Tampa has released Gerald McCoy

[Stash]

LOL.

Is this a form of the "progress stopper" argument? Please, god, stash tell me you aren't making that argument.

I made my argument. It never included that statement.

 

[Sydla]

Here's your answer:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ve-plays-to-rams-with-obvious-tips-and-tells/

Nobody is winning a chess game where your opponent knows what you're going to do "90% of the time".

That's a different debate, which I agree with you on. That Rams game was coaching failure as much as a player failure.

And I am not looking at McCoy to solve what happened in the Rams game. I am looking at McCoy because he does one thing pretty well even at his age.......... rush the passer. This team, with Lawrence, was still a mediocre pass rushing team. They don't have much of a threat on the interior to rush the passer. That's why they took a guy like Hill. But Hill is a rookie and counting on him to fix a problem almost immediately is risky.

Bring in McCoy, he can work in the rotation at the 3T (and also has played some 1T) and then if Hill is really good, you play the two of them together on pass rush downs with Quinn and Lawrence on the edges and you have a team that can do something previous teams could not.......... terrorize the QB consistently.

I think that's worth what I said I'd be willing to pay above.

 

[Stash]

It's absolutely true. They don't pay starters in free agency. You build a roster using the draft and free agency. They totally neglect the FA side.

Back up McCoy being had for "$6 million" ? Until then, it's not true and a lame hypothetical at that.

 

[Xavier187]

McCoy currently has a 11m dollar contract on the table from an unspecified team.

I would still pay him that. I think it comes down to him being the good character guy that he is.
He is a great locker roo. Guy and for the youngsters he would be a perfect add.

Sorry but the Crawford guys need to get a grip.
HYDER will play DE he thrives there.

So that cuts Crawford alittle shorter there.

 

[Sydla]

I made my argument. It never included that statement.

But it kind of did when you said (paraphrasing), "we won't know about Hill if he's playing behind McCoy".

That's the very definition of the progress stopper argument.

 

[Stash]

That's a different debate, which I agree with you on. That Rams game was coaching failure as much as a player failure.

And I am not looking at McCoy to solve what happened in the Rams game. I am looking at McCoy because he does one thing pretty well even at his age.......... rush the passer. This team, with Lawrence, was still a mediocre pass rushing team. They don't have much of a threat on the interior to rush the passer. That's why they took a guy like Hill. But Hill is a rookie and counting on him to fix a problem almost immediately is risky.

Bring in McCoy, he can work in the rotation at the 3T (and also has played some 1T) and then if Hill is really good, you play the two of them together on pass rush downs with Quinn and Lawrence on the edges and you have a team that can do something previous teams could not.......... terrorize the QB consistently.

I think that's worth what I said I'd be willing to pay above.

I'm not saying McCoy isn't better than what this team has. He certainly is. I'd love to have him.

On a one year deal for $10 million. That's my number, that's my limit. I'm not mortgaging my future to pay a guy I know is on the downside of his career. Some other team can do that, not me. His market is stronger than expected, and his price tag is too. It didn't work out. Oh well, nothing I can do about it. And I'm not about to bash the team for not overpaying.

 

[Stash]

But it kind of did when you said (paraphrasing), "we won't know about Hill if he's playing behind McCoy".

That's the very definition of the progress stopper argument.

So who's your under tackle then? One guy is playing while one guy sits. They used their top draft pick on Hill and now you want to pay $24 million to a guy to play that same position. And spare me the "name game" crap where you line guys up out of position just to see their names in a lineup.

 

[G2]

So who's your under tackle then? One guy is playing while one guy sits. They used their top draft pick on Hill and now you want to pay $24 million to a guy to play that same position. And spare me the "name game" crap where you line guys up out of position just to see their names in a lineup.

Hill is the only DT that is under contract beyond this season of any importance. Who's better?

 

[Stash]

Hill is the only DT that is under contract beyond this season of any importance. Who's better?

And Hill was drafted to be the under tackle , 3-technique, which is the same position that McCoy plays. Now, if you want to talk to me about signing a run-stuffin, 1-technique to line up beside Hill? I'm all ears. But forget the redundancy, much less paying huge money to do it.

 

[Sydla]

So who's your under tackle then? One guy is playing while one guy sits. They used their top draft pick on Hill and now you want to pay $24 million to a guy to play that same position. And spare me the "name game" crap where you line guys up out of position just to see their names in a lineup.

McCoy starts at the 3T, Hill is initially the backup. Hill is a rookie so expecting him to come in and hit the ground running is probably a reach. With McCoy starting, Hill can be brought along slowly to start the year.

The beauty of McCoy is that he can also play some 1T. So there is no "name game" crap here. McCoy has played both the 3T and 1T in Tampa Bay. And FWIW, he voiced in Tampa Bay that he had no issues playing NT or 1T if Bowles wanted to play him there.

So if Hill starts to play really well, you can slide McCoy over to the 1T for some snaps as well. On pass rush situations, if both are the two best pass rushers from inside, they both play in packages.

There's enough snaps to go around.

As I noted earlier in the thread, my two deep would be:

LDE - Lawrence, Charlton
3T - McCoy, Hill
1T - Woods, Collins
RDE - Quinn, Armstrong

You can keep Crawford as a flex guy or June 1 cut him for cap savings. You can bring Covington on the 53 as the 5th DT and then let Jackson and Hyder battle it out for the 5th DE spot.

This would be the deepest and best DL this franchise has seen in years if you bring McCoy in IMO.

 

[Hennessy_King]

McCoy starts at the 3T, Hill is initially the backup. Hill is a rookie so expecting him to come in and hit the ground running is probably a reach. With McCoy starting, Hill can be brought along slowly to start the year.

The beauty of McCoy is that he can also play some 1T. So there is no "name game" crap here. McCoy has played both the 3T and 1T in Tampa Bay.

So if Hill starts to play really well, you can slide McCoy over to the 1T for some snaps as well. On pass rush situations, if both are the two best pass rushers from inside, they both play in packages.

There's enough snaps to go around.

As I noted earlier in the thread, my two deep would be:

LDE - Lawrence, Charlton
3T - McCoy, Hill
1T - Woods, Collins
RDE - Quinn, Armstrong

You can keep Crawford as a flex guy or June 1 cut him for cap savings. You can bring Covington on the 53 as the 5th DT and then let Jackson and Hyder battle it out for the 5th DE spot.

This would be the deepest and best DL this franchise has seen in years if you bring McCoy in IMO.

Is it alarming that my pants are now a little tighter after reading this?

 

[Sydla]

Is it alarming that my pants are now a little tighter after reading this?

LOL.

McCoy is also insurance in case Hill struggles to get his feet under him, which frankly, wouldn't be a crazy thing for a rookie. Collins did well as a rookie but other guys we have had like Lawrence and Crawford had their scuffles as rookies (and injuries too, which is a factor I haven't even mentioned).

 

[Hennessy_King]

LOL.

McCoy is also insurance in case Hill struggles to get his feet under him, which frankly, wouldn't be a crazy thing for a rookie. Collins did well as a rookie but other guys we have had like Lawrence and Crawford had their scuffles as rookies (and injuries too, which is a factor I haven't even mentioned).

Like I said I gave up. I really can't believe we have to sell ppl on paying Gerald McCoy.

 

[G2]

And Hill was drafted to be the under tackle , 3-technique, which is the same position that McCoy plays. Now, if you want to talk to me about signing a run-stuffin, 1-technique to line up beside Hill? I'm all ears. But forget the redundancy, much less paying huge money to do it.

You're still assuming Hill is somehow the automatic starter. Based on what? Insurance is something we haven't had a whole lot of on the DL.
There are guys who had surgery we're not sure about.
There's the Crawford situation.

Also, I wouldn't be all in on the idea that Hill is specifically in the 3 technique position. There are a lot of uncertainties. I don't want to go another year of "hope" only to be forced to fill positions with useless jags.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

You crazy. cut hurns and ty craw and the money is right there. I would take mccoy over those 2 any day of the week.

LLLOOOLLL, sometimes quality is better than quanity.

 

[G2]

As it stands right now, in week 1 this coming season who are your DT's?

 

[kumizi]

Don't even go there rookie

Oh look Suh signed for $9 million instead of the $13 million they owed McCoy.

And Hill was drafted to be the under tackle , 3-technique, which is the same position that McCoy plays. Now, if you want to talk to me about signing a run-stuffin, 1-technique to line up beside Hill? I'm all ears. But forget the redundancy, much less paying huge money to do it.

lol at counting on a 2nd round reach to be an immediate impact player

 

[Sydla]

As it stands right now, in week 1 this coming season who are your DT's?

Collins, Hill as the 3Ts.

Woods, Covington as the 1Ts most likely. Maybe Ross beats out Covington.

Crawford is the flex guy. They try to stash a guy or two like Wise on the PS.

 

[CCBoy]

Hill is the only DT that is under contract beyond this season of any importance. Who's better?

...tune in during Training Camp and Exhibition Games.

 

[G2]

Collins, Hill as the 3Ts.

Woods, Covington as the 1Ts most likely. Maybe Ross beats out Covington.

Crawford is the flex guy. They try to stash a guy or two like Wise on the PS.

If Hill was a top 10 pick, I'd be more confident he could come right in on all downs, start and be productive. But there's a reason he was drafted in the 2nd, and he's going to need to work up to that. Of course there's exceptions to every rule, but I'm going with the odds. Perfect reason to bring in McCoy. This way Hill isn't getting beat up playing all the run downs etc....Let him develop.