NFL and NFLPA joint agreement on pain management, potentially including marijuana

Birdgang · May 25, 2019

Haimerej said:
Opioids, "just mask the pain"? Does that mean they're not good medicine?

that's a loaded question . Painkillers do just mask pain and dont do anything to fix the cause of it. But at the same time it can allow people in constant pain a chance to get a semi-normal life. Good Medicine? Yes and no, It all comes down to being responsible and having a good doctor.

Haimerej · May 25, 2019

Doc50 said:
Your point about limited access to research Sched I
substances is simply untrue, for the reasons I indicated in the previous post.

Why did the AMA put forth a resolution stating, "Our AMA urges that marijuana's status as a federal schedule I controlled substance be reviewed with the goal of facilitating the conduct of clinical research and development of cannabinoid-based medicines, and alternate delivery methods."?

They go on to request a new schedule classification in order, "to facilitate grant applications and the conduct of well-designed clinical research involving cannabis and its potential medical utility."

Granted, that was 2016, but it seems the schedule classification hindered research opportunities.

Haimerej · May 25, 2019

Birdgang said:
that's a loaded question . Painkillers do just mask pain and dont do anything to fix the cause of it. But at the same time it can allow people in constant pain a chance to get a semi-normal life. Good Medicine? Yes and no, It all comes down to being responsible and having a good doctor.

I was speaking to his point that masking pain meant it wasn't good medicine. Pain management is valid. No argument from me about that.

Birdgang · May 25, 2019

Doc50 said:
Your argument is counterintuitive.
The more useful a product is, the more valuable it is.

I've been in clinical research for over 20 years, and I can testify that the scientific process is a fine method for determining efficacy and safety. If it's corruptible by inevitable greed, the tremendous level of liability serves as a deterrent.

That's awesome but i wish it was not so. The answers teeter on a banned subject so I'll stop right there. But trust me the things that get done behind the scene would make you sick. All over people greed ... There have been some life-changing things blocked and hidden over money.. Helll the MJ would be a non-subject if Medical care was not for profit.

Birdgang · May 25, 2019

Haimerej said:
I was speaking to his point that masking pain meant it wasn't good medicine. Pain management is valid. No argument from me about that.

I figured Id give the correct answer before someone came along with bais based instead of facts

HoplessCowboysFan36 · May 25, 2019

Oz-of-Cowboy-Country said:
The David Irvin effect?

Medicinal marijuana by prescription is better than opioids anyway.

Dont care for either much, but cant disagree with that!!

Melonfeud · May 25, 2019

Melonfeud said:
Dude, there's an article up over at
Ancient Origins that's saying they've traced back to the first known area of the green reefer up on the plateau's of Tibet,,,18,000 years ago.

I'd just re-checked the veracity of my prior presentation of what was proclaimed,,, er,,,unfortunately, my fallible fortitude formed a fictitious fact, as the article actually claims a time span of 28,000,000 years.

*I recalled several zeros & an number eight in that article,,, er,,,as I'd skimmed over that article a couple days back and was pretty smashed at the time

Doc50 · May 25, 2019

Birdgang said:
That's awesome but i wish it was not so. The answers teeter on a banned subject so I'll stop right there. But trust me the things that get done behind the scene would make you sick. All over people greed ... There have been some life-changing things blocked and hidden over money.. Helll the MJ would be a non-subject if Medical care was not for profit.

Your conspiracy theories are unfounded.

Trust me.

Doc50 · May 25, 2019

Haimerej said:
Why did the AMA put forth a resolution stating, "Our AMA urges that marijuana's status as a federal schedule I controlled substance be reviewed with the goal of facilitating the conduct of clinical research and development of cannabinoid-based medicines, and alternate delivery methods."?

They go on to request a new schedule classification in order, "to facilitate grant applications and the conduct of well-designed clinical research involving cannabis and its potential medical utility."

Granted, that was 2016, but it seems the schedule classification hindered research opportunities.

The AMA is merely a doctors society that has no legislative or prescriptive power whatsoever. As an example of how toothless and out of touch they are, I don't belong to them.

No doctor can get access to experimental substances unless they have a clinical trial plan that is approved by the FDA. If they got easier access, then we would have rogue entities with the possibility of poor control of controlled substances, which is in felony territory.

Birdgang · May 25, 2019

Doc50 said:
Your conspiracy theories are unfounded.

Trust me.

They really are not , Ive seen a lot of things first hand in my 20 years of government work. Thats all I say about it , don't put blinders on

Melonfeud · May 26, 2019

Birdgang said:
They really are not , Ive seen a lot of things first hand in my 20 years of government work. Thats all I say about it , don't put blinders on

Dude! Yer' on the wrong end of the pry bar in this angled conversation of yer'efforts in trying to shoehorn the Doc 5-0 into yer' narrow viewport,,,just saying

Hoofbite · May 27, 2019

Nightman said:
that is a bunch of nonsense......of course more people are dying while driving stoned.....of course they are

To say otherwise is ludicrous

And to bring up alcohol is a false comparison..... it is also bad.....you figured it out.... no one is recommending that these guys self medicate with alcohol either or opioids.

The likelihood of more people dying while driving under the influence of marijuana was not the argument that was made. It might look that way because the poster I was replying to chose a very poor measure of "mortality", but that was not the claim. You're jumping right into the middle of a discussion about whether or not marijuana use is more harmful than alcohol use (hint: it is not).

FWIW, it was the poster I was replying to who made the comparison to alcohol:

America's Cowboy said:
There is no intention here to minimize the dangers of alcohol abuse, which can be equally harmful.

And to that, I replied:

Hoofbite said:
Comparing alcohol to weed in a, "which can be equally harmful", context is minimizing the dangers of alcohol regardless of whether or not it is intended. There is no question that alcohol is more harmful.

He wanted proof, and I suggested mortality. He provided data about car accidents, which is just a horrible choice for a number of reasons. Most obvious, of course, is that the vast majority of people who die from alcohol use don't die as a result of being in a car accident while drunk.

I never made the claim that there wasn't a greater number of people who die while driving stoned. I would be inclined to believe that legalization has increased the number of people who are driving while under the influence of marijuana, and consequently: I would expect an increase in marijuana-related accidents and deaths. That was not the argument being made but even if it was, it would still be a poor argument.

The argument being made appeared to be that alcohol doesn't kill more people than marijuana, and that is entirely false. Alcohol most certainly does kill more people than marijuana, but the vast majority of the time it's due to circumstances other than driving while under the influence.

Now that you are up to speed, I'd be more than happy to address whatever it is you want to discuss.

Nightman said:
All you are doing is excusing marijuana use to get high by trying to make it something it isn't... the advocates have made an effective argument to fool the public but it is still just a drug that gets you high... it may be legal now just like your evil alcohol but that doesn't make it good medicine .... it just masks the pain

I'm not excusing anything. I don't use marijuana, and if I were to ever test positive for marijuana I'd lose my job. I'd also likely lose the ability to secure another position in my field for a period of time. There would be no 2nd chances, and there would be no steps I could take to avoid termination. I think it should be legalized entirely without restriction, but from a personal perspective I don't care if it's legalized or not.

As far as, "it just masks the pain", well...that's basically pain management in a nutshell. Hell, even a counterirritant like Icy Hot, "masks the pain".

America's Cowboy · May 27, 2019

Hoofbite said:
The likelihood of more people dying while driving under the influence of marijuana was not the argument that was made. It might look that way because the poster I was replying to chose a very poor measure of "mortality", but that was not the claim. You're jumping right into the middle of a discussion about whether or not marijuana use is more harmful than alcohol use (hint: it is not).

FWIW, it was the poster I was replying to who made the comparison to alcohol:

And to that, I replied:

He wanted proof, and I suggested mortality. He provided data about car accidents, which is just a horrible choice for a number of reasons. Most obvious, of course, is that the vast majority of people who die from alcohol use don't die as a result of being in a car accident while drunk.

I never made the claim that there wasn't a greater number of people who die while driving stoned. I would be inclined to believe that legalization has increased the number of people who are driving while under the influence of marijuana, and consequently: I would expect an increase in marijuana-related accidents and deaths. That was not the argument being made but even if it was, it would still be a poor argument.

The argument being made appeared to be that alcohol doesn't kill more people than marijuana, and that is entirely false. Alcohol most certainly does kill more people than marijuana, but the vast majority of the time it's due to circumstances other than driving while under the influence.

Now that you are up to speed, I'd be more than happy to address whatever it is you want to discuss.

I'm not excusing anything. I don't use marijuana, and if I were to ever test positive for marijuana I'd lose my job. I'd also likely lose the ability to secure another position in my field for a period of time. There would be no 2nd chances, and there would be no steps I could take to avoid termination. I think it should be legalized entirely without restriction, but from a personal perspective I don't care if it's legalized or not.

As far as, "it just masks the pain", well...that's basically pain management in a nutshell. Hell, even a counterirritant like Icy Hot, "masks the pain".

Dumb. Just dumb.

Nightman · May 27, 2019

Hoofbite said:
The likelihood of more people dying while driving under the influence of marijuana was not the argument that was made. It might look that way because the poster I was replying to chose a very poor measure of "mortality", but that was not the claim. You're jumping right into the middle of a discussion about whether or not marijuana use is more harmful than alcohol use (hint: it is not).

FWIW, it was the poster I was replying to who made the comparison to alcohol:

And to that, I replied:

He wanted proof, and I suggested mortality. He provided data about car accidents, which is just a horrible choice for a number of reasons. Most obvious, of course, is that the vast majority of people who die from alcohol use don't die as a result of being in a car accident while drunk.

I never made the claim that there wasn't a greater number of people who die while driving stoned. I would be inclined to believe that legalization has increased the number of people who are driving while under the influence of marijuana, and consequently: I would expect an increase in marijuana-related accidents and deaths. That was not the argument being made but even if it was, it would still be a poor argument.

The argument being made appeared to be that alcohol doesn't kill more people than marijuana, and that is entirely false. Alcohol most certainly does kill more people than marijuana, but the vast majority of the time it's due to circumstances other than driving while under the influence.

Now that you are up to speed, I'd be more than happy to address whatever it is you want to discuss.

I'm not excusing anything. I don't use marijuana, and if I were to ever test positive for marijuana I'd lose my job. I'd also likely lose the ability to secure another position in my field for a period of time. There would be no 2nd chances, and there would be no steps I could take to avoid termination. I think it should be legalized entirely without restriction, but from a personal perspective I don't care if it's legalized or not.

As far as, "it just masks the pain", well...that's basically pain management in a nutshell. Hell, even a counterirritant like Icy Hot, "masks the pain".

Safer than alcohol .....less addictive than opioids is a whole can of who cares

The point was that way more people are dying from driving while high on marijuana.... less than alcohol is irrelevant .... there are no number of acceptable deaths from driving while high but it doesn't have stigma of DWI...... it is just as dangerous but stoners excuse it saying the weed was in my system from weeks ago .....BS

And painkillers are prescribed by Drs for a reason.... you can't just go to a vending machine or dispensary and get Perocets or Oxy..... but taken correctly they aren't as harmful.... self medicating with weed or alcohol or opioids is just as dangerous.... there is no good abuse or better thans.... Oxy is time released but abusers crush it and snort it and the full hit at once.... that is not the prescribed usage...... alcohol is not supposed to be drunk by the gallon.... a few drinks is the recommended and safe dosage

HungryLion · May 27, 2019

Nightman said:
Safer than alcohol .....less addictive than opioids is a whole can of who cares

The point was that way more people are dying from driving while high on marijuana.... less than alcohol is irrelevant .... there are no number of acceptable deaths from driving while high but it doesn't have stigma of DWI...... it is just as dangerous but stoners excuse it saying the weed was in my system from weeks ago .....BS

And painkillers are prescribed by Drs for a reason.... you can't just go to a vending machine or dispensary and get Perocets or Oxy..... but taken correctly they aren't as harmful.... self medicating with weed or alcohol or opioids is just as dangerous.... there is no good abuse or better thans.... Oxy is time released but abusers crush it and snort it and the full hit at once.... that is not the prescribed usage...... alcohol is not supposed to be drunk by the gallon.... a few drinks is the recommended and safe dosage

A lot of thing you just said aren’t true. You’re speaking about dosages and prescribed usage. You honestly think future addicts start out by immediately misusing opioids or alcohol? You honestly think addiction isn’t more complex than people just choosing to not follow the correct dosage?

That point completely ignores the fact that people’s
Bodies build up a tolerance to certain chemicals, and they require higher and higher dosages to get the same affects. It’s extremely common with opioids.

ABQCOWBOY · May 28, 2019

FuzzyLumpkins said:
The point is:

Evidence of my point: Jerry Jones
Evidence of yours: zilch.

And I answered your question before with the same wishcasting you use: because they want the praise of a Congressional resolution praising their actions. We both have the same amount of proof that it will happen.

What's amusing is that it flies right over your head.

Jerry saying something is not proof. I mean, I know you want to paint it that way but the reality is that it's not proof. It's Jerry talking and not necessarily for 31 other teams. Secondly, I never claimed that anything would happen. I simply said that I see no good reason to do it if I'm the NFL. This whole wishcasting thing you break out everytime you post in a thread is childish. Why do you do that? Why do you try and paint everybody with the same brush, every single time? I don't understand.

G2 · May 28, 2019

I'll have to dig up the article, but a butt-load of doctors got busted for their handling of opiods. That's where I'd start cracking down, IMO. Of course there's always the source of the product, but we have no control over cartels and some are right in our country.

I'm having dental surgery. My dentist asked me my pain level 1-10. I said 8 or 9, and I told him I won't do pain killers. They do more for a euphoric feeling than pain relief (For Me), and he said, no I wouldn't recommend them over NSAID's. So it's a relief they're not getting pushed down my throat.

I can see how they could be addictive, but I'm wired different. I've been able to abuse things and completely walk away without looking back. So in ways I don't understand addiction.

ABQCOWBOY · May 28, 2019

FuzzyLumpkins said:
It's called the burden of proof. You don't get to speak for others absent proof that they think/feel that way. Back up your claims, it's not a difficult concept.

Proof of what? This is a hypothetical discussion. Nothing, zero, has been introduced by the League or the NFLPA. Further, this is a message board so I can speak about any issue I like, regardless of if you like it or not. You don't like that, you better get right with it because there is literally nothing you can do about it.

What is it that you would like me to back up Fuzzy? If the concept is not difficult, explain please what it is you would like, in terms of proof please. What is it that you would like me to prove?

ABQCOWBOY · May 28, 2019

FuzzyLumpkins said:
Couple of things here:

A) a question is not an argument. My answering or not answering proves nothing.
b) i did answer just not in the way you wanted. I pointed out how your question was self assuming and thus flawed. What's sad is you cannot even recognize it.

Says the guy who wants proof right? No, a question is not an argument. What you do is an argument. However, it's a fair question, why would the NFL want to do this? What do they really get out of it? Makes no sense to me why they would walk this plank but perhaps there is a good reason in their eyes. I mean, I don't think there is but if you see something, I'd be interested to hear it.

Nightman · May 28, 2019

DakPresgoat said:
A lot of thing you just said aren’t true. You’re speaking about dosages and prescribed usage. You honestly think future addicts start out by immediately misusing opioids or alcohol? You honestly think addiction isn’t more complex than people just choosing to not follow the correct dosage?

That point completely ignores the fact that people’s
Bodies build up a tolerance to certain chemicals, and they require higher and higher dosages to get the same affects. It’s extremely common with opioids.

The British recently INCREASED it’s illegality (to class B, stuff like crack is class A) after finally accepting the wealth of medical advice that habitual use of today’s stronger weed significantly increases the risk of chronic mental disorders, particularly if smoked from before one’s mid-20s.

As to supposed medical benefits, there are none – I refer you to the biggest review of its kind, in the Pain Physician journal, Sept 2017 (of which the pdf is free online) “Efficacy of Cannabis-Based Medicines for Pain Management: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Randomized Controlled Trials.” This looked at 43 – FORTY THREE – randomized clinical trials and found most of them found MJ showed absolutely no benefits over placebo, let alone even trying to see if they can out-do any established pain killers.

NFL and NFLPA joint agreement on pain management, potentially including marijuana

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