Zeke, OL, and Moore Philosophy

Gorgon

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Many of you have touched on this in different angles but let's look at the Zeke situation this way.

2016, with the great OL of Frederick, Martin, Smith, Leary, Zeke rushed for 1600 yards.
2017 We lost Leary, replaced badly by Cooper, but added Collins at G and sometimes T. Zeke's #s fell accordingly, to 900.
2018 Frederick diagnosed with his nervous disease
2019 Zeke resigned for $90m
2020 Frederick retires.

You can condemn Jerrah all you want but there WAS a philosophy here. I think Dallas gambled and lost. They expected Frederick to be there, and, once diagnosed, thought he'd come back (which he did). They viewed this as a rushing team first, but they had to plug at least one big hole of LG---and assume Collins could hold up at RT. So far, they have not succeeded. But then Frederick was gone for good, and, as we know, Smith has had health problems.

In other words, I think a major factor in Zeke's big contract was the presumption they would have, more or less, the same OL as in 2016 and slowly, it disintegrated as a run line.

In the meantime, Moore comes in. It was abundantly clear in the loss that his scheme was NOT a bad one---from a certain perspective, that is: take exactly what the D gives you over, and over, and over. This is very "Madden-esque" except Madden would periodically heave the ball way downfield just to keep the other side honest.

Meanwhile, Zeke does nothing but block. Why? Six or seven men in the box PLUS two of the most difficult DTs in the league to run against (Donald maybe the other). Moore's philosophy in this case looked sound: you can't run, why not throw to the open guy & force them out of their scheme?

Here is my caution about the pass offense---which believe me I know is in vogue today. When we were a "running team" Dak was getting massive time on play fakes. I don't know if you recall, but he would have a LOT of time in the pocket when Zeke was a threat.

Back to the OL, despite being (so far) a terrible run blocking OL, they did pretty well in pass protection. No, the pocket wasn't as clean as I'd like, and too many times Dak threw with people in his fact, but given that he threw on almost every play, that's understandable.

Long and short: Zeke has no role in this offense as Moore apparently has designed it. Worse, the OL can no longer run block the way the 2016 line could. The personnel is not fitting the scheme.
 

jazzcat22

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Or the simple fact that too many injuries has caused less continuity, and they just can't get it back yet.

And part of why Zeke had 900 yards in 2017, the corrupt NFL office suspended him for 6 games for no reason at all.

Zeke has a role, MM needs to rein in Moore and get back to the ground and pound.
I know what Moore wants to do, pass 1st, get a lead, then try to establish the run game to use clock. They still need to establish a run game early IMO.
 

blueblood70

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Many of you have touched on this in different angles but let's look at the Zeke situation this way.

2016, with the great OL of Frederick, Martin, Smith, Leary, Zeke rushed for 1600 yards.
2017 We lost Leary, replaced badly by Cooper, but added Collins at G and sometimes T. Zeke's #s fell accordingly, to 900.
2018 Frederick diagnosed with his nervous disease
2019 Zeke resigned for $90m
2020 Frederick retires.

You can condemn Jerrah all you want but there WAS a philosophy here. I think Dallas gambled and lost. They expected Frederick to be there, and, once diagnosed, thought he'd come back (which he did). They viewed this as a rushing team first, but they had to plug at least one big hole of LG---and assume Collins could hold up at RT. So far, they have not succeeded. But then Frederick was gone for good, and, as we know, Smith has had health problems.

In other words, I think a major factor in Zeke's big contract was the presumption they would have, more or less, the same OL as in 2016 and slowly, it disintegrated as a run line.

In the meantime, Moore comes in. It was abundantly clear in the loss that his scheme was NOT a bad one---from a certain perspective, that is: take exactly what the D gives you over, and over, and over. This is very "Madden-esque" except Madden would periodically heave the ball way downfield just to keep the other side honest.

Meanwhile, Zeke does nothing but block. Why? Six or seven men in the box PLUS two of the most difficult DTs in the league to run against (Donald maybe the other). Moore's philosophy in this case looked sound: you can't run, why not throw to the open guy & force them out of their scheme?

Here is my caution about the pass offense---which believe me I know is in vogue today. When we were a "running team" Dak was getting massive time on play fakes. I don't know if you recall, but he would have a LOT of time in the pocket when Zeke was a threat.

Back to the OL, despite being (so far) a terrible run blocking OL, they did pretty well in pass protection. No, the pocket wasn't as clean as I'd like, and too many times Dak threw with people in his fact, but given that he threw on almost every play, that's understandable.

Long and short: Zeke has no role in this offense as Moore apparently has designed it. Worse, the OL can no longer run block the way the 2016 line could. The personnel is not fitting the scheme.

first off 2017 zeke missed 6 games dud to suspension his game didn't fall off he led the league at nearly 100 yards game for those 10 games he played..2018 rushing title, 2019 was still very productive that year.

zekes issues are OC philosophy and a bad OL in 2020 no qb in 2020 no defense in 2020..

first game on the road against best Run defense in the NFL and the gp was to throw and throw and throw...zeke did his job blocking and being the decoy..the tb defense was still playing the run even when we passed and dared Dak to beat them.it nearly did..

martin a was missing but even with martin the run game wasn't going to be much better..seriously stop the zeke trolling..

yesterday lets go check teh other Rbs numbers..i saw Najee harris have what 2.8 YPC the great RB the next super back..did zeke have game like that as rookie not sure he finished at over 5ypc i doubt it..

there are more reasons for zekes issue then zeke himself..

its the OC and the OL..he will eb fine this year..lets playout the year before we start passing judgements..
 

blueblood70

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Or the simple fact that too many injuries has caused less continuity, and they just can't get it back yet.

And part of why Zeke had 900 yards in 2017, the corrupt NFL office suspended him for 6 games for no reason at all.

Zeke has a role, MM needs to rein in Moore and get back to the ground and pound.
I know what Moore wants to do, pass 1st, get a lead, then try to establish the run game to use clock. They still need to establish a run game early IMO.
like how he glossed over 2017 a s if that was 16 games? lmao oinly trolls do that, zeke in fact led the league in YPG in 2017 so still great zeke 2016-2018 zeke was the best back in the league and got his deal 2019 first year OC KM started the pass happy transition 2020 full of injuries'..TB best run defense missing martin.

its easy for real fan top see what the issue is and its not zeke..
 

Cmac

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like how he glossed over 2017 a s if that was 16 games? lmao oinly trolls do that, zeke in fact led the league in YPG in 2017 so still great zeke 2016-2018 zeke was the best back in the league and got his deal 2019 first year OC KM started the pass happy transition 2020 full of injuries'..TB best run defense missing martin.

its easy for real fan top see what the issue is and its not zeke..
You're not going to convince on this Board.....we have Salaryologists.
 

75boyz

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Many of you have touched on this in different angles but let's look at the Zeke situation this way.

2016, with the great OL of Frederick, Martin, Smith, Leary, Zeke rushed for 1600 yards.
2017 We lost Leary, replaced badly by Cooper, but added Collins at G and sometimes T. Zeke's #s fell accordingly, to 900.
2018 Frederick diagnosed with his nervous disease
2019 Zeke resigned for $90m
2020 Frederick retires.

You can condemn Jerrah all you want but there WAS a philosophy here. I think Dallas gambled and lost. They expected Frederick to be there, and, once diagnosed, thought he'd come back (which he did). They viewed this as a rushing team first, but they had to plug at least one big hole of LG---and assume Collins could hold up at RT. So far, they have not succeeded. But then Frederick was gone for good, and, as we know, Smith has had health problems.

In other words, I think a major factor in Zeke's big contract was the presumption they would have, more or less, the same OL as in 2016 and slowly, it disintegrated as a run line.

In the meantime, Moore comes in. It was abundantly clear in the loss that his scheme was NOT a bad one---from a certain perspective, that is: take exactly what the D gives you over, and over, and over. This is very "Madden-esque" except Madden would periodically heave the ball way downfield just to keep the other side honest.

Meanwhile, Zeke does nothing but block. Why? Six or seven men in the box PLUS two of the most difficult DTs in the league to run against (Donald maybe the other). Moore's philosophy in this case looked sound: you can't run, why not throw to the open guy & force them out of their scheme?

Here is my caution about the pass offense---which believe me I know is in vogue today. When we were a "running team" Dak was getting massive time on play fakes. I don't know if you recall, but he would have a LOT of time in the pocket when Zeke was a threat.

Back to the OL, despite being (so far) a terrible run blocking OL, they did pretty well in pass protection. No, the pocket wasn't as clean as I'd like, and too many times Dak threw with people in his fact, but given that he threw on almost every play, that's understandable.

Long and short: Zeke has no role in this offense as Moore apparently has designed it. Worse, the OL can no longer run block the way the 2016 line could. The personnel is not fitting the scheme.

Nice post.
Although Moore's/McCarthy's resumes do not suggest philosophies of sound running game strategies, I at least hoped that Zeke could be an effective 12-18 carry guy integrated into this pass happy version of offense they've evolved into.

I don't have confidence in them to find the kind of balance needed for this offense to become a truly pick your poison dilemma for defenses that I believe they have the potential of being.

jmo
 

blueblood70

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You're not going to convince on this Board.....we have Salaryologists.
i do agree with Gorgon in the fact that most of zekes issues are switch in philosophy and hes being designed out of the offense and hows that his fault he got paid and then KM was allowed to starts "Phasing him out"

I guarantee zeke with the browns, titans, ravens etc a team that values run game even when they pass a lot He would be very closes to old zeke, not 2016 i mean that was just awesome season for the team but 2018 zeke sure..his demise is overblown as his paycheck doesn't FIT STATOlogists..all they see is his salary and production without acknowledging the REAL deeper issues
 

blueblood70

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Or the simple fact that too many injuries has caused less continuity, and they just can't get it back yet.



Zeke has a role, MM needs to rein in Moore and get back to the ground and pound.
I know what Moore wants to do, pass 1st, get a lead, then try to establish the run game to use clock. They still need to establish a run game early IMO.

I dont fully agree we dont need a ground and pound we can find close proximity to run and shoot..zekes a weapons' even as decoy you can tell from most plays Thursday TB 100% keyed zeke ALL game even when Dak was hot they said no way we are lettings zeke run and that TB philosophy..

we need more balance i dont mind passing a lot as long as its not 90/10 lol need 60-40 or heck 70-30
we have 16 more to really judge this season TB not good barometer if the run game

we nearly Hung 34 on the bucs defense on the road hard to blames moores game plan..just over the full season i want to see more balance..
 

jazzcat22

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Also keep this in mind. This team has not fielded a game in the past 23 with all 3 of their top OL.
Now without Collins for 5 games, that will extend to 28 games.
 

blueblood70

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Also keep this in mind. This team has not fielded a game in the past 23 with all 3 of their top OL.
Now without Collins for 5 games, that will extend to 28 games.
hope that appeal goes our way and hes not gone for 5 games..I feel we are due a RG NFL Office gift after zekes failed appeal..i believe reading the entire story i believe the appeal with lift the suspension or at least reduce it..we cant buy break or jerry would LOL
 

MichiganCowboyFan

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Our best player is one Rayne Dakota Prescott and Moore, McBurgers and Jerry better not forget it. The season rides on his arm and the improvement of our defense. Run game should be like run game in Green Bay during McBurgers' time there... complementary, not primary.
 

Doomsday101

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Or the simple fact that too many injuries has caused less continuity, and they just can't get it back yet.

And part of why Zeke had 900 yards in 2017, the corrupt NFL office suspended him for 6 games for no reason at all.

Zeke has a role, MM needs to rein in Moore and get back to the ground and pound.
I know what Moore wants to do, pass 1st, get a lead, then try to establish the run game to use clock. They still need to establish a run game early IMO.

Moore just needs to game plan the team we are facing. Trying to pound the ball vs a top run defense in the league and without our best OL player would not have been a good ideal unless you are looking to fall behind. I don't expect this coming game plan to be the same as we did vs Tampa. I want Moore like any OC to look at who we are playing and look to attack their weakness not play into their strength.
 

INCowboysFan

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Many of you have touched on this in different angles but let's look at the Zeke situation this way.

2016, with the great OL of Frederick, Martin, Smith, Leary, Zeke rushed for 1600 yards.
2017 We lost Leary, replaced badly by Cooper, but added Collins at G and sometimes T. Zeke's #s fell accordingly, to 900.
2018 Frederick diagnosed with his nervous disease
2019 Zeke resigned for $90m
2020 Frederick retires.

You can condemn Jerrah all you want but there WAS a philosophy here. I think Dallas gambled and lost. They expected Frederick to be there, and, once diagnosed, thought he'd come back (which he did). They viewed this as a rushing team first, but they had to plug at least one big hole of LG---and assume Collins could hold up at RT. So far, they have not succeeded. But then Frederick was gone for good, and, as we know, Smith has had health problems.

In other words, I think a major factor in Zeke's big contract was the presumption they would have, more or less, the same OL as in 2016 and slowly, it disintegrated as a run line.

In the meantime, Moore comes in. It was abundantly clear in the loss that his scheme was NOT a bad one---from a certain perspective, that is: take exactly what the D gives you over, and over, and over. This is very "Madden-esque" except Madden would periodically heave the ball way downfield just to keep the other side honest.

Meanwhile, Zeke does nothing but block. Why? Six or seven men in the box PLUS two of the most difficult DTs in the league to run against (Donald maybe the other). Moore's philosophy in this case looked sound: you can't run, why not throw to the open guy & force them out of their scheme?

Here is my caution about the pass offense---which believe me I know is in vogue today. When we were a "running team" Dak was getting massive time on play fakes. I don't know if you recall, but he would have a LOT of time in the pocket when Zeke was a threat.

Back to the OL, despite being (so far) a terrible run blocking OL, they did pretty well in pass protection. No, the pocket wasn't as clean as I'd like, and too many times Dak threw with people in his fact, but given that he threw on almost every play, that's understandable.

Long and short: Zeke has no role in this offense as Moore apparently has designed it. Worse, the OL can no longer run block the way the 2016 line could. The personnel is not fitting the scheme.
Zeke's numbers fell to 900 yds because of the 6 game suspension, not because of the OL.
 

Creeper

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Many of you have touched on this in different angles but let's look at the Zeke situation this way.

2016, with the great OL of Frederick, Martin, Smith, Leary, Zeke rushed for 1600 yards.
2017 We lost Leary, replaced badly by Cooper, but added Collins at G and sometimes T. Zeke's #s fell accordingly, to 900.
2018 Frederick diagnosed with his nervous disease
2019 Zeke resigned for $90m
2020 Frederick retires.

You can condemn Jerrah all you want but there WAS a philosophy here. I think Dallas gambled and lost. They expected Frederick to be there, and, once diagnosed, thought he'd come back (which he did). They viewed this as a rushing team first, but they had to plug at least one big hole of LG---and assume Collins could hold up at RT. So far, they have not succeeded. But then Frederick was gone for good, and, as we know, Smith has had health problems.

In other words, I think a major factor in Zeke's big contract was the presumption they would have, more or less, the same OL as in 2016 and slowly, it disintegrated as a run line.

In the meantime, Moore comes in. It was abundantly clear in the loss that his scheme was NOT a bad one---from a certain perspective, that is: take exactly what the D gives you over, and over, and over. This is very "Madden-esque" except Madden would periodically heave the ball way downfield just to keep the other side honest.

Meanwhile, Zeke does nothing but block. Why? Six or seven men in the box PLUS two of the most difficult DTs in the league to run against (Donald maybe the other). Moore's philosophy in this case looked sound: you can't run, why not throw to the open guy & force them out of their scheme?

Here is my caution about the pass offense---which believe me I know is in vogue today. When we were a "running team" Dak was getting massive time on play fakes. I don't know if you recall, but he would have a LOT of time in the pocket when Zeke was a threat.

Back to the OL, despite being (so far) a terrible run blocking OL, they did pretty well in pass protection. No, the pocket wasn't as clean as I'd like, and too many times Dak threw with people in his fact, but given that he threw on almost every play, that's understandable.

Long and short: Zeke has no role in this offense as Moore apparently has designed it. Worse, the OL can no longer run block the way the 2016 line could. The personnel is not fitting the scheme.

I watched a bunch of games yesterday even though I promised myself I wouldn't. What I saw was this last point. The Cowboys offensive line does not run block very well - for several reasons.

First, Connor Williams and Biadasz do not appear strong enough to move guys. They can get in front of a guy and wall him off okay and pass protect most of the time, but moving big tackles out of the holes is another story. Of course missing Zach Martin hurts.

Then, Tyron Smith is nowhere near as mobile as he once was and he is a poor blocker on the move. Watching the Eagles Mialata come across the field and bury the safety on the run made me realize Tyron is simply incapable of making such a block anymore. The Cowboys offensive line seems like it is built to pass protect.
 

Gorgon

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Or the simple fact that too many injuries has caused less continuity, and they just can't get it back yet.

And part of why Zeke had 900 yards in 2017, the corrupt NFL office suspended him for 6 games for no reason at all.

Zeke has a role, MM needs to rein in Moore and get back to the ground and pound.
I know what Moore wants to do, pass 1st, get a lead, then try to establish the run game to use clock. They still need to establish a run game early IMO.


Remember the Jimmy Johnson teams---esp against the good teams---always passed early to get the guys out of the box to make room for Emmitt. I remember some playoff games where early on Emmitt did nothing.
But by the 3rd quarter he was running wild.
 

Whirlwin

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like how he glossed over 2017 a s if that was 16 games? lmao oinly trolls do that, zeke in fact led the league in YPG in 2017 so still great zeke 2016-2018 zeke was the best back in the league and got his deal 2019 first year OC KM started the pass happy transition 2020 full of injuries'..TB best run defense missing martin.

its easy for real fan top see what the issue is and its not zeke..
I thought he had a great game against Tampa. His blocking was superb . He looks like the young Elliot. I think he’s going to have a great season when we use him
 

JoeKing

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I'd love to see KM set Zeke free on Sunday and see a 150 yard rushing day. I know it wouldn't shut you haters up but it should.
 

Doomsday101

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Fully expect to see Zeke and Pollard take on a bigger role in the run game this coming game. Throwing as much as they did vs Tampa opens the door for Bosa to have a big game. I find it interesting that people can watch 1 game and make an overall determination of the entire season and the team.
 

RonnieT24

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Here are Zeke's runs from the game last weekL

First drive .. 4, 2, 4.. Two solid runs with a wonderful effort to convert on 3rd and 1 when the blocking was pretty bad.
Second drive .. no runs.
Third drive Pollard in he gets 1 run for 0 yards
Fourth Drive after the fumble forced by Lawrence .. Elliott back in one run for 2 yards.
Fifth drive after INT .. no runs
Sixth drive hurry up.. no runs.

So Zeke got one carry after the opening drive where he had 10 yards on 3 carries. Not lighting it up but enough to keep the defense honest. We didn't give up on the run because it was going backwards.. We gave up on the run because we predetermined before the game that we couldn't.

Second half.

First drive .. one carry for 0 yards, then the infamous option pitch for -1.
Second drive 13, 0 , 4. .. three carries 17 yards.. again.. production
Third drive 0 runs
Fourth drive 1, 4
Fifth drive .. end of game.

So Zeke had 4 carries for 12 yards in the first half then 7 carries for 21 in the second .. He really never had any opportunity to establish any sort of rhythm running the ball.. or catching it or that matter. We know against a stout defense sometimes the dam doesn't break until you've pounded them for 60 minutes. We never allowed ourselves a chance for that to happen. Late in the game when the Bucs defenders were sucking wind, cramping and going in and out of the game we did not take advantage of it by pounding the rock like we should have. Especially on our last drive instead of throwing it after the 2 minute warning it was the PERFECT time to pound the rock. It also probably would have avoided the stupid holding penalty AND eaten up more time and/or TB's timeouts. Remember the penalty where they had to take a timeout to avoid the 10 second runoff? A couple of nice runs at the 1:51 mark instead of the incomplete pass stopping the clock. Zeke gets 4 on the next run.. had we done that on first down we'd have eaten up either another 40 seconds or Tampa's last time out. Run it again on second down and you're under a minute for the third down play.. Run it again.. then kick the FG with maybe 30 seconds left on the flock and Tampa with no timeouts. That last drive was poorly managed... by Dak, by Moore and ultimately by McCarthy. That can't happen again..
 
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