CFZ Why Speed Matters

FuzzyLumpkins

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Having said that, the reason Armstrong doesn't get sacks is his lack of speed, even though his arm length is sufficient. Micah Parsons gets home because of his extraordinary speed, and Sam Williams will have to do the same. 33" arms should be the minimum for a DE prospect, but I much prefer 34" or longer arms.

I heard this line of thinking often when people were telling me Joey Bosa was going to be a bust.

the reason why DA doesn't get many sacks is because he is a backup and doesn't get many attempts first and foremost. Long speed has nothing to do with finishing. You have to be able to change direction, maintain balance, and explode in order to finish a pass rush, not sustain a good speed for 40 yards. Arm length is useful for fending off blocks.
 

USArmyVet

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Thanks for the detailed post but keep in mind that some of the 40 times posted were during that respective players draft combine and variables like age and injury would have impacted those times. I doubt that players like Tyron Smith, Anthony Brown, DLaw, Dak, and Zeke (among others) still can post the same or better 40 time they once did.

Therefore, for some positional groups that may be initially seen as good to excellent speed are in fact average or below average today.
 

losersgetcute

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Agree and all you need to do is look at Jerry Rice. Wasn’t the fastest but when he put on pads, look out. I would also put in Brady. Ran one of the slowest 40 at the combine every but his mental speed is second to none.
The speed at which he messages his people to drain air out of game balls is second to none...Brady is a clown. Marino is the goat.
 

DanA

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Speed is a factor but I think you've missed the mark on the evaluation of WR. There are so many top WR's that don't meet the 4.5 forty threshold but find other ways to win.

  1. Cooper Kupp
  2. Devante Adams
  3. DeAndre Hopkins
  4. Michael Thomas
  5. Mike Evans
  6. Allen Robinson
  7. Jarwin Landry
  8. Antonio Brown
I'd guess half the top 10 / top 20 wide recievers over the last 5 years don't meet this 4.5 forty threshold you've set. And then there are plenty of mid-tier slot-only guys (Renfrow, Beasley etc) that are limited but worthwhile NFL players.

It's the same at TE as well except I think to be a truly elite TE you need that speed to be really effective with YAC and attacking up the seem. Guys like Witten though have shown you can make an effective career scoring singles and doubles rather than the home run.
 

tyke1doe

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"Claim " or not .. everybody knows Jerry Rice was not a 4.4 40 time guy... his 40 time was a reason why he slipped as a 1st round WR in his draft class ( Al Toon, Eddie Brown, Jessie Hester) but everybody also knows that his play speed ...his field- fast play put him in that state where he runs and plays faster than he 40 times.

Some don't get what the " field-fast " mode is ..

It's been time proven over that the 4.2...4.3...and 4.4 guys in the 40 tie ..doesn't always translate to the playing field ... guys that don't play up to their 40 times

It doesn't add up that Jerry Rice ran a 4.6, and he was a first-round draft choice. He came from Mississippi Valley State - not exactly a powerhouse college program. He played against guys who likely weren't top players or even pro-bound players.

So, there would be some doubt about his speed translating to the pros if he was running away from, essentially, junior college players.

I think Jerry Rice was faster than 4.6; otherwise, I doubt the 49ers would have taken him that high, specially based on game tape against inferior competition.

That's my take.
 

tyke1doe

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A lot people cite Jerry Rice and his 4.6 speed, but he's an outlier.

It would be interesting to examine a list of Hall of Fame receivers and their actual 40 times. (T.O. ran a 4.65)

Speed is important otherwise scouts wouldn't test for it. But for receivers it's about speed and, more so, quickness in and out of your breaks. And, of course, having hands to catch the ball.
 

RonnieT24

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Why would it be somewhere between what he ran when he was sick and what he ran when he wasn't sick, rather than just being what he ran when he wasn't sick?

You already know the answer to this question. Pro Day times simply cannot be trusted. Teams make every effort to set things up so the kids can run amazing times. A lot of them are also hand timed.. which also cannot be trusted. But the fact of the matter is falling in love with any one trait is always a fools errand. Football isn't played in shorts and running all straight lines..
 

RonnieT24

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It doesn't add up that Jerry Rice ran a 4.6, and he was a first-round draft choice. He came from Mississippi Valley State - not exactly a powerhouse college program. He played against guys who likely weren't top players or even pro-bound players.

So, there would be some doubt about his speed translating to the pros if he was running away from, essentially, junior college players.

I think Jerry Rice was faster than 4.6; otherwise, I doubt the 49ers would have taken him that high, specially based on game tape against inferior competition.

That's my take.

Rice was probably not much faster than 4.6 going from a standing start. If you ever watched him run you would know he is what we refer to as a long strider. Those guys typically take longer to get going than smaller quicker guys. My guess is that in Rice's case if he had been a track man he would have been a 200 meter or 400 meter man. He had a long, beautiful stride but simply might not have been as explosive from a dead start as some others. And Mississippi Valley State is 1-AA. That aint no "junior college level players." There are a probably a few dozen Hall of Famers who played on that same level as them.. Mean Joe Greene, Walter Payton, Deacon Jones, Shannon Sharpe, Bob Hayes, Harold Jackson, Michael Strahan, Gene Upshaw, John Randle, Larry Little, and on and on and on.. You should show those guys a little more respect.
 

Verdict

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Wonderful OP. I want to give you ten likes for that post.

Speed kills. I think that you will see Turpin featured a lot (if Kellen Moore has any sense whatsoever). Get Turpin in space and let him do his thing. He is POISON in the open field.

Lawrence was way over drafted and way over valued on this roster. He is a mid round talent that has made a living based off of limited flashes.
 

eromeopolk

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The NFL measures 40 yard dash times when evaluating NFL prospects. For some positions, such as Defensive Tackle, offensive line, and Quarterback, speed is nice, but not really required. However even for those positions, greater speed in the 40 yard dash indicates greater athleticism, and a muscle composition that indicates a higher level of athleticism.

Speed matters most for the positions that run the most - Wide Receiver and Cornerback. And there is a certain level of athleticism that NFL teams look for that indicates elite potential. The following positional minimums are what I've gleaned from over 25 years of looking at NFL drafts, and how draft prospects ultimately performed in the NFL statistically. Of course, there are exceptions, but they are rare. Also below each minimum are lists of current Cowboys players, and how they measure up to the minimum standard.

Cornerback - Minimum 40 yard dash time - 4.45 seconds
Cornerbacks need to be the fastest players on the field. This is because they go up against the second fastest group, wide receivers, and cornerbacks need recovery speed when they get beat on a route. Wide Receivers will consistently beat cornerbacks because they know what route they are running, while a cornerback must react. So recovery speed is of critical importance.

4.35 - Anthony Brown - starter
4.35 - Kelvin Joseph
4.41 - CJ Goodwin
4.42 - Trevon Diggs - starter
4.46 - DaRon Bland
4.49 - Nahshon Wright
4.54 - Jourdan Lewis - starter​

The Cowboys have 7 CB's on the roster and 4 of them meet the minimum standard, including the two starting CB's. There is a reason that Jourdan Lewis, who was stellar in college, is limited in the NFL. He's too slow to play outside receivers, and when the opposing slot receivers are fast, he's too slow to play the slot. He can make up for it with instincts, but only so much. The Cowboys obviously want to upgrade the speed of Lewis, as he's more suited to dime CB than nickel CB. DaRon Bland is borderline, and Nahshon Wright's height does make up for some lack of speed if playing against tall, but slower wide receivers. If Joseph can become what was expected when the Cowboys drafted him with the 44th overall pick last year, then Brown can move back into the slot, and the Cowboys will have the speed they need at the 3 starting positions.

Wide Receiver - minimum 40 yard dash time - 4.50 seconds
Wide Receivers must be fast enough to beat cornerbacks, and fast enough to run away from safeties. Because they know where they are going, wide receivers will always have an advantage on cornerbacks, but that advantage can disappear very quickly if they aren't fast enough to maintain a gap after they make their breaks when running routes.

4.31 Kavontae Turpin
4.37 Simi Fehoko
4.45 Michael Gallup - starter
4.48 Jalen Tolbert - starter
4.51 CeeDee Lamb - starter
4.52 Dennis Houston
4.52 Brandon Smith - PS
4.54 James Washington - IR
4.56 Noah Brown
4.60 Dontario Drummond - PS​

The Cowboys don't have great speed in their WR corps, which makes it harder to get open, and makes the windows that Dak Prescott must throw into tighter. Speed is not the only factor, as route running precision matters quite a bit. But it makes it more difficult to get big plays with a slower WR corps, and that means it is harder to get TD's. CeeDee Lamb is a borderline player according to speed, but he's very elusive. The other starter, Michael Gallup has good WR speed, and draft pick Jalen Tolbert also has good speed. Turpin is the new addition who will be the primary returner, but he lacks route running ability. Fehoko is a better downfield threat on offense. Noah Brown is entering his 6th year in Dallas primarily because of his size and blocking ability. He's not a downfield threat at all. And there is a reason that James Washington never lived up to his 2nd round draft status - and that's because he shouldn't have been a 2nd round pick because he's too slow.

Running Back - minimum 40 yard dash time - 4.55 seconds
Running backs must have lateral quickness. Speed is important, but can be made up for with vision, lateral quickness, and balance. Emmitt Smith barely met the minimum speed, but his vision, lateral quickness and balance were exceptional. Running backs need the speed to outrun linebackers and safeties to get to the edge, and beat the angles that favor the defensive players.

4.47 Ezekiel Elliott - starter
4.52 Tony Pollard
4.54 Rico Dowdle
4.57 Malik Davis - PS
4.58 Qadree Ollison - PS​

The Cowboys have good speed in their RB corps, but there is some question as to whether Elliott has slowed down since he was drafted 6 years ago. That could be why his YPC average is dropping. But his first three years in the NFL, he used his speed to be at the top of the NFL RB yardage lists.

Safety - minimum 40 yard dash time - 4.65 seconds
Safeties typically play with the ball in front of them, and get to survey the field. This means that their reaction times are not as critical as they are for cornerbacks. But they still need the speed to get from sideline to sideline, and must be able to chase down ball carriers to make plays.

4.36 Tyler Coyle - PS
4.41 Markquese Bell
4.46 Israel Mukuamu
4.47 Malik Hooker - starter
4.55 Juanyeh Thomas - PS
4.62 Jayron Kearse - starter
4.85 Donovan Wilson​

Overall, the Cowboys have good to excellent speed in their safeties. I love Donovan Wilson's instincts, and he really shows up when playing in preseason against lower quality competition. But he'll never break into the starting lineup because of his lack of speed. The Cowboys have some very fast youngsters on the team playing safety.

Linebacker - minimum 40 yard dash time - 4.68 seconds
Linebackers can be slower than RB's because they have an advantage of playing downhill and have better angles to cover running backs. But they do need sideline to sideline speed to play the game effectively.

4.39 Micah Parsons - starter
4.50 Devin Harper
4.52 Malik Jefferson - PS
4.52 Jabril Cox
4.57 Damone Clark - NFI
4.65 Leighton Vander Esch - starter
4.66 Anthony Barr
4.68 Luke Gifford
4.70 Davonte Bond - IR​

Overall, the Cowboys have good to excellent speed with their linebackers. Micah Parsons is a freak, and Anthony Barr was drafted to play in a 3-4 defense, so his 4.66 speed is good when it comes to rushing the passer, and passable when covering running backs as long as he maintains good angles.

Tight End - minimum 40 yard dash time - 4.70 seconds
There is obviously a difference between a Tight End who is used primarily as a blocker and one who is primarily a receiver. The ideal Tight End has a combination of blocking and receiving skills. Large bodied, tall receivers can be taught to block, but there are some tight ends in college that eventually convert to Offensive Tackle and become Pro Bowl players at OT. This is a hard position to find an elite player.

4.72 Sean McKeon - PS
4.75 Dalton Schultz - starter
4.80 Peyton Hendershot
4.81 Jake Ferguson
4.93 Ian Bunting - IR​

Overall, the Cowboys are slow at Tight End, and this is an area of weakness the Cowboys will likely address in a future draft. Most of their Tight Ends are more suited to blocking than receiving. Recently retired and future HOF tight end Jason Witten ran a 4.65 in the 40 yard dash.

Defensive End - minimum 40 yard dash time 4.80 seconds
Elite DE's run below 4.70 seconds. Randy Gregory ran a 4.64, which explains why the Cowboys offered him a $70 million contract. Soon-to-be HOF player Demarcus Ware ran 4.56. DE's need to have closing speed to get to the quarterback when rushing the passer, and also speed enough to chase down running backs trying to get outside the edge of the defense. Technique and pass rushing moves are also important, but speed is a differentiating factor - e.g. Micah Parsons in 2021.

4.46 Sam Williams
4.61 Dante Fowler, Jr.
4.64 Tarell Basham
4.80 Demarcus Lawrence - starter
4.83 Chauncey Golston
4.87 Dorance Armstrong - starter
4.95 Mika Tafua - PS​

The Cowboys have been slow at DE for a number of years, which is why they haven't gotten very many sacks compared to other NFL teams. Adding Dante Fowler, Jr. and Sam Williams to the roster this year is an attempt to get faster. Although he is currently listed as the starter, there is a reason Dorance Armstrong is taken out on passing downs. He is simply too slow to get to the QB. Expect Armstrong to lose his starting position. In my opinion, giving a $100 million contract to Lawrence was always a mistake. His 10 sack seasons were flukes, and there was and is no reason to expect him to repeat that performance in the future. This is also the reason Micah Parsons lining up at DE was such a refreshing change last season. This is also the reason Dan Quinn is so excited about Sam Williams.

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Speed is simply not a determining factor of success for the Defensive Tackle, Offensive Line, and Quarterback positions. Because of that, some offensive and defensive line players do not participate (DNP) in the 40 yard dash when being tested. But here are the 40 times for Cowboys players in these other positions.

Quarterback - desired 40 yard dash time - 4.90 or less

4.81 Dak Prescott - starter
4.84 Will Grier - PS
4.93 Cooper Rush - PS​

Offensive Tackle - desired 40 yard dash time - 5.05 or less
Offensive Tackles need to be more athletic than Guards and Centers, so their 40 times indicate a level of athleticism required for the position.

4.81 Aviante Collins - PS
4.93 Jason Peters - contract pending
4.95 Tyron Smith - IR
5.02 Tyler Smith - starter
5.03 Terence Steele - starter
5.03 Matt Waletzko
5.20 Josh Ball
Speed is one reason I have higher hopes for Matt Waletzko than Josh Ball. Ball may not have quick enough feet to be the "dancing bear" we need at Left Tackle. He may still be able to make it in the NFL as a right tackle or offensive guard. It's not an accident that the two players on this list with 17 Pro Bowl appearances and 10 1st and 2nd team All-Pro selections between them are sub-5.0 in the 40 yard dash.

Defensive Tackle - desired 40 yard dash time - 5.05 or less

4.72 Neville Gallimore - starter
4.73 Osa Odighizuwa - starter
5.01 Carlos Watkins - PS
5.04 Trysten Hill
5.30 John Ridgeway
5.48 Quinton Bohanna​

It shouldn't shock anyone that the fastest two DT's on the team are the starters. Obviously, Ridgeway and Bohanna are NT type run stuffers only. By comparison, All-World DT Aaron Donald had a 4.68 40 time.

Offensive Guard and Center - 5.30 or less

5.05 Dakoda Shepley - PS
5.18 Alec Lindstrom - PS
5.20 Matt Farniok
5.36 Tyler Biadasz - starter
DNP - Isaac Alarcon - PS
DNP Zack Martin - starter
DNP Connor McGovern - starter​

Specialists - Punter, Place Kicker and Long Snapper - 40 times irrelevant

4.86 Bryan Anger
4.89 Brett Maher - PS
5.07 Jake McQuiade​
Speed kills. All Cowboy Dynasty teams of the late 60's, 70's, and 90's were built on speed, strength, and explosiveness.

However, some of your 40 yd times are wrong. High School stats are not accurate. Examples, even though Donovan Wilson did not run at combine or Pro Day, his 39" vertical, short shuttle, and cone drill would never give a 6-0-199 a 4.85 40yd time. Turpin on his Pro day ran a 4.50 40 yard time.
 

RonnieT24

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Speed kills. All Cowboy Dynasty teams of the late 60's, 70's, and 90's were built on speed, strength, and explosiveness.

However, some of your 40 yd times are wrong. High School stats are not accurate. Examples, even though Donovan Wilson did not run at combine or Pro Day, his 39" vertical, short shuttle, and cone drill would never give a 6-0-199 a 4.85 40yd time. Turpin on his Pro day ran a 4.50 40 yard time.

Turpin got kicked off the team at TCU and never actually had an official pro day. His agent arranged an individual work out for him with some scouts present.. And he reportedly scorched a couple of sub 4.3s during the workout.. though they were hand timed. And he still went undrafted.
 

Nexx

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Jerry Rice 4.71
Emmitt Smith 4.55
Junior Seau 4.68
Tom Brady 5.28
Rob Gronkowski 4.68
Joey Bosa 4.88
Xavien Howard 4.58
Larry Fitzgerald 4.68
Chris Carter 4.63
Anquon Bolden 4.71
Julius Peppers 4.68

I could go on and on. And the end of the day. Can the player play?
 

Bigdog

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The speed at which he messages his people to drain air out of game balls is second to none...Brady is a clown. Marino is the goat.
I respectfully disagree. Marino was a great qb and a talented one at that but Brady has won 7 SB and has led his team to 10. Brady is the goat but that is just my opinion.
 

DanA

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Wonderful OP. I want to give you ten likes for that post.

Speed kills. I think that you will see Turpin featured a lot (if Kellen Moore has any sense whatsoever). Get Turpin in space and let him do his thing. He is POISON in the open field.

Lawrence was way over drafted and way over valued on this roster. He is a mid round talent that has made a living based off of limited flashes.

If I could give this minus 10 likes I would. He might not be a 20m DE but you're tripping if you think he was a mid-round talent over-drafted.
 

VaqueroTD

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For those arguing speed doesn’t matter, go watch the 1991 team documentary someone posted on page one. Speed built a dynasty.

The only 40 speed on that list that surprises me is Hendershot. Didn’t know Schultz and McKeon had better burners than him, I thought he was the bulky wideout in disguise. Also thought Pollard was faster than Zeke at this point. Is that Zeke’s rookie 40 time?
 

plasticman

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I figured that speed matters because then if you have the ball and you're faster than the others they aren't going to catch you.
 

Verdict

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If I could give this minus 10 likes I would. He might not be a 20m DE but you're tripping if you think he was a mid-round talent over-drafted.
Sorry. Tank has proven he’s not an impact player. He’s a decent run stopper who doesn’t get sacks. He was clearly over drafted. He is also clearly overpaid.
 
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