then the type of bars in our area and everyone was nice but not in a sexual way...just nice people...no one bothered me or tried to get dirty.
    I did have a guy compliment me on my hair but once he realized I was married he went away LOL.

    Now I am sure some will start ragging on me about all this stuff...but in all honesty this stuff does not bother me...Homosexuals are people just like the rest of us...they just happen to like other things in the sexual department....too bad they get treated like they are a bunch of freaks just because they do not like the same things you or I like.


    Once again not saying anyone is doing that....but it does boggle my mind why some seem so afraid to let gays live their lives the way they want to as long as they are not having sex in public (which applies to everyone anyways).
    Hey I am not saying you have to like it, but just because someone loving another person of the same sex maybe against your religion or your moral fiber...does NOT mean it is wrong that they can live their lives IMO.

    If I did not think people should do stuff just because it is against what I may feel (religious wise) then I would never see many things on TV (televangelist), never see the church people at my doorstep, never have church people leaving stuff on my car, never have people up on a pulpit telling us how to run other peoples lifes instead of worrying about their own.

    I mean I would really hate for some religious group having power over the government that says I could not get married because I am not christian or I have Long hair, or because I have tattoos or any other reason....I would hate the idea that I could not get married to my wife because we can not have children.

    Ok...I have rambled on too long on this topic...I just hope it does not lead to people going overboard because I do not wish for it to go that direction...only civil debates or talks without things getting personal.
  13. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    I thought you were ignoring me? Oh well. The agenda they try to push is to get children in school to view it as a viable alternative to heterosexual partnerships. The school is no place for it. Don't know what your driving at but that's it.
  14. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    Look, I'm not trying to say they have no business existing. It's a fact they do, my point is that it is not the norm for society and they try to push it down our throats with everything from Gay day at Disney to prancing up and down 5th avenue on Gay pride day. That is shoving down our throats. And if you hold a Christian belief then you know that it is sin and you need to teach your children it is wrong and to have the school system try to undo what you teach as values is an improper use of the tax dollars in the school system. I don't want these people beat and killed because they are agy, but I also don't think society should be burdened with their lifestyle being flaunted in our face. Personally, how one guy can look at another guy's hairy rear end and go "woah, baby, I need me some of that!" is way beyond my comprehension anyway.
  15. Eric_Boyer

    Eric_Boyer Well-Known Member

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    Homosexuality has existed for as long as man has existed. That seems pretty viable to me? I think the schools agenda is to teach compassion for diversity. Apparently this is a radical concept for you.

    Who dictates what is or isn't allowed in school anyway? You say the school is no place for it so I assume you have given this some thought? It seems I could replace the word homosexual with communist and sink right back into the mid 50's. It sure looks like a bunch of nonsense if you ask me. Homophobia is more likely to domino then homosexuality.

    Oh, and I thought you were imposing a self-ban on the political forum? Oh well. I wasn't paying attention to who I replied to, maybe you weren't paying attention to which forum you replied to?

    I could say the same thing about christianity. You seem to think being in the majority on an issue gives you free reign. Protecting minorities should always be the primary concern for a democracy but apparently you don't see it that way.

    So basically anything you agree with is proper use of tax dollars and anything you don't agree with is improper use.
  16. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Bad Santa Staff Member

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    You know with the exception of your last line (which I happen to agree with you)....well...the rest of your post I could change the word gay and put in the word Christian and I would feel about the same way.

    I know way more christians that flaunt their lifestyle in my face, try to force their beliefs in my face...and they tend to go a step further by trying to judge other people just because they do not believe the way they do.

    I am in NO way going to get in a religious debate...it serves no one any good because we will never change each others minds...but I will say this...IMO (and history is on my side) the christians and religion in general have caused more death and sorrow by forcing their beliefs on the people in the world then any homosexual person or group could ever hope to do to society.

    The world would be a better place IMO if people did not have to resort to religion to judge what is right and wrong with other people....gee you would think that with all that the jewish and christians have been through for their beliefs they would be a little more understand when dealing with other peoples beliefs. I would think that even though they may not like it, they could look past some things and let other people live their lives instead of trying to force their own morality (or ideal of morality) on people just because they think they are better.
  17. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Bad Santa Staff Member

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    Are you asking this to support an argument you had before?
    I was thinking you were going down that road before but on a different topic...thinking it was giving aid to some other countries or charities.
  18. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    You completley don't get it. I simply said that no one has the right to force a belife, be it Christian or otherwise, down anyone elses throat. If actually read the post you will that my point is that that is what is happening with the gays in this country. They force it down our throats. (so to speak). I do not judge the person but I do the sin. I am a Christian and I certainly have no respect for them however, that doesnot mean I want them persecuted. Most every one of my values is shaped by my beliefs. If I felt otherwise I would betray my own faith. Those without faith can not understand that. I don't condem anyone for not having faith. That is their call and not my place. Another higher power will do that. However as for the majority issue, that is why we vote people into office to vote the way we want them to. Also, your take on the schools teaching compassion is BS. It is not compassion they are teaching or the other feel good word, tolerance. They are teaching that it is an acceptable lifestyle, just like abortion is an acceptable "Choice". That is the feel good left who wants to keep murders alive in jail and kill the babies. They all pretty much in the same boat.
    And by the way, new board, so I have decided to enact my right to debate these issues on this new board. I know you guys don't like it because you know that I give you facts to discredit your positions but that's too bad.
  19. Eric_Boyer

    Eric_Boyer Well-Known Member

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    Not really...although actually the topic is the same; what is the role of the federal goverment. I asked because it seems he hasn't put much thought into what he was writing. He has an idea of what is proper and inproper use of tax dollars. apparently teaching understanding of people that are different is not "proper".

    Like you, I suppose being around homosexual people has allowed me to be more open minded about things. My mom's twin sister is a lesbian and my wife works in a hair salon where she works with several gay men. No amount of exposure to homosexuality will cause somebody to convert so I wasn't sure what this "agenda" was.
  20. Eric_Boyer

    Eric_Boyer Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid you don't get it. You claim gays are forcing their lifestyle down your throat when all they are doing is living their life and expressing their freedom of expression.

    I feel sorry for people that are threatened by such a simple thing as expressing ones opinion.

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