What does success look like in the NFL?

[Scottishcowboy]

I thought I'd post this given we are about to play Tampa tonight and use Dallas and Tampa as my "what does success look like".

We've done nothing since the 90s yet Tampa have won the Superbowl twice this century (2002 last time)- the question then is are they more successful than we are in the time period for their 2 wins?

Before you shout "of course"!, let me explain why I pose the question.........

In the 19 seasons since their 1st Superbowl to last year, they have won 130 regular season games. In that same timeframe, Dallas has won 164.
They had 5 seasons in a row <8 wins (2011-2015)
Dallas in the 19 years - never had 2 years <8 wins in a row!
Tampa actually had a run of 7 losing season in a 9 year period (2011-2019) - that is awful!

It's not even close who has been the better team here during what's meant to be "bad" Dallas and "good" Tampa, not even close.

So what's my point? It's the boom and bust nature by and large of NFL roster building that we just don't ever do whereas other teams are either forced to do or "get lucky" with continual super-high draft picks that allow them to gather blue chip players. Tampa have been terrible but being terrible allows the occasional high and the occasional high hits the Superbowl jackpot now and then too.

Before you ask, am I saying tear it down now? No I'm not, but there has to be a point we do rather than finish 8-8 at times. Other teams seems willing to acknowledge they aren't in a great place so release vets / collect draft picks through trades building with a 2-3 picture in mind - we don't and that's why we aren't successful. Last time we did see the big picture a certain RB was traded to Minnesota.....can't quite remember the outcome of that....wait, hang on.

 

[Jake]

I thought I'd post this given we are about to play Tampa tonight and use Dallas and Tampa as my "what does success look like".

We've done nothing since the 90s yet Tampa have won the Superbowl twice this century (2002 last time)- the question then is are they more successful than we are in the time period for their 2 wins?

Before you shout "of course"!, let me explain why I pose the question.........

In the 19 seasons since their 1st Superbowl to last year, they have won 130 regular season games. In that same timeframe, Dallas has won 164.
They had 5 seasons in a row <8 wins (2011-2015)
Dallas in the 19 years - never had 2 years <8 wins in a row!
Tampa actually had a run of 7 losing season in a 9 year period (2011-2019) - that is awful!

It's not even close who has been the better team here during what's meant to be "bad" Dallas and "good" Tampa, not even close.

So what's my point? It's the boom and bust nature by and large of NFL roster building that we just don't ever do whereas other teams are either forced to do or "get lucky" with continual super-high draft picks that allow them to gather blue chip players. Tampa have been terrible but being terrible allows the occasional high and the occasional high hits the Superbowl jackpot now and then too.

Before you ask, am I saying tear it down now? No I'm not, but there has to be a point we do rather than finish 8-8 at times. Other teams seems willing to acknowledge they aren't in a great place so release vets / collect draft picks through trades building with a 2-3 picture in mind - we don't and that's why we aren't successful. Last time we did see the big picture a certain RB was traded to Minnesota.....can't quite remember the outcome of that....wait, hang on.

Tampa didn't have the same GM and Director of Player Personnel the entire time. They kept making changes until they found "success". Dallas, of course, does no such thing. Captain Jerry and First Mate Stephen rearrange the deck chairs yet the navigation stays the same, along with the course of the franchise.

Winning 30 more games than Tampa over a 19 year span is good for a yawn - I'll take a few more bad years in exchange for those two trophies. The days of the Herschel Walker trade are ancient history. The salary cap didn't even exist then, and a certain former coach played a big hand in it.

 

[Aviano90]

The Cowboys are probably the best team in the league at salvaging mediocrity.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Winning 30 more games than Tampa over a 19 year span is good for a yawn - I'll take a few more bad years in exchange for those two trophies.

Heck I’d take 10! A Super Bowl a decade sounds pretty good to me

 

[Scottishcowboy]

Tampa didn't have the same GM and Director of Player Personnel the entire time. They kept making changes until they found "success". Dallas, of course, does no such thing. Captain Jerry and First Mate Stephen rearrange the deck chairs yet the navigation stays the same, along with the course of the franchise.

Winning 30 more games than Tampa over a 19 year span is good for a yawn - I'll take a few more bad years in exchange for those two trophies. The days of the Herschel Walker trade are ancient history. The salary cap didn't even exist then, and a certain former coach played a big hand in it.

I'm with you Jake, it realising a formula doesn't work, not being afraid to fail at times but changing it when success doesn't come - we cannot do that.

Now when changing it requires you to look in the mirror and think hang on a minute, it's me that's needing to change (or go) who does that?

 

[Scottishcowboy]

The Cowboys are probably the best team in the league at salvaging mediocrity.

.....and that's my point. I don't want 8-8, tear it down and have a couple of 2-14 years to then have a shot at the highs. I used Tampa as my comparison but could have named many others. San Fran spring to mind, been terrible at times but ben to the Superbowl twice in 10 years as they accepted they were poor so rebuilt. As you say we don't and aim for mediocrity.

 

[Risen Star]

Heck I’d take 10! A Super Bowl a decade sounds pretty good to me

You're an Eagles puke. Be happy with your Super Bowl every 60 years.

 

[CowboysRule]

How'd they do the season before signing Brady? Brady is an anamoly. A great QB who doesn't demand megabucks. He signs a contract that allows you to put (and keep) pieces around him. That's why they won. Their high draft pick is now a back up for the Saints.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

.....and that's my point. I don't want 8-8, tear it down and have a couple of 2-14 years to then have a shot at the highs. I used Tampa as my comparison but could have named many others. San Fran spring to mind, been terrible at times but ben to the Superbowl twice in 10 years as they accepted they were poor so rebuilt. As you say we don't and aim for mediocrity.

People like to call you a bad fan if you'd rather have 2-14 over 8-8. I mean, you're not making the playoffs in either case, so if the playoffs are out of the equation why would you not want to have the best possible draft position?

That's not a bad fan. That's a fan that understand that 2-14 can give us a franchise changing player while 8-8 we're just hoping to draft a guy that can maybe be a solid starter.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

How'd they do the season before signing Brady? Brady is an anamoly. A great QB who doesn't demand megabucks. He signs a contract that allows you to put (and keep) pieces around him. That's why they won. Their high draft pick is now a back up for the Saints.

They did pretty surprisingly good for a team with a QB that threw 30 INTS.

That's why Brady went there. They had the pieces. They just needed the QB.

 

[jazzcat22]

How'd they do the season before signing Brady? Brady is an anamoly. A great QB who doesn't demand megabucks. He signs a contract that allows you to put (and keep) pieces around him. That's why they won. Their high draft pick is now a back up for the Saints.

Maybe Brady signed that deal with TB because no one offered him a better contract.

 

[CowboysRule]

They did pretty surprisingly good for a team with a QB that threw 30 INTS.

That's why Brady went there. They had the pieces. They just needed the QB.

I mean, the finished 3rd in their division with a losing record. I don't think that's surprisingly good. They won one more game than we did last year.

 

[Scottishcowboy]

People like to call you a bad fan if you'd rather have 2-14 over 8-8. I mean, you're not making the playoffs in either case, so if the playoffs are out of the equation why would you not want to have the best possible draft position?

That's not a bad fan. That's a fan that understand that 2-14 can give us a franchise changing player while 8-8 we're just hoping to draft a guy that can maybe be a solid starter.

And there's the draft pick position...........we don't get the chance to draft franchise altering players whereas other team do. Chase Young / Myles Garrett / Nick Bosa are all on their teams because they were awful the season before. 2 of those 3 teams possibly have a shot at the Superbowl this year!

I also think we falsely believe we do have franchise altering players and pay them as such trapping us with a top heavy roster and next to no depth but maybe that's for a different thread.............it does all circle back to what makes a successful roster though.

 

[big dog cowboy]

What does success look like in the NFL?

 

[RS12]

Success in the NFL looks like people whose jobs are on the line if they DON'T have success.

 

[Whyjerry]

Success is consistent playoff runs with the occasional 2-3 year rebuild. During those playoff runs you have a few chances to win it all. Baltimore, NE, Seattle, GB, Steelers and Saints would meet that definition over the last 10-20 years.

Dallas is an inconsistent organization with bottom feeder playoff success over the last couple decades. That is the reality.

 

[jazzcat22]

They did pretty surprisingly good for a team with a QB that threw 30 INTS.

That's why Brady went there. They had the pieces. They just needed the QB.

I may have the years a little off, but.
2019 TB seemed to have a lot of injuries. As 2018 they did not look all that bad. Lost a lot of close games for stupid reasons (sound familiar) That is if I remember correctly. but you could tell they were not a horrible team overall. They were improving. As I said 2019, injuries hit. You could see them getting better as the year went along the last month or so.
Could have been 2107, then injuries hit in 2018, then showed improvement on 2019. Anyway it doesn't matter. you could see improvement on the field even though losses. So QB play had a lot to do with that.

2020. Agree, QB play for them had been poor.
Enter Brady and some good draft picks, coaching improved as well. They seemed to start off slow, but improved each week.

This is what I am looking for with Dallas this season. I think as usual they may start off slow, but then improve each week. SB contenders, no, will not go there, but compete for division title, yes.
As you say, show me on the field. I think they can, but how soon.

 

[John813]

IMO success is making the playoffs 2 out of 3 years at least and when the team does make the playoffs they can at least advance one or two(or three) rounds times than not. So, not just a wildcard and out non stop.
Cause in my opinion some teams can get hot at the right time, and we've seen teams like the Colts(with Manning or Philly with Foles) hit at all cylinders for a small stretch in the playoffs to win the SB.

Saying SB or bust is unrealistic and really has only happened with Dallas in early 90's and then the Pats with Brady.

And mini rebuilds occur all the time. Some teams like Pitt, GB, Seattle, Balt,Saints NE are/were able to retool on the fly and either make the playoffs or barely miss it but then they are back the next few years with chances to contend.

 

[Swanny]

The only thing that matters is $$$. The more money the NFL makes the more successful it is. The NFL is a business. Sucks for fans but in reality all that matters is $$$$$

SO what does success look like in the NFL? $$$$$$ is the correct answer

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

I mean, the finished 3rd in their division with a losing record. I don't think that's surprisingly good. They won one more game than we did last year.

If your QB throws 30 INTS would you expect to win 7 games?

I wouldn't lol