Is Dak worth his contract?

[mardwin]

Jerry gave into a “no trade” clause for Dak. I mean how dumb do you have to be.

Even without a no trade clause nobody in their right mind is going to trade for him to pay $40M. It was a bad contract for Dallas and great for Dak.

 

[NumOneQB]

Yes, absolutely.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Nearly everything about your post is wrong. Here are the facts.
1. Going back to 2000, 12 quarterbacks have won SB's. MOST of them (7) were drafted in the first round, and you could argue it as more like 8 as the eagles probably wouldn't have made it to the SB without Wentz. This is reason #1 to draft a QB in the first round.
2. Of the 7 first rounders who won SB's, 4 of them (the majority) were taken 10th or later. This is the second reason - you don't necessarily have to tank.
3. Of the 12 QB's who won SB's, only TWO (Brad Johnson and TB) was drafted outside of the 3rd round. Not great odds for a 4th round QB.

It doesn't matter if most QB's wash out. It's a risk no matter what you decide. You can be smart and choose the option that gives you the best chance for success, or you can do what the Cowboys have done, which gives you 25 years and counting of mediocrity and watching other teams clown us.

I think you are arguing a point with yourself as what I said was completely either misunderstood or went over your head.

I am not opposed to drafting a QB, but there are risks...as you said, going back to 2000 12 QBs have won superbowl...in 20 years, only 12 different ones and 7 were first rounders. great. in that same period 63 QBs were drafted in the first round. everyone drafts QBs in the first round, reaches for them, thinks them to be what they may not be. of course!!! why? because having a QB is the easiest way to make it to the superbowl....it actually is the cheapest way despite the contract numbers that we see lately.

and QBs come in all rounds....all kinds of players come in all rounds....chances of 1st rounders succeeding is higher....probabilities are higher and over the years, you look at first rounders, vs. other rounds and more first rounders succeed. in all positions. they are usually more talented physically, come from bigger programs, smarter, and have had great college performances, etc....that's stating the obvious not discovering a hidden fact. but the lower in the round, the less the probability....do you find good ones in lower part of draft? yes, Brady was 6th...who is an exception rather than the rule.

my point, rookie QBs take time to develop (I am sure you are going to point to Mac Jones the exception working with Bilicheck rather than the rule ala Wilson, Lawrence, Fields). rarely a team as talented as NE, with the GOAT as headcoach, has his players take a year off, so they end up with a top 15 pick to choose a QB at the right time when GOAT QB leaves for another team....

so again, not opposed to go draft route, but to have a better chance of finding the right QB, then you have to draft higher in the round usually top 10, for that you have to stink it up or get unlucky like cowboys and deal with ton of injuries, etc. to end up in the top 10-15 range.....plus a rookie QB will take time develop (despite Mac Jones' record or what Marino did). then we are wasting our money paying collins, smith, zeke, cooper, martin...we should just trade/cut and tank and go for it and rebuild.....

and given you seem to understand odds, since you said QBs in rounds 3rd and lower don't have much chance of succes, then odds are 7/63 that we may find a QB that can take us competitive.....or 56/63 that we won't.

 

[Vtwin]

Tannenhill could be considered a good leader. Wentz? Not at all….the complete opposite of leader.

So Dak and Tannehill are good leaders because their teams are winning but Wentz is not a good leader even though his team is winning?

This brings us right back to the original question.
How does the leadership show up? You said team record was evidence of good leadership, but Wentz has a very good record, while playing through an injury and you give him no credit.

So which is it?

 

[Bob-Lillys-War]

Nobody is worth a 100 million contract . Not brady , not anybody .

 

[CATCH17]

I think you are arguing a point with yourself as what I said was completely either misunderstood or went over your head.

I am not opposed to drafting a QB, but there are risks...as you said, going back to 2000 12 QBs have won superbowl...in 20 years, only 12 different ones and 7 were first rounders. great. in that same period 63 QBs were drafted in the first round. everyone drafts QBs in the first round, reaches for them, thinks them to be what they may not be. of course!!! why? because having a QB is the easiest way to make it to the superbowl....it actually is the cheapest way despite the contract numbers that we see lately.

and QBs come in all rounds....all kinds of players come in all rounds....chances of 1st rounders succeeding is higher....probabilities are higher and over the years, you look at first rounders, vs. other rounds and more first rounders succeed. in all positions. they are usually more talented physically, come from bigger programs, smarter, and have had great college performances, etc....that's stating the obvious not discovering a hidden fact. but the lower in the round, the less the probability....do you find good ones in lower part of draft? yes, Brady was 6th...who is an exception rather than the rule.

my point, rookie QBs take time to develop (I am sure you are going to point to Mac Jones the exception working with Bilicheck rather than the rule ala Wilson, Lawrence, Fields). rarely a team as talented as NE, with the GOAT as headcoach, has his players take a year off, so they end up with a top 15 pick to choose a QB at the right time when GOAT QB leaves for another team....

so again, not opposed to go draft route, but to have a better chance of finding the right QB, then you have to draft higher in the round usually top 10, for that you have to stink it up or get unlucky like cowboys and deal with ton of injuries, etc. to end up in the top 10-15 range.....plus a rookie QB will take time develop (despite Mac Jones' record or what Marino did). then we are wasting our money paying collins, smith, zeke, cooper, martin...we should just trade/cut and tank and go for it and rebuild.....

and given you seem to understand odds, since you said QBs in rounds 3rd and lower don't have much chance of succes, then odds are 7/63 that we may find a QB that can take us competitive.....or 56/63 that we won't.

Forget about drafting a QB. That ship has sailed.

What we have to do now is somehow build around a player that needs everything optimal to perform.

We’re giving a system Quarterback 40 million a year. Lol.. Only the Cowboys.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Forget about drafting a QB. That ship has sailed.

What we have to do now is somehow build around a player that needs everything optimal to perform.

We’re giving a system Quarterback 40 million a year. Lol.. Only the Cowboys.

what does 40M have to do with anything? people keep saying that as if they are resentful he is making that money, given none have offered any other better solution they can stand behind.

if you don't have a better option to offer, what we have is the best possible solution....

 

[CATCH17]

what does 40M have to do with anything? people keep saying that as if they are resentful he is making that money, given none have offered any other better solution they can stand behind.

if you don't have a better option to offer, what we have is the best possible solution....

Salary cap and its impact on winning a Super Bowl.

It’s hard to win a Super Bowl while paying elite QB’s much less system QB’s like Dak.

This year we had a good chance but the system broke down a little and you have seen what has happened. 3 out of 4 games ending in an L.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Salary cap and its impact on winning a Super Bowl.

It’s hard to win a Super Bowl while paying elite QB’s much less system QB’s like Dak.

This year we had a good chance but the system broke down a little and you have seen what has happened. 3 out of 4 games ending in an L.

ok, what about salary cap? did we want anyone and couldn't resign them? did we want any one to sign and couldn't? people just throw these things around because they heard someone say soemthing and they use it as an argument, yet they can't provide any specifics or details...

this year, prior to the season nobody predicted this team to be 7-4, including yourself....probably three or 4 overly optimistic fans predicted this record at this point of the season....now all of a sudden, this year was our chance and blah blah blah...

and what system QB, can you tell me what system we are running? so that Dak is a system QB...again conjecture talking points with no specifics

if you have no specifics to discuss, then you have nothing but conjecture and some high level talking points you heard on the radio

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Mark Andrews is a very good tight end, but brown is nothing than a 3rd receiver that drops more balls than Noah Brown. You obviously don't watch the Ravens play. Lamar is a legitimate MVP with a lesser supporting cast.

You obviously don't watch them play if you think Hollywood Brown is a 3rd option you must be confusing him with Sammy Watkins lol. And Lamar is legit with less touchdowns, passing yards, lesser completion rate than Dak? Interesting. Y'all boost up anyone else but your own QB....amazing lol.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

So Dak and Tannehill are good leaders because their teams are winning but Wentz is not a good leader even though his team is winning?

This brings us right back to the original question.
How does the leadership show up? You said team record was evidence of good leadership, but Wentz has a very good record, while playing through an injury and you give him no credit.

So which is it?

Because I saw Wentz last year and his team STUNK...his team this year wins in spite of him throwing some of the dumbest passes you'll ever see a QB throw. Colts record would be better if it had a legit QB. Jonathan Taylor is the real leader of that team but of course give his credit to Wentz. Y'all love that dude and I have no idea why. All because he had his best season in 2017 in which he got hurt in. Just amazing.....

 

[Vtwin]

Because I saw Wentz last year and his team STUNK...his team this year wins in spite of him throwing some of the dumbest passes you'll ever see a QB throw. Colts record would be better if it had a legit QB. Jonathan Taylor is the real leader of that team but of course give his credit to Wentz. Y'all love that dude and I have no idea why. All because he had his best season in 2017 in which he got hurt in. Just amazing.....

There you go again. I did not say one single thing about the quality of Wentz's play. You should stop doing that. Makes you look foolish. It's also classic goal post moving. Any port in a storm, eh? lol

The comment about Taylor "giving his credit to Wentz" is GOLD. I do actually agree that you have to take the glowing praise said into a microphone by teammates with a grain of salt simply because players can't be publicly critical. It would be career suicide.

Back to the original question.

What can you point to as evidence of good leadership?

You've already contradicted your original answer of, "good record".
You've admitted that public comment from teammates is unreliable.

What is your evidence that Dak is a great leader?

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

There you go again. I did not say one single thing about the quality of Wentz's play. You should stop doing that. Makes you look foolish. It's also classic goal post moving. Any port in a storm, eh? lol

The comment about Taylor "giving his credit to Wentz" is GOLD. I do actually agree that you have to take the glowing praise said into a microphone by teammates with a grain of salt simply because players can't be publicly critical. It would be career suicide.

Back to the original question.

What can you point to as evidence of good leadership?

You've already contradicted your original answer of, "good record".
You've admitted that public comment from teammates is unreliable.

What is your evidence that Dak is a great leader?

I never said "good record" was the only way to gauge what a leader is. I brought up Dak's record to show his leadership. You brought up being "rah rah" and yelling as being a good leader. You are the one pushing goal posts...you've gotten away from the original discussion of is Dak a leader to trying to tell me YOUR definition of what a leader is is the true definition. I told you what a leader is. I told you some guys lead by example. Some lead with their play. Everyone isn't a yell in your face type guy. Yet, you ignore that and bring up nincompoops like Carson Wentz because his team wins in spite of him and not his leadership.

And where the hell did I say anything about public comments from teammates? I don't think you're capable of debating more than one person at a time because you're confusing me with someone else. Dial it back some and take it one step at a time.

 

[Vtwin]

I never said "good record" was the only way to gauge what a leader is. I brought up Dak's record to show his leadership. You brought up being "rah rah" and yelling as being a good leader. You are the one pushing goal posts...you've gotten away from the original discussion of is Dak a leader to trying to tell me YOUR definition of what a leader is is the true definition. I told you what a leader is. I told you some guys lead by example. Some lead with their play. Everyone isn't a yell in your face type guy. Yet, you ignore that and bring up nincompoops like Carson Wentz because his team wins in spite of him and not his leadership.

And where the hell did I say anything about public comments from teammates? I don't think you're capable of debating more than one person at a time because you're confusing me with someone else. Dial it back some and take it one step at a time.

lol
There you go yet again.
I have not said one single thing regarding what good leadership is. Where are you even coming up with that?

I asked you three times what you see that is evidence of good leadership and the only thing you came up with was team record. At least for some QB's, but not others.

You literally stated that team record was good evidence of the leadership of two QB's while refusing to use the same standard for a third. You literally said that the real leader of the Colts (in your opinion) was "of course" giving credit to the QB instead of taking credit himself. You literally brought the 'publicly commenting' aspect into this discussion.

You are literally arguing with yourself.

Quite clearly, as you can plainly see by simply scrolling back, you are the only person I am interacting with so no, I am not confusing anything.

I'm surprised you are so willing to put this all on tape. It's not helping your highlight reel at all.

lol

Do you have anything other than "team record" to point to as evidence of leadership. or not.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

lol
There you go yet again.
I have not said one single thing regarding what good leadership is. Where are you even coming up with that?

I asked you three times what you see that is evidence of good leadership and the only thing you came up with was team record. At least for some QB's, but not others.

You literally stated that team record was good evidence of the leadership of two QB's while refusing to use the same standard for a third. You literally said that the real leader of the Colts (in your opinion) was "of course" giving credit to the QB instead of taking credit himself. You literally brought the 'publicly commenting' aspect into this discussion.

You are literally arguing with yourself.

Quite clearly, as you can plainly see by simply scrolling back, you are the only person I am interacting with so no, I am not confusing anything.

I'm surprised you are so willing to put this all on tape. It's not helping your highlight reel at all.

lol

Do you have anything other than "team record" to point to as evidence of leadership. or not.

So do you need me to show you the post where I brought up other leaders like Dirk to show that there's more than one way to lead?

And I'll ask you AGAIN since you conveniently didn't address my post. WHERE DID I SAY ANYTHING ABOUT PUBLIC COMMENTS FROM TEAMMATES?

I'm not a loser I don't care about a highlight reel. Nobody gives enough of a damn about my posts or anyone else on this site to make a "highlight reel" of posts lol. Or maybe one person does I guess.....

 

[CATCH17]

Yes, absolutely.

Why?

He’s only as good as those around him and he makes more than QBs better than him.


Dak Prescott isn’t close to worth his contract. He’s proven that he’s actually a complete rip off.

You can find a lot of QBs who can win under the same conditions that Dak needs for cheaper.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

I think you are arguing a point with yourself as what I said was completely either misunderstood or went over your head.

I am not opposed to drafting a QB, but there are risks...as you said, going back to 2000 12 QBs have won superbowl...in 20 years, only 12 different ones and 7 were first rounders. great. in that same period 63 QBs were drafted in the first round. everyone drafts QBs in the first round, reaches for them, thinks them to be what they may not be. of course!!! why? because having a QB is the easiest way to make it to the superbowl....it actually is the cheapest way despite the contract numbers that we see lately.

and QBs come in all rounds....all kinds of players come in all rounds....chances of 1st rounders succeeding is higher....probabilities are higher and over the years, you look at first rounders, vs. other rounds and more first rounders succeed. in all positions. they are usually more talented physically, come from bigger programs, smarter, and have had great college performances, etc....that's stating the obvious not discovering a hidden fact. but the lower in the round, the less the probability....do you find good ones in lower part of draft? yes, Brady was 6th...who is an exception rather than the rule.

my point, rookie QBs take time to develop (I am sure you are going to point to Mac Jones the exception working with Bilicheck rather than the rule ala Wilson, Lawrence, Fields). rarely a team as talented as NE, with the GOAT as headcoach, has his players take a year off, so they end up with a top 15 pick to choose a QB at the right time when GOAT QB leaves for another team....

so again, not opposed to go draft route, but to have a better chance of finding the right QB, then you have to draft higher in the round usually top 10, for that you have to stink it up or get unlucky like cowboys and deal with ton of injuries, etc. to end up in the top 10-15 range.....plus a rookie QB will take time develop (despite Mac Jones' record or what Marino did). then we are wasting our money paying collins, smith, zeke, cooper, martin...we should just trade/cut and tank and go for it and rebuild.....

and given you seem to understand odds, since you said QBs in rounds 3rd and lower don't have much chance of succes, then odds are 7/63 that we may find a QB that can take us competitive.....or 56/63 that we won't.

I'm not sure you understand my point. You HAVE to make a decision and there are only 2 options. My point is simple - your odds are better to win a SB with a first round QB. It doesn't matter if 7/63 is a long shot. It doesn't matter if QBs take time to develop. The point is it's a longer shot with a QB outside the first round, so you can choose A (a first rounder) or B (2nd or later), by draft or free agency I don't care, but there is no option C. It's an easy decision when A has a proven greater chance of success than B.

 

[Vtwin]

So do you need me to show you the post where I brought up other leaders like Dirk to show that there's more than one way to lead?

And I'll ask you AGAIN since you conveniently didn't address my post. WHERE DID I SAY ANYTHING ABOUT PUBLIC COMMENTS FROM TEAMMATES?

I'm not a loser I don't care about a highlight reel. Nobody gives enough of a damn about my posts or anyone else on this site to make a "highlight reel" of posts lol. Or maybe one person does I guess.....

You are confused. I never asked you anything about methods of leadership. I asked you what evidence do you see that indicates a well led (@Runwildboys ;-) ) team. Is that to much for you to comprehend?

Jonathan Taylor is the real leader of that team but of course give his credit to Wentz.

Those are your words. You literally said a player was publicly commenting in a manner that falsely gave credit to the QB. You literally brought that aspect into the discussion. It's literally right there in black and white.

You also clearly don't get analogies, sarcasm or simple references. You seriously believe I actually think there are actual highlight reels for posters? LOL

Now, do you or do you not have any examples of good leadership to point to other than team record, which you have successful discredited all by yourself.

You're never going to get in the Zone Ring of Honor this way. lol

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

You are confused. I never asked you anything about methods of leadership. I asked you what evidence do you see that indicates a well led (@Runwildboys ;-) ) team. Is that to much for you to comprehend?



Those are your words. You literally said a player was publicly commenting in a manner that falsely gave credit to the QB. You literally brought that aspect into the discussion. It's literally right there in black and white.

You also clearly don't get analogies, sarcasm or simple references. You seriously believe I actually think there are actual highlight reels for posters? LOL

Now, do you or do you not have any examples of good leadership to point to other than team record, which you have successful discredited all by yourself.

You're never going to get in the Zone Ring of Honor this way. lol

Oh so NOW you are being sarcastic and using analogies.....alright lol. When you get called out for a lie let's just blame it on a poster not understanding your "sarcasm". Think what you want nothing is getting solved here. Dak's a bad leader. You got it champ.........I have no interest in a back and forth with someone who's debating skills requires them to constantly tell the other poster what they "can't do" or "won't do". Childlike behavior.

Add this one to your "reel" too.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

You obviously don't watch them play if you think Hollywood Brown is a 3rd option you must be confusing him with Sammy Watkins lol. And Lamar is legit with less touchdowns, passing yards, lesser completion rate than Dak? Interesting. Y'all boost up anyone else but your own QB....amazing lol.

You're putting up a good fight without your band wagon, fair weather buddies backing you up.

You're losing, because you will never be able to speak into existence that Dak is a great QB, because he is what he is, but I respect the effort.