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Why didn't Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder fight the cap penalty harder?

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Reverend Conehead, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. mmillman

    mmillman Active Member

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    Don't forget the NFL essentially bribed the players union and owners by adding cap money to all the teams that voted for the penalty.
  2. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Cause I'm not so disillusioned to think that a temporary time without "rules" would allow someone to simply disregard them when they have previously operated under those rules and will undoubtedly operate under those same rules again in the near future

    Just as with Casillas and the DMSO thread. Some people were asking why it's bad if it isn't banned and completely missing the real issue at hand was the intent to gain an advantage. If you are willing to make exceptions based on the banned status itself, you've essentially granted amnesty to any PED user who is ahead of the curve and is using substances that have yet to be banned because they were cooked up in someone's lab somewhere and nobody has heard of them yet.

    In this case, the team wrote contracts that they wouldn't have written a year prior or a year after. Contracts they could not have written for that matter because they wouldn't have had the space. And they did it with the full intention of reaping the benefits in years that they absolutely knew the rules would be in place. On top of that, for at least Austin's contract, it raised the Franchise Tag amount for WRs the next year something like 1M, IIRC, and that is a league-wide effect.

    The whole thing is kind of funny in another aspect in that Stephen's response was that it was basically nothing. Wouldn't prevent Dallas from doing anything and the cap space can always be made. Why would they write the contract like that in the first place if the cap is basically a non-issue? Why not just write the contract as they did for nearly all other plays they've signed in the last few years? The answer is because while making cap space is almost never an issue just as Stephen has said, simply having cap space without having to make it is another story.

    It was a slimey deal and if all the other relevant parties involved think it was, you can't blame them for cleaning it up a bit. They knew what they were doing and just didn't care.
  3. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    With all that said, why weren't teams like the Bucs and Jags punished for going well under the imaginary "salary floor" in 2010 and writing contracts they wouldn't have and being able to reap the benefits of extra cap space in out years.

    Why were only the Redskins and Cowboys punished?

    Who sat on the Management Council when these punishments were decided?

    This wasn't a "temporary time without rules" it was a time without rules. That is how labor agreements work and we were in the middle of the 2006 CBA which called for an uncapped season in the final year.
  4. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Why weren't any of the rest of the teams who went above the ceiling punished?

    I mean, if you're reducing the argument to that, you don't have much of a leg to stand on.

    Clearly these two teams went above and beyond.

    Not to mention nobody would ever suggest that being LESS competitive (through spending less money) in one season would actually GIVE a team a competitive advantage for the next 4-5 years down the road.
  5. ajk23az

    ajk23az Through Pain Comes Clarity

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    Above and beyond what? There were no rules in place so how could they go above and beyond a rule that never existed. :cool:
  6. FuzzyLumpkins

    FuzzyLumpkins The Boognish

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    Apparently Hoof does not believe that honoring your contract, acting in good faith, being honest or obeying federal law is important.
  7. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Is that what's apparent here?
  8. Cowboy Junkie

    Cowboy Junkie leonargized

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    I was and am very disappointed in Jerry Jones for not doing all he could to fight this. I was a huge Jerry jones supporter but he lost me a lot with not fighting this one.
    Sometimes you just have to do whats right
  9. FuzzyLumpkins

    FuzzyLumpkins The Boognish

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    mm-hmm . Yup.

    The NFL did not agree to their contract agreement whereby they would have one year of completely unrestricted free agency as a result of opting out of the CBA.

    And heaven forbid that a team try and get an advantage within the rules. Had the NFL not been deceptive and acting in bad faith any team could have been able to seek the same advantage.

    Nevermind a division rival was calling the shots on this one.
  10. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    Adam has already pointed out that Green Bay actually did a contract very similar to the one Jerry did with Miles Austin yet they were not punished for it. There were a couple of teams that did not receive any of the money fined from Dallas and Washington because it was deemed that they also did the same practice but didn't do it as much as Dallas and Washington.

    There were rules for that uncapped year that were bargained with the union. What the nfl did was colluded secretly which is illegal to do behind the union's back as deemed by the US and it's courts.
  11. Proximo

    Proximo Well-Known Member

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    The only thing slimy about the deal was the fact that all of the owners (with the exception of Snyder and Jones) engaged in collusion, and got away with it. Add to that the fact that the only 2 owners that didn't collude were punished. With that being said I don't see how anyone can defend the punishments levied against the 'Skins and Cowboys.

    Do you know what collusion is?
  12. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    I think this is right on th money. Unfortunately, the fans and the players are the ones that suffer.

    Maybe next time the CBA needs to get renewed, we won't be so eager to believe the owners when they are crying financial woe.





    YR
  13. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    Yeah, no kidding.

    Snyder and Jones probably don't care all that much about pursuing it because they made so much from that new CBA. A $5 million cap penalty? Who cares when you consider the likely billions they'll make from the new CBA.

    The whole thing is just arrogant on the NFL's part though. They basically admitted to collusion. The owners were so full of it during that whole process.
  14. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Teams could have but they didn't. Even with contractual and legal rights they chose not to. Is that not indicative that they were operating on something that they believe supersedes both of those? Why would they not? And for that matter, why didn't Dallas just go balls to the wall. Screw it, if you have contractual and legal rights why not just bring everyone in? Too much money for Jerry? Doubtful.

    It will probably make things a lot easier for both of us if I just disclose that I'm not interested in the legal aspect of the situation. In that regard, I would assume that you probably have less interest in discussing the issue with me.

    I'm not interested in this aspect because legality is, and never will be, the end-all to any discussion. Lets not pretend like it is. Some of the most hotly contested topics in our society fall directly on the line of legality and principle. We have decade long fights over some of the issues in spite of the legal aspect.

    And this isn't to say that principle is where my stance solely originates from but I would say that it is a part.

    Secondly, I have no interest in the topic because I don't share the same faith that I assume you have (at the very least not to the same degree) in the infallibility of the legal system. I'm not in any desire to fall into the "it's legal/illegal, so it must be" mindset because there are certainly things for which the legal stance isn't good enough. See hot topic issues again for an example.

    Lastly, I'm not interested because ultimately it was agreed upon by the Players Union. Doesn't this make it no different than any of the other things that are agreed upon between the two groups? Or are we to differentiate based on one being not "legal enough"?

    This really shouldn't be shocking for me to say I don't care to discuss the legal aspect. In between those finely plucked statements you quoted me with was some context that should have given you a big enough hint that I wasn't talking about the legality of the issue.

    That's why I mentioned Casillas and his intent. Sure, it was within the rules but that doesn't change the fact that his intention was to get a benefit out of it that he otherwise wouldn't get. Listen to his comments where he says that deer antler (current drug of PED discussion, although not sure if anyone even knows if it works) is "nothing" and his comments how how he could "feel it".

    Just as with him, Jerry had an intent to gain an advantage that he otherwise couldn't have.

    Having the contractual or legal right to fall back on doesn't clean up a slimy move and I don't think we need to look much further than the 1st Amendment for numerous examples.

    Well, that is his job being the leader of the group who has sole bargaining rights for the NFL. It would only make sense he is involved with working it out with the Players Union.

    Whether or not Mara is a scumbag is one point, to expect a guy elected to a position of authority only to be told that he can't be trusted to act without bias is another. Why not just elect a guy without those concerns?
  15. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member

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    How many Super Bowls would be held at the Death Star if Jerry slapped the NFL with a lawsuit?
  16. Zordon

    Zordon Well-Known Member

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    Jerry wasn't about to go to war with the people who will decide if he gets another super bowl in his palace.
  17. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Tell me all about it. Enlighten me.

    And then when you are done with that, explain to me how Dallas could NOT have signed Austin to the exact same length and dollar amount WITHOUT allocating the salary in such a ridiculous manner.
  18. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    Your argument is absurd

    1) The punishments were arbitrary and based on no rules whatsoever. If you are going to punish Washington and Dallas, you need to punish Tampa and JVille for "violating the spirit of the salary floor" and impacting compettive balance

    2) Yes being LESS competitive was a huge factor in giving Tampa a competitive advantage last offseason. See the Carl Nicks and Vincent Jackson deals. Those don't happen unless Tampa spends as little as did in the year with no rules

    When a division rival owner brags at the owners meetings about how draft picks could have been taken away, you know it was personal. John Mara attempted to knee cap the Redskins and Cowboys. And in poetic justice his team was out of the playoff picture once ours lined up for the division title
  19. NIBGoldenchild

    NIBGoldenchild Active Member

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    Collusion is what is apparent here. The conversation among the owners to attempt this SHOULD'VE NEVER TAKEN PLACE. It was illegal. Which is why the NFL pushed so hard to get a restriction against the NFLPA to be able to sue the league for collusion for anything that happened in 2010. They knew it was going to come out, and they knew Goodell would be making excuses in front of Congress once again if they couldn't get that into the next labor agreement.
  20. 5Stars

    5Stars Here comes the Sun...

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    Three? Wait...four? Fourteen?

    :laugh2:

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