Why the Cowboys passed on Juan Thornhill and other safeties

[Hawkeye0202]

Understood. I still believe they are playing Woods at FS for the reason I stated. Just watch film on him. What is his best attribute? Pass coverage or monster hits? I say...monster hits, but his body is too small to be a full-time SS and be able to absorb the pounding, hence why they moved him to FS because of his ability to cover somewhat.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just that it appears they've seen enough to give a shot at seeing if he's a long-term answer at FS. BTW.......have you read this thread?

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/woods-nearly-a-top-five-fs-numbers-show.433208/

 

[JBell]

Also McClay saying, "Chancellor like presence" was very telling.

Richard is trying to re-create LOB. Woods is his Earl Thomas. They want a Kam Chancellor at SS.

 

[Einstein]

Are we talking about why they passed in the 2nd round/with our first pick, or overall? I read where I think Stephen said he felt that pressuring the QB made safety's look better, and they felt Hill could pressure the QB to help all safety's on the team.

 

[Stash]

This is what many say, but if our safeties are so crappy, why would there be a mass exodus? Who’s going to overpay these guys and make us let them walk if they really stink. One can’t have it both ways.

Either they are good enough safeties to attract more money than we can pay or they are garbage, which means we can keep them as long as we want for cheap.

Why would you want to "keep garbage"?

 

[MonsterD]

Lets find the next Roy Williams #38

Nevermind the NFL is now a passing league.

 

[Stash]

This might not come off as a surprise to fans who have been following along during the draft process, but this article confirms what many of us suspected: https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article229759614.html

They wanted a true SS type to compliment Xavier Woods, our FS of the future.

Yes, Marinelli was infatuated with Trysten Hill. But even our golden boy Kris Richard signed off on Hill over Thornhill.



They are looking for a specific type of safety to compliment Xavier Woods.

Thornhill is not a SS because playing around the LOS is not one of his strengths. His tackling is suspect at times. I went over Thornhill film a few weeks ago here: https://cowboyszone.com/threads/juan-thornhill-do-not-want.432140/
Adderley and Gardner-Johnson are two other safeties that were available at #58 that also project better as free safeties. Taylor Rapp fits the mold of a SS, but wasn't in the discussion to be picked at #58, possibly due to medical or speed concerns.

Despite Stephen and Garrett's talk of wanting a safety that was "interchangeable", they tipped their hand with the type of safety they were looking for in free agency. Clayton Geathers, Eric Berry, and George Iloka were three free agent safeties they took a look at. All three are strong safety types who have the traditional traits of a SS. Size, physicality, sure tacklers.

Additionally, the Draft Show guys talked about how much the Cowboys loved Mississippi State SS Jonathan Abram, and how he was a potential trade up target. Abram fits the mold of a fast, physical, hard hitting throwback SS. Unfortunately, he went way ahead of #58, which put him out of reach.

The Cowboys did end up drafting a safety, Donovan Wilson, who not surprisingly is a SS type that has the traits discussed above. Although expectations aren't very high for a 6th rounder.

The Cowboys have a type at SS.

I think there's both right and wrong here. Right that they passed on Thornhill for Hill, and that Richard signed off on that. That is well-established and documented from several sources.

But the justification for it is wrong.

The reason they did that was this. Both coaches felt that getting productive play from defensive tackle was more importnat than from safety. Specifically, their reasons was this. A dominant defensive tackle can help a safety do his job better. But a safaety cannot help the defensive tackle to do his job better.

That was the reasoning, not a sudden reversal of interchangeable safeties for traditional strong and free types or an insistence on strong safety.

 

[CyberB0b]

Woods has never shown anything that indicates we need to build around him or not draft a replacement. He's been okay at times, and bad other times, but I've never seen any star potential out of him.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I'm not disagreeing with you, just that it appears they've seen enough to give a shot at seeing if he's a long-term answer at FS. BTW.......have you read this thread?

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/woods-nearly-a-top-five-fs-numbers-show.433208/

I've read snippets here and there in this thread, but I know why they are giving Xavier Woods full duties at FS. I just hope they are right, because I do believe Thornhill could be a better FS right now.

https://***USER-BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1***/scoutingreport2019jthornhill.php

 

[JBell]

I think there's both right and wrong here. Right that they passed on Thornhill for Hill, and that Richard signed off on that. That is well-established and documented from several sources.

But the justification for it is wrong.

The reason they did that was this. Both coaches felt that getting productive play from defensive tackle was more importnat than from safety. Specifically, their reasons was this. A dominant defensive tackle can help a safety do his job better. But a safaety cannot help the defensive tackle to do his job better.

That was the reasoning, not a sudden reversal of interchangeable safeties for traditional strong and free types or an insistence on strong safety.

McClay explicitly stated they were looking for a box safety. Quote on page 2.

 

[Stash]

McClay explicitly stated they were looking for a box safety. Quote on page 2.

And it's also been well-established that their selection was between Hill and Thornhill, the guy you're going to great things to undercut. If he was the "terrible fit" that you're claiming and that was the reason they passed, he wouldn't have been in the conversation in the first place.

They gave their reasoning. It was because both Marinelli and Richard felt DT could be more impactful than safety. That's it. Don't overthink it after that.

 

[WillieBeamen]

Not sure it can be any clearer than this.......lol

Further proof to me Thornhill was not a real option at 58.......

I dont believe he wasnt a real option.

1.They brought in a ton of safeties, both the FS and SS types for visits

2. They had interest in Eric Berry

3. They pursued Earl Thomas more than ive seen them pursue a player in a long time

4. Iloka is more of the FS type

This was all with Xavier Woods on the roster. The interest was real. The front-office once again, is trying to spin their foolish decision.

 

[JBell]

And it's also been well-established that their selection was between Hill and Thornhill, the guy you're going to great things to undercut. If he was the "terrible fit" that you're claiming and that was the reason they passed, he wouldn't have been in the conversation in the first place.

They gave their reasoning. It was because both Marinelli and Richard felt DT could be more impactful than safety. That's it. Don't overthink it after that.

They did. Yes, they came out and stated that they felt DT would be more impactful. But they also felt that Thornhill was more of a FS type.

Doesn't have to be an either or thing. There's a lot of factors that come into play when making draft decisions. McClay elaborated on it.

 

[SoupcanSam]

This might not come off as a surprise to fans who have been following along during the draft process, but this article confirms what many of us suspected: https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article229759614.html

They wanted a true SS type to compliment Xavier Woods, our FS of the future.

Yes, Marinelli was infatuated with Trysten Hill. But even our golden boy Kris Richard signed off on Hill over Thornhill.



They are looking for a specific type of safety to compliment Xavier Woods.

Thornhill is not a SS because playing around the LOS is not one of his strengths. His tackling is suspect at times. I went over Thornhill film a few weeks ago here: https://cowboyszone.com/threads/juan-thornhill-do-not-want.432140/
Adderley and Gardner-Johnson are two other safeties that were available at #58 that also project better as free safeties. Taylor Rapp fits the mold of a SS, but wasn't in the discussion to be picked at #58, possibly due to medical or speed concerns.

Despite Stephen and Garrett's talk of wanting a safety that was "interchangeable", they tipped their hand with the type of safety they were looking for in free agency. Clayton Geathers, Eric Berry, and George Iloka were three free agent safeties they took a look at. All three are strong safety types who have the traditional traits of a SS. Size, physicality, sure tacklers.

Additionally, the Draft Show guys talked about how much the Cowboys loved Mississippi State SS Jonathan Abram, and how he was a potential trade up target. Abram fits the mold of a fast, physical, hard hitting throwback SS. Unfortunately, he went way ahead of #58, which put him out of reach.

The Cowboys did end up drafting a safety, Donovan Wilson, who not surprisingly is a SS type that has the traits discussed above. Although expectations aren't very high for a 6th rounder.

The Cowboys have a type at SS.

Excuses

 

[WillieBeamen]

Excuses

Yep. Another spin-job

Why all the interest in Earl if they only wanted a SS type

 

[JBell]

I dont believe he wasnt a real option.

1.They brought in a ton of safeties, both the FS and SS types for visits

2. They had interest in Eric Berry

3. They pursued Earl Thomas more than ive seen them pursue a player in a long time

4. Iloka is more of the FS type

This was all with Xavier Woods on the roster. The interest was real. The front-office once again, is trying to spin their foolish decision.

1. Geathers and Berry both are SS's. Iloka has played mostly FS but the Cowboys view him as a SS.

2. He's a SS.

3. They had interest, but made it clear they were not going to overspend for him.

4. That's not how this team views him.

 

[Stash]

They did. Yes, they came out and stated that they felt DT would be more impactful. But they also felt that Thornhill was more of a FS type.

Doesn't have to be an either or thing. There's a lot of factors that come into play when making draft decisions. McClay elaborated on it.

Again, Hill and Thornhill were choices 58A and 58B. That's how closely they had them ranked, and that's what it came down to. Defensive tackle being the more impactful position in their minds. Nothing more than that.

 

[Stash]

Yep. Another spin-job

Why all the interest in Earl if they only wanted a SS type

It's most definitely a spin job. Notice McClay's comments came when talking about the guy they eventually took in the sixth round. Of course the story is going to change by that point. Every team wants to appear happy with what they got and justify the reasoning, even if it's terrible.

 

[SoupcanSam]

Yep. Another spin-job

Why all the interest in Earl if they only wanted a SS type

And since when the hell does anybody in the FO care about speed? They've had heath at safety for how long!

I have a hard time believing that Richard was for the hill pick as passionate as he is about the Secondary. He isnt even a guy that would make all of these excuses.

It was all Rod and getting what he wants. I thought rod was on his way out last year. I swear I cant wait.

 

[JBell]

Again, Hill and Thornhill were choices 58A and 58B. That's how closely they had them ranked, and that's what it came down to. Defensive tackle being the more impactful position in their minds. Nothing more than that.

It's silly to continue to argue about this when there are quotes that state otherwise.

 

[Rayman70]

juan Thornhill wont be playing against college QB'S....he WILL be tested. He is a good player BUT Hill can be protected via the rotation and depth we already have at the dline. He has a chance to get better without being put on an island like a safety would. This pick and the reasoning makes sense from that standpoint.