1. Welcome to CowboysZone!  Join us!  Come on!  You know you want to!

"Win-or-go-home" from a team point of view

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by percyhoward, Jul 14, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. percyhoward

    percyhoward Research Tool

    8,004 Messages
    1,580 Likes Received
    I read the whole thing.

    Now, name one of those offensive plays that you mentioned that was NOT a defensive play for the other team. Or if you prefer, name one of those plays that was more important for the offense than it was for the defense.

    The plays in a game can't possibly be more important for one team than they are for the other. The plays made by the QB (pass offense) can't possibly be any more or less important than the ones made by the pass defense. They're the same plays.

    In 2012, teams whose QB had at least a 100 rating went 135-33-1. Guess the record of teams whose pass defense allowed at least a 100 rating.

    Teams with our rank in offensive passer rating the last two seasons finish 11-5 on average. Want to know why we're 8-8 the last two seasons?

    Because teams with our rank in defensive passer rating and rushing TD finish 4-12 on average. We're a 4-12 team with an 11-5 passing offense.
    Dodger and dstovall5 like this.
  2. DanteEXT

    DanteEXT Well-Known Member

    1,723 Messages
    133 Likes Received
    Actually, the defense COULD/SHOULD have forced a FG and given the offense one more chance. Hatcher blew that chance with a roughing the passer penalty on the 3rd down incompletion.
  3. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Staff Member

    14,563 Messages
    1,652 Likes Received
    The fact that you've watched something your entire life doesn't preclude you from being clueless about it. The world is full of people who think they know something but are too pigheaded to change their mind even when a better explanation comes along.
  4. ufcrules1

    ufcrules1 Well-Known Member

    6,715 Messages
    1,056 Likes Received
    I couldn't possibly disagree with you more. A QB can pretty much make or break you by himself. He is quite simply the most important player on your team.
  5. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

    26,328 Messages
    73 Likes Received
    Well that couldn't have gone better if you had planned it.
  6. ufcrules1

    ufcrules1 Well-Known Member

    6,715 Messages
    1,056 Likes Received
    I absolutely agree with this. At the end of the day though, one person has to be right and the other has to be wrong.
  7. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,367 Messages
    697 Likes Received
    How about answering my questions instead of avoiding them. I'll try it again if you had the #1 overall pick and had the choice between the highest rated QB in the last decade and the highest rated defensive player in the last decade which player would you pick and why?
  8. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member

    5,516 Messages
    1,149 Likes Received
    The basis of football message boards.
  9. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,367 Messages
    697 Likes Received
    Rodgers didn't play great in the Packers only regular season loss in 2011 and he didn't play great in their loss in the playoffs. In both GB's losses Rodgers got outplayed by the opposing QB. No one is saying it's "all" about the QB that's just a spin by those who have an agenda but the fact is QB's influence the outcome of games more than other player on the field care to deny it? In 2011 the Colts went from a 10-6 team in 2010 with an injured Peyton Manning to a 2-14 team without Manning because they got poor QB play. After drafting the best QB in college football they went from a 2-14 team to an 11-5 playoff team what was the reason for that big turn around?

    You don't think the play of their rookie QB played a huge role in their 11-5 season? Do you honesty believe they would have gone 11-5 with the same QB situation they had in 2011? Seattle went 7-9 in 2011. They went 11-5 and made the playoffs in 2012 you don't think the play of Russell Wilson played a big part in that turn around? Washington went 5-11 in 2011 with Rex Grossman and John Beck. They went 10-6 and made the playoffs with RG3 last season you don't think his addition was the main reason for their turn around in 2012? A QB can make or break a team it's a fact! Denver never goes to 3 SB's in the 80's if they don't have John Elway as their QB. His teams got pasted in those SB's because he didn't have a solid team around him but a QB can carry a team a long way if they're special.

    No single player can impact a team like a QB that's my point regardless of how some try and spin it. No one is saying that's all it takes to win but you have no chance in todays NFL of winning a championship with an average QB regardless of how great a roster you have. The QB will eventually get you beat just like Flacco got some very good Baltimore teams beat in the AFC title games in 08 and 09. He had 5 turnovers in those 2 games with passer ratings of 18.2 and 48.4.
  10. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

    74,979 Messages
    1,556 Likes Received
    No agenda just sick and tired of people claiming it is all the QB get a clue it if football QB does not play one single down on defense he has a lot of responsiblity in terms of offense but he still only controls so much, he can't block for himself, he does not run the routs or make the tough catch in traffic. Yes we get it QB is important but to win it takes a team not one person and when I see people making these claims of Troy has 3 SB as if he won them by himself, he didn't he had a great team offense, defense and special team that is what won for us. Yes he was a big part of it but he nor any QB is going to win without a lot of help from the team. If you can't get that then no need to continue because it does show a total lack of knowledge. QB clearly is a important position while they can't win a game by themselfs they can do a lot to lose a game by being careless with the ball. You talk Seattle they had an outstanding defense, a running game that did not force them into passing situations. Wilson was not out there throwing it 50 times a game he had many other parts all working with him, Lynch was big part.

    This is not about protecting Romo, Romo has made mistakes but this team has not played well enough to win period and that is not on Romo it is on the Dallas Cowboys. I don't see the big plays coming from defense, I see a defense who fails to get turnover. To act as if well it is the QB that is total BS
  11. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,367 Messages
    697 Likes Received
    Show me a post where I said it's all the QB? I've repeatedly said it's not "all" the QB try following my point instead of putting your own spin on everything I say.

    If Romo had 3 SB wins on his resume no one here would be complaining if they said he had 3 SB's would they? Cowboy FANS are upset when everyone talks about Romo's 1-6 elimination game record but they wouldn't be saying a damn thing if he had a 6-1 elimination game record would they? One FAN said the Cowboys 1-6 elimination game record isn't Romo's record it's the teams record but credited Romo with a 5-1 stretch. :cool: That says it all about the mindset of Cowboy FANS.

    What shows a total lack of knowledge is when someone puts their own spin on everything someone posts just to fit an agenda they have. The NFL was a different game back when Troy won his championships I've already pointed that out try reading what I'VE said instead of putting your own take on everything.. You can't win championships today by running the ball for 4 quarters behind a big OL and playing great defense because it's a passing league. You can't just build a lead by pounding the ball all day and sitting on it while your defense is making stops not with the playmaking/duel threat QB's we see today. We saw a 17 point lead evaporate in the SB last Feb. Every SB has gone down to the wire the past 6 years because of the evolution of the passing game. It's a different game today dominated by 4000/5000 yard passers and even a team with a 2100 yard rusher isn't going to go far if they don't get solid play from their QB in win or go home games.
  12. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

    74,979 Messages
    1,556 Likes Received
    No spinning anything QB is important and no the game has not changed that much. Hell most of the rules in place are pretty much the same when Aikman played it was not that long ago. Dallas was a complete team granted not many complete teams now but it still takes offense and defense it takes a lot to win it all and it is not just the QB doing it. Yes it is important because he handles the ball every offensive snap and that has never changed in the game of football. As for winning it all there are many different ways to win it all. 9ers and Balt ran quite a bit hell 9ers had the 7th most rushing attempts on the season and the Ravens 12th and defensively 9ers gave up 2nd fewest points while Ravens 12th fewest. So don't spin that non sense. Maybe in your view teams can't run consistently and win but that is your spin not reality. QB's have always been important no matter what decade you played in but it still took offense, defense and special teams to win and it still does.
  13. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,367 Messages
    697 Likes Received
    They can do as much to win a game as they can to lose a game anyone who follows the game knows that. They handle the ball more than any player on the field. Most do or die games come down to QB's having to make a play they can either end up the hero or the goat.
  14. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

    74,979 Messages
    1,556 Likes Received
    They can't make the tough catch, hell Flacco got some big bail outs by his WR he did not make the catch someone else did or in your eyes he is credited for throwing a poor ball and getting bailed out? Yes they handle the ball but they don't block, they don't run the routs and they don't catch it others do and when they fail he failes it goes hand in hand. I follow the game at every level understand it very well. Staubach threw a hail mary it was not a great pass it took Pearson going after the ball taking the ball and then making the play. If he fails to do that Rogers pass mean nothing.
  15. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,367 Messages
    697 Likes Received
  16. dstovall5

    dstovall5 Well-Known Member

    2,037 Messages
    1,157 Likes Received
    You just claimed that I said the "Cowboys 1-6 elimination game record isn't Romo's record it's the teams record", which that's not even true, don't put a spin on stuff I've previously said because I'vet yet to put a spin on your words.
    Here's what I previously stated about the 5-1 stretch ...

    Very funny, you just told the above poster to stop putting a "spin" on stuff then you turn around and put a spin on something I said, way to be a hypocritical. Also telling others they have an agenda when you're the one who has an agenda, oh the irony.
  17. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

    74,979 Messages
    1,556 Likes Received
    That is just stupid, players were once 250 and guess what they faced guys who were 250. Now lets put it in today perspective the 300 pounder is facing the 300 pounder it still equals out. Sure teams throw more but 7 of the top 11 teams in the NFL in rushing all made the playoffs so the run game still factors in as it always has. If top defense knows you can't run a lick they can sit in dime coverage or put a ton of pressure on the QB and even the Great Peyton Manning will make critical mistakes if there is enough pressure and consistent pressure being applied. The basic principals of the game have not changed that much even with the rule changes.
  18. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,367 Messages
    697 Likes Received
    None of the player safety rules that keep being added were around when Aikman played. You don't think some of those rules have benefitted offenses? You have defenders having to think rather than react or they could be subjected to a fine or suspension. There were only 4 QB's during Aikman's entire 13 year career that passed for over 4000 yards. There were 11 QB's last season pass for over 4000 yards including a rookie and one QB passed for over 5000 yards. It's a different game today.

    It's hard to put together a real complete team today because of the salary cap and free agency that's another thing that's helped change the game. Again no one is saying it's just the QB get off that spin.
  19. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    10,367 Messages
    697 Likes Received
    I never claimed you said anything I said a FAN you're just assuming things. No one put a spin on anything you said.
  20. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

    74,979 Messages
    1,556 Likes Received
    Some of the safety rules were in the grasp and the interference rules really have not changed you still can't bump beyond 5yards. Passing still means a lot and passing effectively is critical yet a team like the Saints will spend a 1st rd pick on a RB I wounder why I guess their HC is just stupid. It is funny you say I'm spinning about the QB yet all I see from you is it is the QB and it is more than that 1 position if you want to win.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page