Catching Hell on ESPN tonight

[yimyammer]

Heads up for the fascinating story about the Cubs fan, Steve Bartman, who was made out to be the scapegoat for the Mets loss.

Fandom run amuck imo, I feel awful for this guy.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

What Bartman did was stupid....as a fan watching a game.

I like how the media would keep saying 'all of us would have done the same thing in the same situation.'

Really?

I believe a lot of people would have, but I've seen others act differently because they know the situation. I've seen it happen to Yankees fans in close games...and see most of them part the way.

But, what happened to him was appalling. It just got really out of hand from a diehard fan who seemed to be a good guy.

Not sure if he breaks his silence. I do think he should by now. I think if they just say 'hey, he was a good guy and a diehard Cubs fan who got caught up in the moment....and there was still no guarantee that Alou catches the ball and we gave up the runs foolishly afterwards AND we still had 1 more game to correct ourselves'.....I'm buying into that.

I think they should show some of the torment and fear he went thru.

It'll be interesting how it turns out. I"m afraid they'll try to pose Bartman as too much of a victim and play the 'everybody would do the same thing' angle a bit too much for my tastes. But, if they can handle it from his perspective, what he went thru...how he's still a fan, etc......I think he would be fully embraced as a Cubs fan.






YR

 

[yimyammer]

What Bartman did was stupid....as a fan watching a game.

I like how the media would keep saying 'all of us would have done the same thing in the same situation.'

Really?

I believe a lot of people would have, but I've seen others act differently because they know the situation. I've seen it happen to Yankees fans in close games...and see most of them part the way.

But, what happened to him was appalling. It just got really out of hand from a diehard fan who seemed to be a good guy.

Not sure if he breaks his silence. I do think he should by now. I think if they just say 'hey, he was a good guy and a diehard Cubs fan who got caught up in the moment....and there was still no guarantee that Alou catches the ball and we gave up the runs foolishly afterwards AND we still had 1 more game to correct ourselves'.....I'm buying into that.

I think they should show some of the torment and fear he went thru.

It'll be interesting how it turns out. I"m afraid they'll try to pose Bartman as too much of a victim and play the 'everybody would do the same thing' angle a bit too much for my tastes. But, if they can handle it from his perspective, what he went thru...how he's still a fan, etc......I think he would be fully embraced as a Cubs fan.






YR

It certainly seems he could have diffused the situation by coming out publicly, making light of himself and "manning" up to a degree. If he was clever and creative enough in the way he presented himself, he might have been able to turn this whole thing on its head and possibly even found a way to profit from it. It might not have been a bad idea to hire a talented and clever PR guy to fo help him figure out how to do it.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

It certainly seems he could have diffused the situation by coming out publicly, making light of himself and "manning" up to a degree. If he was clever and creative enough in the way he presented himself, he might have been able to turn this whole thing on its head and possibly even found a way to profit from it. It might not have been a bad idea to hire a talented and clever PR guy to fo help him figure out how to do it.

Problem is that we don't know what went on. Personally, I think I could handle it....except if somebody threatened to come after my family. That would be difficult.

I'm watching it so far. I don't like the director in this. First, he's a Red Sox fan that cannot help but interject the Red Sox into the documentary and then interject himself and his own fandom of the Red Sox into the documentary (why doesn't this surprise me).

They've already tried to make some excuses for Bartmann that really don't fly. But, it's really a documentary on the depravity of some sports fans.






YR

 

[mldardy]

Problem is that we don't know what went on. Personally, I think I could handle it....except if somebody threatened to come after my family. That would be difficult.

I'm watching it so far. I don't like the director in this. First, he's a Red Sox fan that cannot help but interject the Red Sox into the documentary and then interject himself and his own fandom of the Red Sox into the documentary (why doesn't this surprise me).

They've already tried to make some excuses for Bartmann that really don't fly. But, it's really a documentary on the depravity of some sports fans.






YR

I agree, although the director is an Academy Award winner interjecting the Red Sox in it and for 15 minutes I believe was pointless. The Red Sox had nothing to do with what happened that night.

 

[yimyammer]

It makes for a really fascinating case study on the psychology of people, especially groups bonded with a common pain. The Mets fans seemed to have grown so accustomed to losing that they were just looking for things to blow up in their face and when the Bartman play occurred they had their villain.

Wasn't the score 3-0 with one out in the top of the eighth?

It just seems insane to me to place the blame on this guy, just shows how irrational people can be when they let emotions overrule sound logic and reasoning.

The mentality strikes me as the type of mindset that became one of the ingredients in the lethal cocktail that spawned **** Germany.

 

[yimyammer]

Problem is that we don't know what went on. Personally, I think I could handle it....except if somebody threatened to come after my family. That would be difficult.

I'm watching it so far. I don't like the director in this. First, he's a Red Sox fan that cannot help but interject the Red Sox into the documentary and then interject himself and his own fandom of the Red Sox into the documentary (why doesn't this surprise me).

They've already tried to make some excuses for Bartmann that really don't fly. But, it's really a documentary on the depravity of some sports fans.


YR

Apparently he has had opportunities to cash in on this and turned them down:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bartman_incident

He requested that any gifts sent to him by Florida Marlins fans be donated to the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation.[11] In July 2008, Bartman was offered $25,000 to autograph a picture of himself at National Sports Collectors Convention in Rosemont, Illinois, but he refused the offer.[12] He declined to appear as a VIP at Wrigley Field. In 2011, 8 years after the incident, he declined to appear in an ESPN documentary, and he declined a six figure offer to appear in a Super Bowl commercial

The whole Mets thing just cracks me up, the curse of the black cat, the curse of the billygoat, LMAO!

 

[peplaw06]

Problem is that we don't know what went on. Personally, I think I could handle it....except if somebody threatened to come after my family. That would be difficult.

I'm watching it so far. I don't like the director in this. First, he's a Red Sox fan that cannot help but interject the Red Sox into the documentary and then interject himself and his own fandom of the Red Sox into the documentary (why doesn't this surprise me).

They've already tried to make some excuses for Bartmann that really don't fly. But, it's really a documentary on the depravity of some sports fans.






YR

It's pretty easy to see the correlation between Buckner's play and Steve Bartman. I thought it was well done. The Buckner story, while just as reprehensible, turned out to be a good story, and he was "forgiven" by the organization. Maybe the same thing could happen to Bartman someday.

 

[yimyammer]

It's pretty easy to see the correlation between Buckner's play and Steve Bartman. I thought it was well done. The Buckner story, while just as reprehensible, turned out to be a good story, and he was "forgiven" by the organization. Maybe the same thing could happen to Bartman someday.

I think they got it backwards. I think the fans and organizations should ask for forgiveness for how ridiculously they treated these two.

It bugged me that to my knowledge noone in the organization for the Mets came out and stood up for Bartman and took responsibility for losing that series, they were up 3-0 with 5 outs to go in game six and they lost that game as well as game 7, that's not Bartmans fault and there shouldn't be any doubt about this.

 

[StylisticS]

It's pretty easy to see the correlation between Buckner's play and Steve Bartman. I thought it was well done. The Buckner story, while just as reprehensible, turned out to be a good story, and he was "forgiven" by the organization. Maybe the same thing could happen to Bartman someday.

Yeah but Buckner went into hiding himself for a while. He didn't come out until the Red Sox won the world series....twice.

 

[peplaw06]

I think they got it backwards. I think the fans and organizations should ask for forgiveness for how ridiculously they treated these two.

Yeah, that's why I put forgiven in quotes.

Yeah but Buckner went into hiding himself for a while. He didn't come out until the Red Sox won the world series....twice.

I don't blame him either, just like I don't blame Bartman for not doing any interviews or public appearances. Can you imagine cashing in on being the goat for your favorite team, if you really were a die hard fan?

Hard to believe that was only 8 years ago. Buckner took 21 years to be "forgiven." I hope Bartman doesn't have to deal with this for that long. I will always root for the Cubs if they ever make the playoffs, that is unless they're playing my team in the World Series, just so this goes away.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I see some correlation between Buckner and Bartman, although one was a professional athlete and the other was just a fan. I could see some interjection of the Red Sox, but Gibney had entirely too much. Which is really typical of Boston Red Sox fanboys because they just cannot help themselves with trying to mention that they are Red Sox fans and that they have been through all this suffering. They say misery loves company, but I'm not sure company is seeking out misery. I think Gibney doesn't understand that. There was entirely too much of the Buckner thing and it was throughout the entire movie.

After watching the documentary and reading some comments about it, I think it showed two things. One is something most agree upon, but I think the other is something most people gloss over.

1. The depravity of compassion for a fellow human being by the fans.

I think the chants early on were mostly done in some sort of jest. But they wound up turning into something else and getting very ugly quickly, aided by the booze. Pat Looney said he didn't think anything of it the next day in the story written about it in ESPN.com because they thought he was Bartman (he was sitting next to him and did attempt to go after the ball) because he didn't think anybody was really going to make good on their promise. But, the footage of Bartman being escorted to the tunnel paints a different picture as there were people who were almost making good on their promise to physically harm him.

I think most viewers got this. And it actually made me ashamed to be a sports fan for that very second.


2. The depravity of the media.

I think just about everybody glosses over this. And it's hard to blame them as once again...the media...particularly the sports press...just happens to side step the blame again.

Did we really need to know Steve Bartman's name? Did we really need to know where he lived and what he did for a living and what company he worked for?

I fully understand showing the play. And I can understand how an announcer like Steve Lyons could say some of the things he said because they were truthful and spur of the moment. And the footage may have helped save Bartman's life (okay, outside chance, but a chance nonetheless) and actually helped people sympathize with him on a weird level.

But the aftermath was hideous and not surprisingly...ESPN couldn't help but to press their foot on his neck even more in the following aftermath.

It to me...it's revolting to hear cowards like Mike Wilbon tear into Bartman in the aftermath and then do a complete 180 years later and act like him tearing into Bartman never happened.

To me, the press was worse to Bartman than the fans because they had the choice of defusing the situation or getting ratings and ruining a person's life and they chose...the ratings and ruining Bartman's life.

And the gall of ESPN is unbelievable to send a reporter out there with the mission of 'find Bartman.' One can't help but wonder if the people at ESPN have any morals at all.

Although ironically, the thing I knock against ESPN the most is the fanboy nature of most of their journalists and reporters and how ESPN seems to encourage that in their work. I can't remember the reporters name, but when he said he finally let his guard down and told Bartman he thought what happened to him 'sucks', it at least showed somebody there has some compassion.

I guess it still amazes me how the media sidesteps the blame here. The part of the media that did the least amount of sidestepping was the camera director and Lyons...and they deserved the least amount of blame.

I guess you have to have shame in order to be shameful.







YR

 

[WV Cowboy]

The Mets fans seemed to have grown so accustomed to losing that they were just looking for things to blow up in their face and when the Bartman play occurred they had their villain.

Wasn't the score 3-0 with one out in the top of the eighth?

It just seems insane to me to place the blame on this guy, just shows how irrational people can be when they let emotions overrule sound logic and reasoning.

I think they got it backwards. I think the fans and organizations should ask for forgiveness for how ridiculously they treated these two.

It bugged me that to my knowledge noone in the organization for the Mets came out and stood up for Bartman and took responsibility for losing that series, they were up 3-0 with 5 outs to go in game six and they lost that game as well as game 7, that's not Bartmans fault and there shouldn't be any doubt about this.

Gosh, I watched the show last night, I could have sworn it was the Cubs.

I'm worried about me.

 

[WV Cowboy]

, they were up 3-0 with 5 outs to go in game six and they lost that game as well as game 7, that's not Bartmans fault and there shouldn't be any doubt about this.

This.

That's like blaming the guy that yelled "you suck" at Romo at halftime of the Jets game for the pick he threw at the end.

That, and the black cat behind the bench in the 4th quarter.

 

[casmith07]

They said Moises Alou had already bought a ticket home because he didn't think they'd win the series.

Nothing to see here.

 

[yimyammer]

Gosh, I watched the show last night, I could have sworn it was the Cubs.

I'm worried about me.

Ha! MY BAD! Worry about me brotha, I'm afraid I'm getting early Alzheimers

 

[Rogah]

I feel bad for the guy, but I am also quite disgusted by ESPN's sanctimony on this matter. That highlight was shown over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again on ESPN.

Maybe it wouldn't have been such a disruptive force in this man's life if that weren't the case.