Super Bowl QBs (cost as % of cap)

Kaiser said:

What a coinky-dink. I'm sure there is some element of that on every team, for Practice Squad guys or minimum salary Kavon Frazier types it isn't hard to steer them endorsement deals and speaking fees.

But Tom Brady was years and years past ever having to think about money when he met his current wife and/or signed his current contract.

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dogunwo said:

Right, but Tom Brady is being lauded as some sort of hero and all time selfless guy because he takes "less" money. In reality Tom has publicly said that he wouldn't if his wife didn't earn what she does. xwalker is right to take him out of the averages because of it.

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xwalker said:

Review of past 12 Super Bowl winning QB contracts.

Notes:

• Tom Brady is an exception (plays for a discount).
  • His company TB12 gets paid by Patriots.
    • Provides health/wellness services/products.
    • Facilities at Patriots Headquarters.
  • His wife makes more than him.

Year ...... Player .............. Contract Type
2007 ….. E.Manning ....... Rookie Contract
2008 ….. Roethlisberger . Vet Contract
2009 ….. D.Brees ........... Vet Contract
2010 ….. A.Rodgers ....... Vet Contract
2011 ….. E.Manning ....... Vet Contract
2012 ….. J.Flacco ........... Rookie Contract
2013 ….. R.Wilson .......... Rookie Contract
2014 ….. T.Brady ............ Tom Brady
2015 ….. P.Manning ....... Vet Contract
2016 ….. T.Brady ............ Tom Brady
2017 ….. N.Foles ............ Backup
2018 ….. T.Brady ............ Tom Brady

Notes:
Using cap hits in specific years to determine a players cost as a percent of the cap is meaningless.
Example (Player signs 2 year, 20M contract):

• Year 1 cap hit: 4M (~2% of 2019 cap)
• Year 2 cap hit: 16M (~8% of 2019 cap)

• The contract average provides the true cost of the player.
• Contract Average 10M (~5% of 2019 cap)

Removing Brady and players on rookie contracts:

Year ...... Player .............. Percent of NFL Cap
2008 ….. Roethlisberger . 17%
2009 ….. D.Brees ............ 08%
2010 ….. A.Rodgers ....... 13%
2011 ….. E.Manning ....... 15%
2015 ….. P.Manning ....... 13%

Note: The above is based on Actual AAV which is different than listed (advertised AAV).

For reference:
30M is ~15% of 2019 cap (projects to 12.5% in 5th year of 5 year contract)
35m is ~17.5% of 2019 cap (projects to 14.6% in 5th year of 5 year contract)


Actual Contract AAV vs Listed Contract AAV

Example:
If a player on a 4 year, 20M rookie contract signs an extension in year 4.

The Listed AAV is 21M (5 years, 105M contract)
1 rookie 5M
2 rookie 5M
3 rookie 5M
1 extension 21M << replaces rookie year 4
2 extension 21M
3 extension 21M
4 extension 21M
5 extension 21M

The Actual AAV is 25M (4 years, 100M)
1 rookie 5M
2 rookie 5M
3 rookie 5M
4 rookie 5M
1 extension 25M
2 extension 25M
3 extension 25M
4 extension 25M

Note:
Effective AAV is different than Listed or Actual AAV.

Effective AAV is the exact amount paid to player on a contract divided by the number of years the player played on that contract. If a player is cut before the end of his contract, then his effective AAV will be higher because his signing bonus will be averaged over less years.

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DasSchnitzel said:

So here are my takeaways:

1) 8% to 17% is a wide range. I imagine that in the years listed, a vast majority of QBs fell in that range. In 2019 dollars, using the OP's numbers, 15% is about 30M. So 8% to 17% is roughly 16M to 34M, which is most starting QBs. My takeaway here is that there isnt much correlation with SB status and vet contract cap percentage.

2) Just considering 30M for 2019 alone, we know we can afford that. Itll get structured appropriately and be no big deal. So in terms of 2019, being in the top half of that list at 15% is doable. By 2020 that's down to about 12%, in the bottom half of the list. The OP doesnt project further but it stands to reason the cap percentage will continue to decrease, unless they stop the cap expansion. So 30M is looking healthy.

This only reinforces my opinion that we should sign him. There's zero reason to believe Dak isnt a Cowboy for the next handful of years at least. We can afford him in the 2019 cap. Just do it now or we're having the same conversations next summer but with bigger numbers.

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speedkilz88 said:

Brady also has a company that does business with the Patriots. Nice way to circumvent the cap.

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Kevinicus said:

So...much much better QBs than Dak (yeah yeah, Eli is an outlier, but he's got a much higher ceiling, and pure dumb luck) got paid a certain % of the cap, so we should pay Dak a similar %? Is that what the point of all this is?

Is there a reason we're ignoring rookie contracts besides the fact that they are a counter to the cap % argument?

Are people still trying to credit SBs to QBs?

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dallasdave said:

Ok Bobby

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MyFairLady said:

This can't be true. It would be such a clear violation of interest I can't possibly imagine this would be allowed to happen.

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Melonfeud said:

I've often thought of numerous ways billionaire owners could additionally compensate key high-$ contract players ,,,er,,,after the fact of them signing very team friendly contracts,although, it always had to circle back to their benefit, in their post-career/ retirement phase of life
(obviously)

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Toruk_Makto said:

I hate this discussion as it relates to Dak. Nobody is saying spending 13% to 17% of your cap on a QB is bad if you truly have a franchise guy. We can go back and looka t history and see many super bowl champions constructed exactly that way.

What you'll also see if you go back to each of those years is team's who didn't have a snowball's chance in hell to compete because they were disproportionately paying their QB in this same way and he wasn't in the top echelon of QB.

Put Eli aside and the championship QBs are the best freaking players of their era (Big Ben, Brees, Rodgers, Peyton & Brady).

Take that list and add Dak to it. One of those things is not like the others.

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CowboyRoy said:

Do you REALLY need all this mumbo jumbo to come to the conclusion that its better to pay a guy less than more? Isnt that just obvious?

We had Dak on a salary of 500k for 3 years and it didn't matter. Its more about how you manage the cap in general and the players and coaches you have around the QB at the time.

Most teams with a franchise type QB is going to have to sign him to a big contract in the 4th or 5th year. OR start over. Most would be happy to pay as that means you have your guy.

Just because of a handful of Romo cry babies aren't convinced is inconsequential to the facts.

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xwalker said:

You missed the point...

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Corso said:

I did like his use of "mumbo jumbo"...

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Corso said:

You dislike Dak. The QB of this team.
You dislike Zeke, the catalyst of this team.

What, exactly, do you want?

Just start over?

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Toruk_Makto said:

Dak is an average starter. Pay him like Nick Foles.

Zeke is a great player. Let someone else pay him like Todd Gurley.

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dogunwo said:

Right, but Tom Brady is being lauded as some sort of hero and all time selfless guy because he takes "less" money. In reality Tom has publicly said that he wouldn't if his wife didn't earn what she does. xwalker is right to take him out of the averages because of it.

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MyFairLady said:

This can't be true. It would be such a clear violation of interest I can't possibly imagine this would be allowed to happen.

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