Sheduer dropping like a lead weight

If
atlantacowboy said:
The #1 pick next year isn't being traded if it's Arch Manning. I doubt J-ville or cleveland is going to finish with the worst record. They may take a QB high next year but that depends on what they think of their 2 rookies. You don't spend 2 picks on rookie QBs if the plan is to draft a QB next year
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atlantacowboy said:
The #1 pick next year isn't being traded if it's Arch Manning. I doubt J-ville or cleveland is going to finish with the worst record. They may take a QB high next year but that depends on what they think of their 2 rookies. You don't spend 2 picks on rookie QBs if the plan is to draft a QB next year.
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I bet Manning stays another year, would not shock me.
 
atlantacowboy said:
Well, now you are the one alone on an island. This drop is the biggest story of the draft. It's being talked about everywhere.
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I was saying or implying after he fell out of the first, he could continue into the 3rd. I'm just saying, he comes with a lot of baggage that boils down to him being a huge distraction for any team serious about winning a SB.

I can't believe Deion, or Shedeur, for that matter, think what they're doing is OK.

Even after his "fall," Deion is arranging a meeting with the Browns.

That's part of the problem here. Their egos are too big to take the obvious hint that's already been signaled--by the entire league.

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/top-players-still-available.534427/#post-14150374
 
What’s exactly stopping Shadeur Sanders from being the Browns QB mid season . Watson looks washed . Talk about value in a 5th round pick .
 
atlantacowboy said:
Have you ever seen such a large discrepancy between mock drafts and the actual draft slot for a Qb? I haven't. These guys have league contacts and they don't miss like this. It just doesn't happen. Every mock had Sheduer in the top 10 let alone round 5. If it was a talent issue, then it would have been obvious to everyone. This was something else.
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It was a talent issue AND something else. Media circus, arrogant interviews. And then add in that he's short, slow, not athletic, and has questionable arm strength. Offhand, I'd say the ones rating him high were not doing their homework.

The mocks had him high, but I read more than one scout who was not impressed.
 
FanofJerry said:
You hit it on the head...

T-shirt and slippers means nothing to production.

It's a pony show.

No serious texh company is turning down the best programmer in the world over a t-shirt and sandals act.

You've been checkmate.

I'll go further. No bank is turning down the best mathematician in the world over a shirt and shoes.

You're reaching.
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you have seven foot long arms the way you are reaching
 
Pass2Run said:
I mean, if his last name wasn't Sanders is he viewed top 10 by anyone?

I don't think so.
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By no one. Small school product who didn't win there very much w/ limited athleticism and arm strength. Take away the name and he sounds like a UFA. Late round camp arm, something like that.
 
kskboys said:
By no one. Small school product who didn't win there very much w/ limited athleticism and arm strength. Take away the name and he sounds like a UFA. Late round camp arm, something like that.
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Mid round talent. For sure. Like 3rd or 4th. Add Helicopter Deion and it's 5th round.
 
Sheduer and his Dad is to blame a great deal for the predicament they have found themselves in.

I have about 4 reporters and one player that is now a reporter or should I say in the media.

Each have said they they have been told by multiple people about various issues behind the scenes.

First...contrary to what some media scouts and non NFL scout people think...He was not in the same league of Cam when it comes to his current status.

He had issues with holding on to the ball to long. He does not have great arm strength, it is not bad, just not great. His offensive system never really took shape as he was too busy with a make shift offensive line which made him scramble to make plays causing players to break routes and come back to balls...Kind of reminded me of Tim Couch. He bombed in the NFL but was so great in college. It was because HC Hal Mumme and Couch had a very limited play book. There were times when they were pretty much drawing up plays on the sideline.

So that is just some of things that scouts talked about concerning some of his QB issues.

Now to the attitude issues. One person said when they were interviewing him they pointed out a few things he will need to work on but he basically came across like he already did those things well so no need to change them.
Another person reported that Daboll and the Giants at one point had him as their top choice, knowing that cam was going to the titans. However that completely changed and Daboll and the Giants FO removed him from their board after their interview. According to the story. Daboll and the coaches asked Shedeur to look at the playbook and they would ask him some questions about it. Well when it came to asking him questions about some the plays and concepts to see if he looked and understood...it was clear that he had not bothered to look it over. And I guess this really pissed of Daboll and words were shouted and or exchanged.
A little later you started to hear about the rumors of Dart being the favorite of the Giants.

Sheduer and/or Prime told some teams that were requesting an interview that they did not think he was a fit for them or they were not a fit for him. Either way they basically said nah, we not bothering to waste time on you.


Another reporter said that multiple coaches said that they just were not impressed with his interviews and attitude. It just did not sit well with them that the young man is interviewing and does not seem to take it seriously.

One reporter said that he had talked to some scouts from various teams and the scouts felt they were not getting honest answers from colorado players but mostly coaches. Independent scouts told the reporter that they got the impression that some in that program was afraid to say anything negative. To be fair, most coaches will not bad mouth a player unless they were really lazy or pissed off the coaches. But this seemed more like they were afraid to say anything negative because his dad was the head coach and responsible for them getting paid. Just something to consider.

The other thing a couple said was that Sheduer has been pretty much a player under his dad who was also his head coach for most if not all of his career. This means that there was a pretty good chance that he was named starting QB even if he did not earn it or even had any competition for it.

So there was a mix of QB things and attitude issues. Anyone remember what the Tuna said. He did not want a celebrity QB. Now I think to degree that was over blown but with Sheduer it would not be. He is used to his dad having celebrities on the sidelines. They already have their own show and he will probably never been told no when it comes to football. You do NOT want a franchise QB to have the attitude that even if the coaches say you need to change and work on things...that you do them the right way and do not need to change. Sends a terrible message to other players when you are the ultimate Leader when becoming a starting QB

Now with all of that said. His QB skills/abilities are better than where he was drafted. He does not have the Elite arm strength that so many scouts and coaches dream about, even to their own detriment. But he does have enough talent to be drafted earlier than that and that is saying something as most QBs are over drafted. Now some Coaches/GMs might think that his skill is ok but not enough to put up with the potential drama and circus he would bring to a team. I mean if you have an established starting QB, he is not on his last contract/legs, I don't think you would want him as the back up that fans or media would be clamoring for even if the starter is playing well.

John Elway and Eli Manning are the ones everyone remembers basically dictating where they would go to play when being drafted. Elway said he did not want to play for the Colts. The Colts drafted him anyway and he said he would refuse to sign and he could just go play baseball. The colts agreed to trade him. Similar thing with Eli and his Dad. He did not want Eli going to a bad team and the Chargers ownership at the time was known to be very cheap and not really putting the money or effort into their team like other owners did. Well the chargers drafted him but it was made clear that he would not sign so they made a deal to trade him to the Giants and got some returns for their trouble.

These two are different from Shedur or Shedeur and Prime/

They had superior talent and arms that scouts were drooling over. Elway was even known to put what they called the Elway cross on receivers hands. He throw it so hard that the seems at the point off the pull left marks that kind of looked like a cross.

Point is there were superior product.. Since they were that type of product or talent....other teams would work around any kind of perceived drama or diva stuff. In other words they thought the Return Of Investment was worth putting up with the other stuff...and it turned out that it was.

Shedeur might turn out to be a great player down the road. If IF he can win the starting job with the browns and he does well with the browns, he might become a bit of a legend because few QBs have been able to do it. When Brian Sipe, Bernie Kosar and Baker Mayfield are considered to be the best QBs and fan favorites of long timers....that is saying something.

So Can he do it, Who knows. Does has lack of skills bad enough to drop him as far as he fell, no. Was he better than some QBs that went before him I think he is and will be in the league longer than some of them.

But there is no guarantee.

I read or watched a number of fans, reporters. nfl scouts, coaches and so on two different sides to this

One side is he is being taught a lesson and the teams and owners colluded to push him down a peg or two because of his attitude and other reasons that are not allowed.

There are others that think he deserves all of this because of his attitude. Just like a number of Fans like the skill that Prime put on the field but a number of people did not like his attitude. Mohammed Ali also had people that loved and people who hated him for being a showboat...and other reasons that are not allowed.

Now off the top of my head I do not recall the last time we have heard of what some consider a top QB completely blowing it by basically pissing off a bunch of NFL teams be refusing to interview, for being disrespectful or just not seeming to care.

However I know that scouts, coaches and Owners will wade through a river of toro caca for a player that has series skills they think would help their team...Lawrence Phillips comes to mind.

But QBs are even more. I know everyone who follows the draft or football for years has seen bad QBs get drafted WAY before they ever should and 90 percent of those have an elite arm and size They might have accuracy issues. maybe turn the ball over too much or hold on to the ball too long, stare down WRs...but if they have size and an elite arm these coaches think they can coach them up

And we see so many times that it has not worked out. Trubisky, Ponder, Locker, EJ Manuel, Jeff George and maybe the kid with the strongest arm ever...Jamarcus Russell...his other issues were not a secret but his size and that cannon of the arm where he could kneel down and still throw it most of the way down the field. It had those scouts and coaches drooling.

Ok...I babbled on long enough...guess my meds are kicking in.
 
BrAinPaiNt said:
Sheduer and his Dad is to blame a great deal for the predicament they have found themselves in.

I have about 4 reporters and one player that is now a reporter or should I say in the media.

Each have said they they have been told by multiple people about various issues behind the scenes.

First...contrary to what some media scouts and non NFL scout people think...He was not in the same league of Cam when it comes to his current status.

He had issues with holding on to the ball to long. He does not have great arm strength, it is not bad, just not great. His offensive system never really took shape as he was too busy with a make shift offensive line which made him scramble to make plays causing players to break routes and come back to balls...Kind of reminded me of Tim Couch. He bombed in the NFL but was so great in college. It was because HC Hal Mumme and Couch had a very limited play book. There were times when they were pretty much drawing up plays on the sideline.

So that is just some of things that scouts talked about concerning some of his QB issues.

Now to the attitude issues. One person said when they were interviewing him they pointed out a few things he will need to work on but he basically came across like he already did those things well so no need to change them.
Another person reported that Daboll and the Giants at one point had him as their top choice, knowing that cam was going to the titans. However that completely changed and Daboll and the Giants FO removed him from their board after their interview. According to the story. Daboll and the coaches asked Shedeur to look at the playbook and they would ask him some questions about it. Well when it came to asking him questions about some the plays and concepts to see if he looked and understood...it was clear that he had not bothered to look it over. And I guess this really pissed of Daboll and words were shouted and or exchanged.
A little later you started to hear about the rumors of Dart being the favorite of the Giants.

Sheduer and/or Prime told some teams that were requesting an interview that they did not think he was a fit for them or they were not a fit for him. Either way they basically said nah, we not bothering to waste time on you.


Another reporter said that multiple coaches said that they just were not impressed with his interviews and attitude. It just did not sit well with them that the young man is interviewing and does not seem to take it seriously.

One reporter said that he had talked to some scouts from various teams and the scouts felt they were not getting honest answers from colorado players but mostly coaches. Independent scouts told the reporter that they got the impression that some in that program was afraid to say anything negative. To be fair, most coaches will not bad mouth a player unless they were really lazy or pissed off the coaches. But this seemed more like they were afraid to say anything negative because his dad was the head coach and responsible for them getting paid. Just something to consider.

The other thing a couple said was that Sheduer has been pretty much a player under his dad who was also his head coach for most if not all of his career. This means that there was a pretty good chance that he was named starting QB even if he did not earn it or even had any competition for it.

So there was a mix of QB things and attitude issues. Anyone remember what the Tuna said. He did not want a celebrity QB. Now I think to degree that was over blown but with Sheduer it would not be. He is used to his dad having celebrities on the sidelines. They already have their own show and he will probably never been told no when it comes to football. You do NOT want a franchise QB to have the attitude that even if the coaches say you need to change and work on things...that you do them the right way and do not need to change. Sends a terrible message to other players when you are the ultimate Leader when becoming a starting QB

Now with all of that said. His QB skills/abilities are better than where he was drafted. He does not have the Elite arm strength that so many scouts and coaches dream about, even to their own detriment. But he does have enough talent to be drafted earlier than that and that is saying something as most QBs are over drafted. Now some Coaches/GMs might think that his skill is ok but not enough to put up with the potential drama and circus he would bring to a team. I mean if you have an established starting QB, he is not on his last contract/legs, I don't think you would want him as the back up that fans or media would be clamoring for even if the starter is playing well.

John Elway and Eli Manning are the ones everyone remembers basically dictating where they would go to play when being drafted. Elway said he did not want to play for the Colts. The Colts drafted him anyway and he said he would refuse to sign and he could just go play baseball. The colts agreed to trade him. Similar thing with Eli and his Dad. He did not want Eli going to a bad team and the Chargers ownership at the time was known to be very cheap and not really putting the money or effort into their team like other owners did. Well the chargers drafted him but it was made clear that he would not sign so they made a deal to trade him to the Giants and got some returns for their trouble.

These two are different from Shedur or Shedeur and Prime/

They had superior talent and arms that scouts were drooling over. Elway was even known to put what they called the Elway cross on receivers hands. He throw it so hard that the seems at the point off the pull left marks that kind of looked like a cross.

Point is there were superior product.. Since they were that type of product or talent....other teams would work around any kind of perceived drama or diva stuff. In other words they thought the Return Of Investment was worth putting up with the other stuff...and it turned out that it was.

Shedeur might turn out to be a great player down the road. If IF he can win the starting job with the browns and he does well with the browns, he might become a bit of a legend because few QBs have been able to do it. When Brian Sipe, Bernie Kosar and Baker Mayfield are considered to be the best QBs and fan favorites of long timers....that is saying something.

So Can he do it, Who knows. Does has lack of skills bad enough to drop him as far as he fell, no. Was he better than some QBs that went before him I think he is and will be in the league longer than some of them.

But there is no guarantee.

I read or watched a number of fans, reporters. nfl scouts, coaches and so on two different sides to this

One side is he is being taught a lesson and the teams and owners colluded to push him down a peg or two because of his attitude and other reasons that are not allowed.

There are others that think he deserves all of this because of his attitude. Just like a number of Fans like the skill that Prime put on the field but a number of people did not like his attitude. Mohammed Ali also had people that loved and people who hated him for being a showboat...and other reasons that are not allowed.

Now off the top of my head I do not recall the last time we have heard of what some consider a top QB completely blowing it by basically pissing off a bunch of NFL teams be refusing to interview, for being disrespectful or just not seeming to care.

However I know that scouts, coaches and Owners will wade through a river of toro caca for a player that has series skills they think would help their team...Lawrence Phillips comes to mind.

But QBs are even more. I know everyone who follows the draft or football for years has seen bad QBs get drafted WAY before they ever should and 90 percent of those have an elite arm and size They might have accuracy issues. maybe turn the ball over too much or hold on to the ball too long, stare down WRs...but if they have size and an elite arm these coaches think they can coach them up

And we see so many times that it has not worked out. Trubisky, Ponder, Locker, EJ Manuel, Jeff George and maybe the kid with the strongest arm ever...Jamarcus Russell...his other issues were not a secret but his size and that cannon of the arm where he could kneel down and still throw it most of the way down the field. It had those scouts and coaches drooling.

Ok...I babbled on long enough...guess my meds are kicking in.
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Reaching
 
FanofJerry said:
What is there to learn?

He is into marketing and selling a brand...something big corps do and make money off of doing.

Deion and him want the best for Shedeur(sp)...what is wrong with that?

He isn't perfect. Twitter spats, throwing his lineman under the bus. That's what all corps do when faced with adversity. Especially when in legal battles.

Why is he not allowed to protect himself?

The only legit answer is this "it's the nfl draft, you go where you are taken"

But, who wants to go to or wants their child going to a team like what Daniel Jones had to deal with for 2 or 3 years in New York? Jones literally could not get a pass off for 2 years? It ruined his career.


Your gonna say that "that's just how it is"...which is lazy and inconsiderate. Why should a player risk his whole upbringing to go to a trash squad and most likely not receive a second contract because of the GM? You can't answer it honestly.

Sure, Jones got his second contract...but he was ruined by New York.

Kids using their platform isn't going away. It's a smart business decision. You can't honestly answer why it's OK for 'higher tiers' to do it, but not for the player.

You're side stepping a bunch of critical information and relying on "that's just how it is"

You're conflicted at worse.

I will agree, he has displayed some drama. He definitely seems like the type to hold out and demand tonnes of money if he produces. But that's business. But only 'owners' are allowed to do that from your view point....why?
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No one is promised or entitled to anything in their life.

If you're children think otherwise, you raised them wrong IMO.

Seems like Deion's kids are finding that out right now.

The QB kid had estimated earnings at 6.5 million in NIL money. Sorry, don't feel sorry one bit for the kid, although I wouldn't be surprised if he pissed everything away. The other one apparently still has a settlement over his head where he declared bankruptcy so he wouldn't have to pay. This because he never showed up for court.
 
DZSierra said:
No one is promised or entitled to anything in their life.

If you're children think otherwise, you raised them wrong IMO.

Seems like Deion's kids are finding that out right now.

The QB kid had estimated earnings at 6.5 million in NIL money. Sorry, don't feel sorry one bit for the kid, although I wouldn't be surprised if he pissed everything away. The other one apparently still has a settlement over his head where he declared bankruptcy so he wouldn't have to pay. This because he never showed up for court.
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You're conflicted
 
TheMarathonContinues said:
Watson will be on IR. I don’t see the point of having Flacco and Pickett. I’d get rid of one of them.
Click to expand...

IMO Browns will try to win, at least an one and done if possible.

Could see them cutting Pickett if he just struggles and the two rooks show some upside. But Flacco somehow found the fountain of partial youth.
 
The truth is, he was never that great to begin with. He's nothing special physically, he takes way too many sacks, and he has a very entitled attitude.

The real scandal is how much the media pumped him up as some amazing player, all because of his daddy.

Next story to drop - - spoiler alert - - is that Deion isn't actually a great coach, either. Other than recruiting off his persona, he's probably not even a very good one.
 
Chocolate Lab said:
The truth is, he was never that great to begin with. He's nothing special physically, he takes way too many sacks, and he has a very entitled attitude.

The real scandal is how much the media pumped him up as some amazing player, all because of his daddy.

Next story to drop - - spoiler alert - - is that Deion isn't actually a great coach, either. Other than recruiting off his persona, he's probably not even a very good one.
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Many keep saying that he should've been drafted sooner, but I have yet to see anyone explain why he should've been drafted sooner. Just some grey area babblings. He has all the signs/skillset of a mid-round prospect. He dropped a round or two from where he should've been taken, sure, but he was never a 1st round prospect to begin w/.
 
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