Why not a WR in First Round?

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by dthahn, Apr 25, 2006.

  1. dthahn

    dthahn The Doctor Is IN!

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    There has been a lot of speculation on this board about the Cowboys selecting an OLB in round 1. There are good reasons for this pick, however, I think WR would be a better pick if Holmes or Jackson is available at #18.

    First, this year's draft is loaded at OLB or defensive ends that could play OLB. The 'Boys could easily pick up a good OLB in rounds 2 or 3. The same can't be said of WR of which there are only about 2-3 impact players.

    Second, Singleton, Burnett, Thornton, and Ogbogu will all be competing to start at OLB. We all know that Singleton is solid yet unspectacular. Burnett has been injured and is an unknown quantity with a lot of potential. Thornton has been injured as well but is supposedly a good fit at OLB. Ogbogu appears to be more of a defensive end than a LB. The question I have is: Do the Cowboys really need to invest a first round pick at a position that has some veteran depth and a second round pick (Burnett) ready to go.

    Third, the 'Boys have no depth at WR after Owens, Glenn, and Crayton. And Crayton is a question mark after his severe ankle injury. If either Owens or Glenn go down for any extended period of time, the offense would be in trouble. Glenn does have a long history of injury and rarely plays the entire season. Would anyone feel comfortable with Copper, Crowder, or Rector potentially starting for any period of time?

    If the 'Boys are going to make a serious run at the playoffs, then we need a potential playmaker backing up Owens and company.

    Another option the Cowboys could take but is very unlikely is trading for Javon Walker. He probably won't be 100% until next year but would be a great #3 receiver this year with a move up to #2 next year.

    What do you guys think?
  2. 5 Super Bowls

    5 Super Bowls Member

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    No thanks. I think we are going after the SB now. If we draft a WR he will not get much if any playing time. Not good value either if you ask me. WR's are not slam dunks. Smith and TO went in the 3rd round and are the best in the NFC. (I think that is right)
  3. hmcorp

    hmcorp Member

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    Because in previous years NONE of the (there are only two people) recievers would have been round one worthy.

    And thats a fact. Drafting a WR in the first would be reaching. Wait till next year. We can get one then in the first if we need too. I think a few look pretty good for next years draft.
  4. Deep_Freeze

    Deep_Freeze Well-Known Member

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    Well, this thinking does have merit, cause it usually takes a WR a while to develop, and if we wait too long to get a young prospect, it could hurt us in the long run.

    I wouldn't be against a WR, but I believe this team is in win now mode. Problem with that is if we do have an injury, we are sunk. If healthy, we will be very good, but WR isn't the only position we would be hurt in a major way if the starters went down.

    So pointing out if Glenn or TO go down and such really doesn't hold much water cause the same could be said about alot of positions.

    Now I will admit that they have a higher probability of it happening cause of their history, but a rookie WR will not replace an injuried TO, period. What we need to do is fill as many holes as possible, and worry about injuries and the backups if/when they come.
  5. CrazyCowboy

    CrazyCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Basically, we have much greater needs at this time.
  6. cowboynDC

    cowboynDC New Member

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    Like your thinking, but you call out reasons why the 4 OLBs could be issues for the Boys this season, plus they have a small gap at S (possibly filled). If they can pick up a defensive stud 1st and/or 2nd round (OL maybe) it should benefit them long term (contribute this year, maybe). What I have read about this years WR crop doesn't lead me to believe that the next Irvin or TO is hiding in the group. If they can pick up one of the young WR in a later round it could prove to be a bargain.

    As far as injuries - there is no way to plan for every contingency, so they need to make themselves stronger as a team, fill the gaps with the BPA and all us fans can hope that the injury(ies) aren't to a season breaking position.
  7. 5 Super Bowls

    5 Super Bowls Member

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    Not sure I am following you here. How am I calling out reasons why the 4 OLBs could be issues? Is it lack of experience? If so, I kind of agree with you.

    But. lets say we draft Manny Lawson or Carpenter in the first and Charles Spencer in the second. Get a FS like in the 3rd (Danieal Manning). I think all of these players have a better chance of getting playing time than Santonio Holmes. They may have develop as they go, but they will be the best at their position. Holmes would not be and frankly, I don't see this team doing too many 3 to 4 wide sets with the biggest weakness being the OLine.

    That is where I am coming from. Lets win it now.
  8. Joe a Cowboys fan

    Joe a Cowboys fan New Member

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    A WR at 18 is certainly a possibility. The boys have needed to get some decent talent for years to work up. An OT is also a possibility. This is a deep draft for LBs so that is certainly not a rush. This is not particualry a deep draft for NTs IMO. So they can try that late in the day or the next. There is a slim chance they may get a FS though I think that is chancy.

    They may even do some thing both desparate and silly like trade down. In which case we can start entertaining offers as to who will be the coach after Bill in 2007.
  9. whcarm

    whcarm Member

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    You are saying that we need a WR for depth purposes and because if Owen and/or Glenn went down we would be in trouble.

    Well, the same argument could be made for getting another QB. What if Bledsoe went down? For that matter, what if Ware went down, what if Newman went down, what if Williams went down, what if Adams went down again, what if James went down? We could play this game all day long.

    However, we can't predict the future. But taking our team at its present value, would tell us that the one position where we could draft a guy in the first round who could start ahead of who we have and who might be available at 18 would be an OLB.

    We do need depth at several other positions. But we can't get depth at all of them with our first round picks. So, it is wiser to get a guy who can contribute from the start no matter what happens with the other players.

    The rest of the draft should be used at getting depth and drafting the best player available.
  10. Joe a Cowboys fan

    Joe a Cowboys fan New Member

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    I am saying until TO got here Drew as sad a QB as he is would have had 1 WR and 1 TE to throw to. Now we have 2 WRs and 1 TE to throw to. Given that Drew can stand up and throw the full season. Other than Baltimore I haven't seen a completely D oriented team carry through to the Super bowl since Chicago. Dallas needs to score more than two touch downs and a couple field goals to win many games this season.

    So a WR for the future and the best O Tackle we can get do not sound unreasonable to me. It's still who has the most points on the board at the end of the game that determines the winner. Get some offence.
  11. whcarm

    whcarm Member

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    First of all, with Owens, Glenn, Witten, Jones, Barber, and Crayton, I doubt we are going to have a hard time scoring just two TDs a game. Granted, if one of those guys got hurt, it might make that more difficult. But that is a risk every team in the NFL faces.

    The fact is that there are no clear cut offensive players that will be there at 18 that will make our offense better. They might give us some depth, but that is not what we need.

    The offensive linemen likely to be available at 18 will not be worthy of that spot and will not be worthy of being taken until the late part of the first round or the early part of the second round.

    The receivers that may be available all have huge question marks. This is not a good year for first round receivers. It would be a reach to take one at 18 and it would be a reach at a position that is not a need.

    We should take the best player available at 18. However, we should also keep in mind which player would be able to have an immediate impact. In this draft, it is very likely that the best player available will also happen to help us at one of our weaknesses, which is OLB opposite Ware.

    It would be stupid to reach for a player that will be a backup when we can select a player that could start and have an immediate impact and who would not be a reach.
  12. dthahn

    dthahn The Doctor Is IN!

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    I agree with you regarding injuries to other key positions but there is an important difference with WR in that the drop off in talent to the second string player would be huge.

    If you recall, Henry went down for several games last season and Glenn and Reeves stepped up and played well. So, if Newman went down, they would be able to step up. Again, if Ware went down, we would still have Singleton, Burnett, Thornton, and Ogbogu. They certainly wouldn't be the same as Ware but would be able to do an adequate job. If R. Williams went down, we would have Berriault and Pile with the possibility of sliding Davis over to SS where he is more of a natural fit. If Adams went down, they would simply slide Fabini over to LT and have Pettiti or Columbo at RT. Pettiti should be much improved after a full year and an offseason of experience.

    Clearly, Jones and Parcells have done a good job of acquiring veteran depth at key positions. The only large drop off in talent would be at WR and possibly QB.

    Therefore, the question remains: Do the Cowboys need to invest a First round draft pick in an OLB when they could take a good one in round 2 or 3 and have that player compete with Burnett for the starting postion.
  13. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    Two words.

    No value.
  14. whcarm

    whcarm Member

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    OK, what do you think would be a bigger drop off... a OLB available in the first round like Carpenter, Lawson or Greenway and a guy available late in the second round or a WR available in the first round like Jackson or Holmes (and I would assume one of those guys will probably be gone by our pick) and a WR in the second round?

    I think the talent at OLB in the first round is much better than the talent at WR. When you take that into account along with the fact that it is much more likely that a rookie LB will have a positive impact on your team than will a rookie WR then I think it is a no brainer.

    Additionally, the linebacker position is the key to our defense. Right now we have Ware, James, and Ayodele as really good starting linebackers. Singleton, Shanle, and Fowler have proven themselves as alright players that could get us by. But if they had to start it would mean our defense would go from one of the best to mediocre. Burnett and Thornton are still huge question marks that I would not be comfortable relying on. I doubt Obgobu even makes the team.

    However, if we drafted a guy like Carpenter then if one of our top linebackers went down it would not be such a huge loss.

    It would obviously be a big loss if Owens or Glenn went down. But we have Crayton and Witten to pick up the slack. And we would just rely more on our running game.

    We need a younger WR. I am not saying we don't. But I think it would be much smarter to go with Crayton and pick a WR in the third round or below. Because if all things go as planned then a rookie WR is not going to help us get better this year.

    But a OLB in the first round will help us get better this year.
  15. Bizwah

    Bizwah Well-Known Member

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    Name one WR that's worthy of a first round pick.

    There are none.


    I don't think so....

    Any other year, and they're being drafted in rounds two and three. Any team that takes either of them in round one would be reaching.

    Not only that, a first round pick should be a starter....they should contribute immediately (unless they're a QB). There are no Roy Williams or Randy Mosses in this draft. Heck, there isn't even any Braylon Edwardses....
  16. dthahn

    dthahn The Doctor Is IN!

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    I couldn't disagree with you more. A large number of mock drafts have Holmes and Jackson both picked between #15 and #28. They have both been rated as middle to late first round picks. The problem is after these two then the rest of the WR pool is mediocre.

    Therefore the draft information clearly reveals that picking either Holmes or Jackson at #18 would be a GOOD value pick and NOT a reach.

    There is also a consensus on Holmes that he is a true playmaker who averaged about 20 YPC last season with Ohio State and has been compared with Terry Glenn. If you remember, Glenn had a pretty good season as a rookie and made a large impact under the coaching of Parcells. Holmes could possibly compete and win the #3 WR position over Crayton depending on Crayton's recovery from his severe ankle injury.
  17. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    The talent at LB (including tweeners) is MUCH better then the talent at WR in this draft. It's not even close.
  18. whcarm

    whcarm Member

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    Ask yourself this... in pretty much any other draft would Holmes or Jackson be rated as mid first round talents?

    The rankings have a lot to do with the position these players play. Have you ever seen a draft without any receivers ranked in the first round? Like last year with the QBs. They were not good QBs, but they were still ranked near the top of the draft simply because they were the best QBs available and teams always are looking for QBs.

    On the other hand, in any other draft I think a guy like Carpenter, Lawson or Greenway would all be ranked around the mid part of the first round.
  19. Pabst

    Pabst Well-Known Member

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    Oooh boy. I agree with Rack. I think I see some sky falling.

    Let's face it; if Holmes or Jackson had been in last years draft, or next years, they wouldn't be first round picks. There's simply a lack of talent at the position this year, and they were wise in coming out early to take advantage of it.
  20. dthahn

    dthahn The Doctor Is IN!

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    I would like to take you back to last season when Singleton was starting at OLB. Our defense was kicking some serious butt until he got injured so I would strongly disagree that Singleton being in the line-up would bring our defense down to mediocre. Even Parcells lamented about the loss of Singleton and how you didn't miss him until he was gone from the line-up.

    I do hear what you're saying though. Getting a stud OLB in the first round would certainly help the pass rush and could very well improve the number of big plays by the defense. I still think it's a really good pick and would feel great about it but I would prefer Holmes, Jackson, or a trade for Javon Walker.

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