Ar'Darius Washington TCU Safety

[Cowboyny]

Just listened to a joint podcast with Jeff Cavanaugh and Voch Lombardi. They both have the TCU's Safeties as 1-2 at the position. Surprisingly, they both like Washington a little better, even with his lack of size, being just 5'8. Cavanaugh loves the player and has a 1st rd grade on him, but knows he won't get drafted in the first rd due to his lack of physical traits. His player comp was the Honey Badger.

We have heard recently that Dan Quinn isn't a stickler for necessary size and length for a particular position, that if the player is good, he we find a way to best used his skillset. Last year Winfield was taken in rd 2, despite his lack of size being just 5'9 and has had a very good rookie season.

I see Washington being rated as a 4th rd prospect on many big boards. I have no problem taking him there, or maybe even in the third rd, as he and his teammate Moehrig are excellent fits for that single high role, in which there just aren't many in this year's class.

 

[visionary]

Moehrig in rd 2 if FS not addressed in FA (which would be my preference)

 

[Future]

Washington's height doesn't bother me if you use him like Honey Badger.

The problem is that, if Quinn is going to have him over the top in a cover 3 or 1, height matters a lot. We're talking contested balls against 6-6 TEs and bigger WRs in the seam. I mean, CD is only 6'2" and I'd take my chances with him in a jump ball against Washington every time.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

Washington's height doesn't bother me if you use him like Honey Badger.

The problem is that, if Quinn is going to have him over the top in a cover 3 or 1, height matters a lot. We're talking contested balls against 6-6 TEs and bigger WRs in the seam. I mean, CD is only 6'2" and I'd take my chances with him in a jump ball against Washington every time.

This is the benefit of Quinn of RM.
Quinn doesn't peg players based on their size to a position like RM did.
FS don't have to be 5'11 205 to play in his system.
LB don't have to be 6'4 250 to play in his system.
Quinn understands the NFL has changed and he has changed with it. His defenses have underachieved some do to bad draft picks, and a lot to do with unfortunate injuries.

I think we will see more athletic players at the LB, and FS positions because those are key components to his defense.
Guys like JOK, Washington are guys who really fit his scheme and what he is looking to achieve from it.
A guy I would look at also is Talanoa Hufanga from USC an extremely instinctive S who can play in the box and be a LB in passing downs.

If this defense could add Washington and Hufanga we will have 2 of the more instinctive S in the league.

 

[Future]

This is the benefit of Quinn of RM.
Quinn doesn't peg players based on their size to a position like RM did.
FS don't have to be 5'11 205 to play in his system.
LB don't have to be 6'4 250 to play in his system.
Quinn understands the NFL has changed and he has changed with it. His defenses have underachieved some do to bad draft picks, and a lot to do with unfortunate injuries.

I think we will see more athletic players at the LB, and FS positions because those are key components to his defense.
Guys like JOK, Washington are guys who really fit his scheme and what he is looking to achieve from it.
A guy I would look at also is Talanoa Hufanga from USC an extremely instinctive S who can play in the box and be a LB in passing downs.

If this defense could add Washington and Hufanga we will have 2 of the more instinctive S in the league.

We don't know what Quinn's scheme is going to be, but if it's anything like it was in Seattle, he absolutely needs size, that's what his entire Super Bowl defense was built around. Other than DL, that defense was:

LB - Wagner (6'0), KJ Wright (6'4), Malcolm Smith (6'1), Irvin (6'3)
CB - Sherman (6'3), Browner (6'4), Maxwell (6'1), Thurmond (5'11), Lane (6'0)
S - Chancellor (6'3), Thomas (5'10), Shead (6'2), Johnson (5'10)

The only starter under 6' was Earl Thomas...Neither JOK or Washington is a fit in traditional cover 3 schemes, and that's what Quinn has made his name on.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

We don't know what Quinn's scheme is going to be, but if it's anything like it was in Seattle, he absolutely needs size, that's what his entire Super Bowl defense was built around. Other than DL, that defense was:

LB - Wagner (6'0), KJ Wright (6'4), Malcolm Smith (6'1), Irvin (6'3)
CB - Sherman (6'3), Browner (6'4), Maxwell (6'1), Thurmond (5'11), Lane (6'0)
S - Chancellor (6'3), Thomas (5'10), Shead (6'2), Johnson (5'10)

The only starter under 6' was Earl Thomas...Neither JOK or Washington is a fit in traditional cover 3 schemes, and that's what Quinn has made his name on.

Well if you look at the Falcons scheme for whatever its worth it would say speed is more of an element he is looking at.
With that being said short DB's are a no go for Quinn, LB undersized are not an issue there and a rangy safety with instincts are also what Quinn looks for.

 

[Bigdog]

I'll take him especially in the 4th. That is where I picked him in my mock draft.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

We don't know what Quinn's scheme is going to be, but if it's anything like it was in Seattle, he absolutely needs size, that's what his entire Super Bowl defense was built around. Other than DL, that defense was:

LB - Wagner (6'0), KJ Wright (6'4), Malcolm Smith (6'1), Irvin (6'3)
CB - Sherman (6'3), Browner (6'4), Maxwell (6'1), Thurmond (5'11), Lane (6'0)
S - Chancellor (6'3), Thomas (5'10), Shead (6'2), Johnson (5'10)

The only starter under 6' was Earl Thomas...Neither JOK or Washington is a fit in traditional cover 3 schemes, and that's what Quinn has made his name on.

Wagner combine measured in at 6' 240- bit undersized especially at the time. 4.54 40
Malcolm Smith was 6'1 226 4.44 40 pro day.
Bruce Irvin more of LEO/ Edge 6'3 245 4.41 40 at combine. knock on him undersized.
All of them besides KJ were undersized and terrific athletes.
Same thing you see in Atlanta with LB's

 

[baltcowboy]

Just listened to a joint podcast with Jeff Cavanaugh and Voch Lombardi. They both have the TCU's Safeties as 1-2 at the position. Surprisingly, they both like Washington a little better, even with his lack of size, being just 5'8. Cavanaugh loves the player and has a 1st rd grade on him, but knows he won't get drafted in the first rd due to his lack of physical traits. His player comp was the Honey Badger.

We have heard recently that Dan Quinn isn't a stickler for necessary size and length for a particular position, that if the player is good, he we find a way to best used his skillset. Last year Winfield was taken in rd 2, despite his lack of size being just 5'9 and has had a very good rookie season.

I see Washington being rated as a 4th rd prospect on many big boards. I have no problem taking him there, or maybe even in the third rd, as he and his teammate Moehrig are excellent fits for that single high role, in which there just aren't many in this year's class.

3rd round comp pick. Jeff sounded like he would rate him as a first rounder ahead of Surtain. I agree with Voch that at 5’8 they would isolate him with a big receiver and/ tight end. I see him as a 3rd safety and he could make a good living doing just that.

 

[Future]

Wagner combine measured in at 6' 240- bit undersized especially at the time. 4.54 40
Malcolm Smith was 6'1 226 4.44 40 pro day.
Bruce Irvin more of LEO/ Edge 6'3 245 4.41 40 at combine. knock on him undersized.
All of them besides KJ were undersized and terrific athletes.
Same thing you see in Atlanta with LB's

I think you're overstating size requirements for NFL LBs. Wagner is big for that height lol. I don't know where this 6'4 250 lbs thing came from. There's a handful of guys who meet that requirement.

The point is that they don't have small guys. Irvin was undersized as an edge, not an LB. He played SAM and 3-pt. You're not using JOK like that. Smith was basically a nickel lb, and was heavier than JOK.

 

[cnuball21]

I’m not a big fan of taking guys early that don’t meet size thresholds hoping they can be the exception that hits.

I like Washington, but he’s going to need a creative DC or get the most out of him and we haven’t seen that here in a decade. Quinn is new blood but that’s still risky IMO.

 

[AsthmaField]

I really like the way Washington plays and I would pull the trigger on him in the 4th round, any day.

However, he’d still have to be signed off on by Will McClay, who is a stickler for length in DB’s. I hope I’m wrong, but I can’t see Dallas taking him even if Quinn does like him. If he truly is there in the 4th, maybe McClay would sign off on him.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

I think you're overstating size requirements for NFL LBs. Wagner is big for that height lol. I don't know where this 6'4 250 lbs thing came from. There's a handful of guys who meet that requirement.

The point is that they don't have small guys. Irvin was undersized as an edge, not an LB. He played SAM and 3-pt. You're not using JOK like that. Smith was basically a nickel lb, and was heavier than JOK.

Malcolm Smith was 10 lb's heavier which is JOK can add that much weight in a couple of months. Now the difference between the two is Smith had room to fill out, JOK I don't see the frame to do so.
Not a guy I would target, but a guy I think Quinn would have interest in if we traded back.

 

[stilltheguru]

We don't know what Quinn's scheme is going to be, but if it's anything like it was in Seattle, he absolutely needs size, that's what his entire Super Bowl defense was built around. Other than DL, that defense was:

LB - Wagner (6'0), KJ Wright (6'4), Malcolm Smith (6'1), Irvin (6'3)
CB - Sherman (6'3), Browner (6'4), Maxwell (6'1), Thurmond (5'11), Lane (6'0)
S - Chancellor (6'3), Thomas (5'10), Shead (6'2), Johnson (5'10)

The only starter under 6' was Earl Thomas...Neither JOK or Washington is a fit in traditional cover 3 schemes, and that's what Quinn has made his name on.

Washington is prob 5'9. If earl can play for quinn Washington can

 

[stilltheguru]

Another thing regarding the height, if his arm length and vertical is better than honey badger (and thomas) i dont see how its a real issue. I dont recall some 6'5 receivers Mossing either guy. Budda baker as well.

 

[Future]

Washington is prob 5'9. If earl can play for quinn Washington can

He's 5'8 in a college program. He might be 5'6 for all we know.

But this is missing the entire point, that yes, size matters to Quinn. Or at least has historically. Earl's an HoF talent and also played at around 200 lbs, he's not comparable to Washington.

 

[Cowboyny]

Washington's height doesn't bother me if you use him like Honey Badger.

The problem is that, if Quinn is going to have him over the top in a cover 3 or 1, height matters a lot. We're talking contested balls against 6-6 TEs and bigger WRs in the seam. I mean, CD is only 6'2" and I'd take my chances with him in a jump ball against Washington every time.

There is a reason why we rarely see such small prospects at the position, there will be areas in the game the smaller statured player just cannot compete.

 

[Cowboyny]

This is the benefit of Quinn of RM.
Quinn doesn't peg players based on their size to a position like RM did.
FS don't have to be 5'11 205 to play in his system.
LB don't have to be 6'4 250 to play in his system.
Quinn understands the NFL has changed and he has changed with it. His defenses have underachieved some do to bad draft picks, and a lot to do with unfortunate injuries.

I think we will see more athletic players at the LB, and FS positions because those are key components to his defense.
Guys like JOK, Washington are guys who really fit his scheme and what he is looking to achieve from it.
A guy I would look at also is Talanoa Hufanga from USC an extremely instinctive S who can play in the box and be a LB in passing downs.

If this defense could add Washington and Hufanga we will have 2 of the more instinctive S in the league.

Kazee did play for Quinn while at Atlanta, where he did have some height/weight limitations, now he is a little small for the position, but not 5'8 either.

 

[Cowboyny]

I really like the way Washington plays and I would pull the trigger on him in the 4th round, any day.

However, he’d still have to be signed off on by Will McClay, who is a stickler for length in DB’s. I hope I’m wrong, but I can’t see Dallas taking him even if Quinn does like him. If he truly is there in the 4th, maybe McClay would sign off on him.

I share those same doubts, he likes those benchmarks for the defensive backs, especially length.

 

[Cowboyny]

He's 5'8 in a college program. He might be 5'6 for all we know.

But this is missing the entire point, that yes, size matters to Quinn. Or at least has historically. Earl's an HoF talent and also played at around 200 lbs, he's not comparable to Washington.

Washington is going to be a great test study. I think he needs a creative DC to have him in good situations. Might be more of a nickel/slot and play safety in certain packages, but don't think he could be an every down player in this league. Would I still draft him? Maybe, but not until day 3.

The biggest issue for the Cowboys is finding a true, single high safety with range. There just isn't many in this class at all. Team may have to look more towards fa. I certainly would look into signing Hooker to a 1yr deal. He is an ideal fit and if somehow they can figure out his durability issues, he could be a pro bowl talent.