What Is and What It Takes To Change

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by TwoDeep3, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    How good is this Dallas team?

    They have a shot at going 10-6, or 8-8 or 9-7. Or if the Mayans were really tuned in guys, 8-6 and it doesn't matter.

    10-6 gets them into the play-offs, and then that is a new day. The other two are just more of the same we've seen over the last few years.

    Now some will argue that making the play-offs, anything can happen. And that is true. But then why does Vegas give odds on projected results.

    Obviously to get action. But there is some truth to what they think will happen.

    10-6 may be enough. But probably not heading into a tournament against teams that have played well all season long while Dallas runs out back-ups that weren't on the team when this trek started.

    The odds are so weighted against a miracle ending, Vegas has them at 80-1 to win it all.

    But what truly is enough for you? Do you want to win the Super Bowl?

    Now I have been branded, lectured, and scolded about being negative. People don't understand looking at the team, making a dispassionate assessment and then formulating an opinion.

    I love this team as much as you do.

    Do you want a Super Bowl?

    That is the only question that matters. Because 13-3 and losing at any level of the play-offs is not enough.

    This game is about winning, and winning it all.

    When was the last time you heard anyone bragging about the NFC Championship games their team has played in?

    I can tell you Dallas has lost eight NFC Championship games.
    They have won eight NFC Championship games.
    Lost three Super Bowls.
    Won five Super Bowls.

    So what is the real goal here?

    For me it is to win Championships.

    All the happy horse manure about being satisfied if they won a play-off game, or even lost in an NFC Championship game would go right away after you lost in the play-offs. The only thing you take with a play-off loss is you may be good enough to get back there the next year.

    But Dallas has an aging Super Star and the likelihood of getting back is tough.

    This post isn't some rambling bit of crapola. Think on this.

    What would it take to win it all?

    Forget the Giants and their march to the prize.

    What would it take for Dallas to be in position to win it all next year?

    Right Tackle
    Back-up Running Back
    Wide Receiver
    Nose Tackle
    Defensive End
    Outside Linebacker
    Back-up Corner back


    Would you agree with that assessment?

    If so, what truly would it take to get those pieces? Can the team get them?

    Draft or FA? Both?

    So all the arguing, debating, and seeing who is right and who is wrong is pushing paper around the desk.

    The goal is to win it all. Romo is the center piece for this team to do so. Give him the right pieces and this guy can win. Give him the right pieces and health over two seasons and he can go back to back.

    What will it take to get into position?

    Now some of you have never seen this team truly in the hunt. Most have.

    Telling me just winning a play-off game would be satisfying is baloney.

    For those of you who were around in 1994, how did that losing to the 49ers taste?

    For those of you around in 1981, how did that losing because of The Catch taste?

    It has been argued that just getting into the play-offs would be enough.

    I suggest if you feel that way, you are a sadder sack than me who assesses the team and makes a guess at how they will turn out.

    Because there is no goal of almost.

    So, what will it take to get the right players in position to win it all?

    Because even as skeptical as I sometimes seem, I do think this team is close...

    ...with those right pieces.

    So what is the answer to the $64 dollar question?

    What will it take to hoist the Lombardi in 2013?
  2. Idgit

    Idgit That sounds really boring Staff Member

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    With the caveat that I'd never look past our chances this season, I pretty much agree with your assessment of where we need upgrades:

    Right Tackle: FA or 1st/2nd round draft pick
    Back-up Running Back: mid round draft pick
    Wide Receiver: A capable speed WR in FA someplace.
    Nose Tackle: Brent or Rat are both options here, or a capable FA alternative or top draft pick.
    Defensive End: Here's were I'd spend my top draft pick.
    Outside Linebacker: This is Spencer's job, and he's not walking.
    Safety: Church and, hopefully, Johnson are options here. So's Moore. I'd like to see an alternative to Peprah brought in, too.
    Back-up Corner back: Moore could possibly fill this need, too. But a mid-round pick that can work into dime packages would be a nice addition.
  3. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Caveat noted.

    WR - speedy? Would you write the check for Welker?

    Brent brings up a real problem. I cannot believe the Commish would allow him to play next year, even if Hos is right about his probation only sentence.

    Spencer - Jerry will pay him. I hope he doesn't spend so much time counting his new paycheck he forgets where the QB is.

    So Idgit, you think Church will work? I have no opinion, just curious.

    I agree about the DE. But I sure would like to see one that has the ability to crash the pocket.


    I am not saying blow this season off. Looks like they have a potential to get a lot closer than I suspected.

    But there are far too many holes to believe they can overcome people off the street playing starting position and the offensive line coming together against the top flight defenses.
  4. Idgit

    Idgit That sounds really boring Staff Member

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    I don't have a good sense of who's going to be available, frankly. I think Harvin would be a great fit for us, but way too expensive and MIN isn't going to let him go. If Robinson's cut, he makes a too much sense. But at WR, I wouldn't break the bank. Just get a guy who's fast enough to stretch coverage, play in and out, and be where he's supposed to be more or less.

    On Safety, I thought Church looked early on like he was going to be the guy. Now we'll probably never know. I'd give him a shot to come back from the injury, but you can't count on a recovery from an achilles. Johnson they're clearly high on, but that means nothing until we can see him play. It's important enough that I'd take a S relatively high in the draft if there's a guy there we like. More likely, we'll try to go with the two we've got and find another crossover player like Moore or an upgrade to a journeyman like Peprah who'll be serviceable but not really turn that position into a strength.

    Re: this season, I pretty much agree with you. Each and every playoff game we might win would be an upset. Stranger things have happened, but not many. Still, that's what's cool about the NFL. Once you qualify, you only need to win 3 or 4 in a row, and almost anything can happen. Cardinals, Bears, Seahawks, Giants: all of them have surprised the heck out of me in recent years. If we win out, there aren't too many teams I'd think we wouldn't at least have a chance to beat.
  5. TTexasTT

    TTexasTT Well-Known Member

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    lol holy cow man.

    how about some cliff notes.
  6. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    1st - I think you were right about the Stealers. They didn't ramp it up on defense like Clayton said they would.

    2nd - I just don't see any way this season can end up with the trophy. Anything short is just a disappointment.

    I don't believe in moral victories or loses.
  7. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    For me the best way to go about “winning it all” would be to implement schemes on both sides of the ball that maximise the talent you actually have to play with.

    I would argue that our defense is more effective now that it was when we were completely healthy.


    Well it’s not because we’ve better talent (far from it) but now Roy Ryan is running the defense to maximise the abilities of our best players (Ware, Spencer, Car etc.).

    There’s only so much “talent” you can acquire in any one offseason.
  8. DBOY3141

    DBOY3141 Well-Known Member

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    I've always considered this year 2 of rebuilding. I thought they would go 7-9, so they have exceeded my expectations especially with the injuries. Every teams goal is the Super Bowl but even in today's NFL only a handful of teams have a real chance. I think the Cowboys get their chance in 2013.


    RT - I would like a FA or high draft pick, but I think they go with Parnell

    G/C - I like Cooper in the 1st. I'm biased because I live in NC, but he is a stud.

    DE/NT - 2nd round pick here. I think Ratliff has one more year and I think Brent is gone.

    S - would love Byrd, but will be too expensive they like Church/Johnson - would like a 3rd round pick on this position

    RB - need a 2nd back - Dunbar is nice but can't carry the load when Murray misses time - 4th or 5th round pick

    We shore up the OL/DL/S a little bit and avoid the injury bug and we are real close. The attitude of this team has dramatically changed and that will go a long way.

    2013 will be an exciting year.
  9. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Then you are destined to be miserable.

    The NFL has 32 teams all trying to hoist the same trophy. 31 teams fail every year.

    If the only way you can enjoy the game is to win the Lombardi you really need a new hobby or a new perspective on life.

    There are no moves that guarantee winning Super Bowls. If their were every organization would use them.

    Any fan who can't enjoy a playoff win should seriously reassess their fandom.
  10. Zaxor

    Zaxor Virtus Mille Scuta

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    I agree I like the Cowboys to win every game...but I can enjoy the ride also and if success/happiness is strictly measured by championships than it would make sense to find another hobby

    now as far as improvements

    WR no I would not get Welker football is a young man's game and that should be kept in mind...I do not trade all my tomorrows for a single today.

    draft DE or OLB 1st rnd one that is a pressure player I would spend my 2nd on oline and my 3rd I would look to get the next best player out of this group DB/RB/WR than repeat order
  11. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    He already has.
  12. Canada180

    Canada180 bannedontherun88

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    While I understand the notion of " winning is the only thing" ,It should not diminish the feelings of pride and satisfaction in watching OUR team compete at a high level. We can demand excellence but does that mean excellence is only excellence if the ultimate goal is achieved? I don't believe so.

    I am so very proud of this team right now,proud of the will and spirit in the face of such adversity. They have shown excellence. Excellence of spirit and that " never say die spirit". If that doesnt give one a sense of satisfaction, then I have a misguided definition of being a Cowboy.

    You see, we are all Dallas Cowboys. We are even though we aren't players, we are part of what Dallas Cowboys' should embody. That embodiment includes indomitable spirit and the pride that comes from it.

    No one can win every year, Lord knows we haven't, but I do have a satisfaction in seeing my team play with great courage. This gives me faith that we will inevitably, win that great prize .

    Armed with that inevitability, I can enjoy the journey even with the pitfalls because I know in my Cowboy heart that we WILL win that prize.

    I know for sure, their are a lot of fans of other teams that don't have that luxury
  13. Phoenix

    Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Course it matters. We wouldn't, as Cowboys fans, be able to brag in the next life that our team WOULD have made the playoffs if the season ended today. :D
  14. Dodger12

    Dodger12 Well-Known Member

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    If this team wins the next 2 games, it may not change the fact that we're too flawed to win in the playoffs. But I think it brings a bit of validation to the "direction" this team may be headed.

    I never bought into the theory that we're in some type of mystical rebuilding mode. You have a franchise QB and one of the best pass rushers in the NFL. You have an up and coming LT and two quality CB's. That should be a very solid foundation and you should be competitive.

    I never thought we'd win the SB every year. But in our hey days, we had as good a shot as anyone. Making the playoffs was really not in question. We were in the hunt and there's not a whole lot more you can ask. The game sometimes hangs on luck/great play (the catch, botched Romo hold, etc.), the right call under the right set of circumstances (Troy to Harper, the Hail Mary, etc.). Way too many variables that can affect the outcome of any game, let alone a one and done playoff game. BUT, we always had next year and I was confident we'd be right back in it. I always had faith that the issues would be identified, addressed and fixed. That's the one thing I've lost faith in outside of when Jimmy and BP were here during Jerry's ownership.

    I've seen this same scenario play out under Jerry in recent years. This HC and meddling owner need to show me. They need to show me that they won't fold again under another win and you're in scenario. They need to show me that they can fix the OL and bring in youth and re-stock, via the draft. They need to show me that JG's philosophy works because right now, I'm skeptical. I've been teased before only to be let down in recent years. Show me....talk is cheap.

    I firmly believe that anything can happen in the playoffs, both good and bad (see 13 and 3 season). But we need to get there to have a shot and after starting 3 and 5, that would be a monumental accomplishment, especially if we finish 10 and 6 and especially after all the injuries and OL play. 10 and 6 should also prove to all of us just how valuable Romo is to this franchise.
  15. Phoenix

    Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Sigh. Very well. AGAIN. :)

    Boys – how good? If Mayans, skip to end. 10-6=playoffs, new day, new way, go! But, come on really? VEGAS baby. Yeah 10-6 but hey, street urchins man. Ya’ll call me negative, well I am. ‘Cause of VEGAS baby. <3 team BUT. HEY. Ya’ll? How ‘BOUT a SB? WIN! No almost. What it take for that! (Forget recent Gmen (& Packer - me) history) 90 yr old SUPERstar on team! Who! But rambling? No! Would you agree – health! Various positions! Draft or FA? Give Romo pieces! Playoffs? ’94! ’81! Dude! Win! No almost! So forget THIS year. How can post-Mayan season by Cowboys 6th ring? Gimme $64!
  16. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Goal is to win the SB however you also have to look at where a team has been in recent time. In my view making it to the NFC Championship would be a very good accomplishment for this team. I could not call the season a failure should they advance to that level.

    Of course I want to see them win it all but given how things have gone and where they are headed sometime showing great improvement is an accomplishment of it's own.
  17. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    Tom Landry was head coach of the Dallas Cowboys for 28 years.

    In Twodeeps3's mind he was a loser that had nothing to be proud of for 25 of those years.
  18. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    It would take a couple of significant upgrades along both lines, another pass rusher and, of course, health and playing your best football down the stretch.

    I don't see any way this team can be a favorite next year. Too many holes. But they could do enough to give them a legitimate chance, unlike this year.
  19. RomoIzDaMan

    RomoIzDaMan New Member

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    I know the odds are stacked against the Cowboys to win it all,but some teams defy odds.Like the injury riddled Packers of 2010.There are numerous instances of teams with 10-6 or even 9-7 records going on to win the SB.Its all about which team is playing the hottest going into the post season.Cowboys have defied the odds this season with our best LBs out for the year and a bunch of no names filling in on defense.

    I'm not expecting the Boys to win in February but Anything short of a playoff spot is a failure.

    IN the draft and free agency next year we need safety help and another pashrusher
  20. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    29 years.

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