Over-valuing star ex-players ability to coach in the NFL

Bobhaze said:

Again, I did not say no former players are good coaches. Not my point. My points were:

• Most former NFL players who are/were successful as NFL coaches were never stars.
• The number of NFL head coaches who played in the NFL have decreased dramatically in the last 30 years.
• The degree of difficulty in being a successful NFL coach is much greater than most fans understand.

You don’t have to agree with any of my points. I just wanted make clear what I was saying.

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I think many star players just do not want to go into it not because they are incapable or somehow do not understand the game but understand what goes into coaching as a reason of avoiding it, I would also say that are more failures in coaching than those who are successful, for every coach be it former players or not

Interesting dialogue, Bob, regarding former players ascending to HC or GM. Most understand and acknowledge there are fundamental differences and skills between a great player and a great coach.

There are parallels in corporate America. Sure, there are those CEO's and COO's that navigate the ranks from individual contributor to supervisor to manager. More often than not, though, senior managers are groomed and nurtured throughout their careers; they are deliberately moved from job to job to broaden their experience, rather than necessarily become an 'expert' in any particular job.

In my own experience, I would much rather work for someone that was a good organizer, motivator, planner, leader, than someone that is an expert in my field.

Players are too focused on the art of the play while coaches have to be about the science.

Players are mostly "I don't know how I do it, I just do it" and coaches are more "I can't do it but I can teach it".

Coaches used to have that Marine drill instructor image which really wasn't factual, football players aren't grunts.

I would laugh when I'd see someone posting that an ex player like Irvin should be coaching, what's he gonna do, yell at them, cut their hair if they make a mistake?

Bobhaze said:

We see it all the time. Calls for star ex-players like Tony Romo, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware and others to be immediately anointed a high level coaching position like a coordinator or even head coach is a really bad idea. It has happened occasionally in sports like basketball and baseball, but even in those sports it is rare. It is very rare in football.

Why? The reasons are many, starting with a fundamental lack of understanding of how difficult it is to be an effective head coach or coordinator in the NFL:

• The number of head coaches with NFL playing experience has decreased dramatically in the past 30 years. Even the few successful head coaches who have won big, almost all were never NFL stars. Examples-
  • Tom Landry, Tom Flores, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, and Doug Pederson are all examples of coaches who won SBs after playing in the NFL but none of them were stars. Mike Ditka is a rare example of a HOF player who won a SB as a HC.
  • Only 9 head coaches in the NFL in 2020 ever played a down in the NFL.
  • Many NFL players say star players are usually not as good as coaches because their talent and effectiveness came easier to them than most players and it’s hard for them to teach. Bob Lily once said he knew he could never be a coach. Coaching and playing are totally different skill sets.
• The degree of difficulty in being an NFL head coach or coordinator are much greater than most fans understand. Being a coordinator requires a ton of organizational skills to coordinate film study and game preparation plans with a number of people each week. In fact, those skills for success are much different than success as a player.

The point I’m making is the calls for a former star player to immediately skip the process of coaching experience and become a coordinator or head coach are foolish. It’s pretty clear that in the history of NFL coaching, being a star player is not an indicator of coaching ability or success.

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This is a good post, and a good point to get across.

I can't say how many times I've seen the Cowboys interview or hire a coach that played in the NFL and fans would criticism him saying "he wasn't even a good player, so how can he be a good coach?". My response is always to ask them to look around and show me all the great players that became great coaches, and to notice that many outstanding coaches either were not great pro players, or were never a pro player at all. Many weren't even notable college players

I do have one very firm opinion about head coaches, the D coaches make better HC's because they're more attentive to detail and much more responsive to when it doesn't work. In fact, they have to plan for that more than the O coaches.

Whoever the Cowboys hire, it's going to take some time for him to have a noticeable positive effect because this is not a talented defense. He has to first figure out how to overcome the bad and the ugly before he can maximize the good.

I don't think any DC likes the BDBD but sometimes he's got to do the least damage. It's like the medical oath "first, do no harm".

I know Marinelli caught the heat here but I think he was doing what he felt he had to do to protect the team. He did have some HC experience and that allowed for a better view of the big picture for the entire team. Rob Ryan was to hell with the team, this is what I do.

McC has already made a horrible strategic mistake in hiring Nolan, Do we think the players didn.t know his credentials and resume? "Hey guys, we're getting a DC that wasn't even good enough to be that in his last two stops". They should learn from that, bring in a DC with some credentials but if they can't do that, don't bring one in with a resume like Nolan's.

That was the magic of bringing Parcells in and why he was able to turn a 5-11 into a 10-6 in one season, credentials. They listened to him because they knew others had listened and prospered.

OmerV said:

This is a good post, and a good point to get across.

I can't say how many times I've seen the Cowboys interview or hire a coach that played in the NFL and fans would criticism him saying "he wasn't even a good player, so how can he be a good coach?". My response is always to ask them to look around and show me all the great players that became great coaches, and to notice that many outstanding coaches either were not great pro players, or were never a pro player at all. Many weren't even notable college players

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There are great players at the college and pro level that do not fully understand the game they play.

In fact, the more naturally talented player a guy was the less interest I would have, he can't teach that. When talent is in short supply, technique becomes far more important.

There was a discussion about Ware coaching. His ability to get that big frame parallel to the ground and make that corner so fast, how's he going to teach that? I've never seen any DE/OLB do that like he could do it.

CouchCoach said:

There are great players at the college and pro level that do not fully understand the game they play.

In fact, the more naturally talented player a guy was the less interest I would have, he can't teach that. When talent is in short supply, technique becomes far more important.

There was a discussion about Ware coaching. His ability to get that big frame parallel to the ground and make that corner so fast, how's he going to teach that? I've never seen any DE/OLB do that like he could do it.

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Exactly. Those with less physical talent often have to rely on being students of the game, and passion for the game, for their chance to play, and that translates to coaching much more than a player who succeeds largely on being stronger and faster than others.

Bobhaze said:

I mentioned Ditka in the OP as a rare exception of a HOF player who coached a SB winner. Reeves was a great coach that took two different teams to SBs but although he played in the NFL, he was never a star.

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Reeves scored 16 touchdowns in 1966.

Typhus said:

I will always believe that Mark Step would have been a great OL Coach,, but thats just me

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I agree with you. However, I think there is a world of difference between the HC or even the Top Coordinator (OC / DC) and a position coach.

cern said:

You have to be able to communicate the message.

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Most certainly, you have to be able to communicate not only effectively but adaptively. With the coordinator having been an NFL defensive player, for example, it likely gives him that field cred, and a realistic perspective how to optimize the scheme and effectively input on additional or replacement player acquisitions.

Bobhaze said:

Being a GM may be different. Bal GM Ozzie Newsome (one of the best in the business) SF GM John Lynch, and former Den GM John Elway are examples of Star players who have been great GMs. I think being a GM is much different than coaching. And I think Aikman would make a good GM for what it’s worth.

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Elway has NOT been a great GM, in fact, he's been the opposite. Definitely no correlation between being a former NFL player and being a good GM or coach.