Had this thought about our D

[Hawkeye19]

I have watched the D these last 3 weeks, and I have been frustrated by a lack of splash negative plays. At the same time, it has been maddening to watch how the short passing game, particularly to the RBs always seems to be open.

Then it hit me. And it's obvious. This is what the D is trying to do. Avoid the big play. Keep everything in front of you. Run and tackle.

They don't care about yards-- they care about points. And so this defense may not be the sexy, play making unit we want-- BUT, they are achieving their goal of limiting points. They have given up too many chunk plays and a couple of garbage scores-- but IMO-- the dominant philosophy in play comes back to gap discipline, stop the run, bend but don't break, and tackle well.

For all the preaching they do on the importance of turnovers-- this team seems allergic to them. Been that way for years. However-- this formula is not "broken" and this D does not "suck". They seem content to get nickeled and dimed down the field-- but in the end-- if they lead the league in scoring defense-- is that not the most important goal?

Don't get me wrong-- I want more splash plays-- but maybe those short passes are open because they are taking away everything else and hoping that most QBs will get impatient and make a mistake or that they will be able to force a mistake over a long drive vs giving up quick scores.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

Well I think it is more than that. Our first 2 games were against Divisional opponents who we know very well. Eli - get's the ball out quick, best course for him is to play coverage and let the 4 guys up front do their thing. Eli is not going any where and if we can make him hold the ball, the sacks will come. Blitzes rarely work against him because he throws quickly. So our game plan was to play coverage and tackle well. We won.

The Skins don't have the talent to really move the ball consistently. The only way they win our game is if we make mistakes, give up big plays and lots of turnovers. They took their shot a few times and were semi successful but overall the D did their job. We won.

The dolphins - new QB, how were they going to use him? What concepts did they change with him as the QB? What throws does he like and is confident in? Took the first half to feel them out. Got a good sense of what they were trying to do and we countered in the 2nd half with a completely dominating D - 65 total yards and no points. We won.

I think they will do different things based on who the opponent is. This week, I expect to see a more aggressive D, more like the 2nd half of the Dolphins game. I think our D is playing well and rounding into shape. We will be fine.

 

[waldoputty]

i think that is what is going on as well against the first 3 crappy teams.
lets see if things change from now on.

 

[Stash]

I have watched the D these last 3 weeks, and I have been frustrated by a lack of splash negative plays. At the same time, it has been maddening to watch how the short passing game, particularly to the RBs always seems to be open.

Then it hit me. And it's obvious. This is what the D is trying to do. Avoid the big play. Keep everything in front of you. Run and tackle.

They don't care about yards-- they care about points. And so this defense may not be the sexy, play making unit we want-- BUT, they are achieving their goal of limiting points. They have given up too many chunk plays and a couple of garbage scores-- but IMO-- the dominant philosophy in play comes back to gap discipline, stop the run, bend but don't break, and tackle well.

For all the preaching they do on the importance of turnovers-- this team seems allergic to them. Been that way for years. However-- this formula is not "broken" and this D does not "suck". They seem content to get nickeled and dimed down the field-- but in the end-- if they lead the league in scoring defense-- is that not the most important goal?

Don't get me wrong-- I want more splash plays-- but maybe those short passes are open because they are taking away everything else and hoping that most QBs will get impatient and make a mistake or that they will be able to force a mistake over a long drive vs giving up quick scores.

I think you're right about what 'the plan' is, and it is very reminiscent of the Tampa-2 philosophy that Marinelli comes from.

My issue with it is that too often for my tastes, the defense has both bent and broken. There have been too many occurrences in all three games where the defense has allowed the opposition to march right down the field. And sometimes they've stiffen and held the opponents, but sometimes they have not.

For me, they've been both disappointing in generate negative plays (sacks, turnovers) as well as often playing too conservatively and giving up quick throws and cheap, easy yards.

 

[big dog cowboy]

They don't care about yards-- they care about points. And so this defense may not be the sexy, play making unit we want-- BUT, they are achieving their goal of limiting points.

 

[Hawkeye19]

Well I think it is more than that. Our first 2 games were against Divisional opponents who we know very well. Eli - get's the ball out quick, best course for him is to play coverage and let the 4 guys up front do their thing. Eli is not going any where and if we can make him hold the ball, the sacks will come. Blitzes rarely work against him because he throws quickly. So our game plan was to play coverage and tackle well. We won.

The Skins don't have the talent to really move the ball consistently. The only way they win our game is if we make mistakes, give up big plays and lots of turnovers. They took their shot a few times and were semi successful but overall the D did their job. We won.

The dolphins - new QB, how were they going to use him? What concepts did they change with him as the QB? What throws does he like and is confident in? Took the first half to feel them out. Got a good sense of what they were trying to do and we countered in the 2nd half with a completely dominating D - 65 total yards and no points. We won.

I think they will do different things based on who the opponent is. This week, I expect to see a more aggressive D, more like the 2nd half of the Dolphins game. I think our D is playing well and rounding into shape. We will be fine.

They definitely played their best half of football in the 2nd half vs Miami... hopefully D Law is getting healthier and Quinn is a nice addition as a pass rusher and looked great considering it was his first game after an injury and suspension on a new team.

Anyway-- huge test on Sun night. Would love to see them smother Kamara and Thomas again. Last year-- the coverage was so sticky and our defenders were all over the field and in the hip pockets of whoever they were guarding.

 

[zrinkill]

That's exactly what they are doing ....... It just does not look like last year because they are not getting sacks and fumble recoveries.

 

[Hawkeye19]

I think you're right about what 'the plan' is, and it is very reminiscent of the Tampa-2 philosophy that Marinelli comes from.

My issue with it is that too often for my tastes, the defense has both bent and broken. There have been too many occurrences in all three games where the defense has allowed the opposition to march right down the field. And sometimes they've stiffen and held the opponents, but sometimes they have not.

For me, they've been both disappointing in generate negative plays (sacks, turnovers) as well as often playing too conservatively and giving up quick throws and cheap, easy yards.

They are giving up 14.6 points a game... I like the fact that Heath has come out and said that from Marinelli's perspective, the defense was 0-2 going into the Miami game and that they have failed to live up to their own standards-- regardless of who their opponent is or what the box score says.

I think they are still knocking off some rust. Hopefully they can build on the last half of football and get it going vs a very good offense on Sun night.

 

[quickccc]

it's not the short RB dump offs that bother me - and thus far we are having success getting offenses off the field per 3rd down.
it's more the Awuzie deep balls big plays that's been happening in 2 of the 3 games, that is concerning me,

and that coverage and that position is made for Chidou to have to make that play - if he doesn't make it, the opposition will keep going at him because they know the success rate
and chance will be favoring them. he'll give up the big play pass.. or be called for PI. and I was stunned that Gruden and the Skins did not even try to go at him- which all the more
makes me think he's such on borrowed time last days as a HC. But Awuzie continues to have issues not getting his head turned and in position to defend the deep play.

it's " allergic' because there's too much of a lack of ball hawk players, especially at the starting CB roles. their mentality and lack of ball skills will not ever suggest that they will
seek out the ball coming at them, They are fully content to knock the throw pass down than jump at it for the INT.
when we saw Bears plummeted the Skins, we saw DBs jumping routes, tipped balls, and into the passing lanes for multiple INTs - we don't have enough players doing that.

Even Jeff Heath hasn't been the INT machine he used to be two years ago as a nickel DB. Xavier who had 3 INTs last year may provide that the more comfortable
he becomes in his 2nd year as a starter. He's already forced a fumble (vs Barkley) that we could not recover in time - and he almost had the bobbled INT vs Skins.
it's something about Xavier that makes me think he's going to be eventual be a turnover creator. I think LVE will be in that book too.

but what I think is hurting us when it comes to turnovers, as a lack of disruption and pas rush upfront as well as a lacking number of ball hawks in the back seven, imo.

 

[phildadon86]

I have watched the D these last 3 weeks, and I have been frustrated by a lack of splash negative plays. At the same time, it has been maddening to watch how the short passing game, particularly to the RBs always seems to be open.

Then it hit me. And it's obvious. This is what the D is trying to do. Avoid the big play. Keep everything in front of you. Run and tackle.

They don't care about yards-- they care about points. And so this defense may not be the sexy, play making unit we want-- BUT, they are achieving their goal of limiting points. They have given up too many chunk plays and a couple of garbage scores-- but IMO-- the dominant philosophy in play comes back to gap discipline, stop the run, bend but don't break, and tackle well.

For all the preaching they do on the importance of turnovers-- this team seems allergic to them. Been that way for years. However-- this formula is not "broken" and this D does not "suck". They seem content to get nickeled and dimed down the field-- but in the end-- if they lead the league in scoring defense-- is that not the most important goal?

Don't get me wrong-- I want more splash plays-- but maybe those short passes are open because they are taking away everything else and hoping that most QBs will get impatient and make a mistake or that they will be able to force a mistake over a long drive vs giving up quick scores.

The last player I remember who wasnt allergic to TO's was Anthony Henry. Thats saying a lot

 

[Hawkeye0202]

 

[doomsday9084]

Yes, the defense is trying to make the opposing offense dink and dunk all the way down the field in hopes they eventually shoot themselves in the foot. Its kind of irritating but its effective against bad teams. End result is going to be a lot of yards but not a lot of points. In our flag happy NFL, teams invariably are going to kill their own drive with a holding call.

Here is the controversial part: Pre-2019 Dak was a dink and dunk passer. Effectively he is what the Cowboys defense want to turn opposing QB's into. It kind of validates the complaints about pre-2019 Dak. Or maybe Linehan. Either way, its kind of odd that Garrett had a defensive coordinator who's entire philosophy was based around making teams look like his offense because its a good way to keep points off the board and he didn't seem to notice.

 

[Flamma]

I wouldn't worry about the D this early in the season. In today's NFL a lot of these teams ill be totally different in week 8.

 

[Stash]

They are giving up 14.6 points a game...

And have played some of the very worst quarterback situations in the entire league. Two of the teams we've played thus far already have changed quarterbacks, and there's talk that the third might look to do the same soon. I believe our opponents are a combined 1-8 in record, with the Giants getting off the Schneid just this past week.

I like the fact that Heath has come out and said that from Marinelli's perspective, the defense was 0-2 going into the Miami game and that they have failed to live up to their own standards-- regardless of who their opponent is or what the box score says.

I don't care much for what either of those two have to say right now. I'd prefer results to talk.

I think they are still knocking off some rust. Hopefully they can build on the last half of football and get it going vs a very good offense on Sun night.

I hope so. But their time to have knocked off that rust is now passed. Things get real from here on out and they had better be ready.

 

[ClappingCarrot]

Guys, this is nothing new. This is called "bend, but don't break" and is the hallmark of Rod Marinelli.

Spoiler alert: this doesn't get it done in the postseason.

 

[jazzcat22]

So they gave up TD's to NY and Washington to go down 7-0, then tightened it up. Allowing late TD's in a prevent type defense.
For Miami, we traded TD's for FG's. How often did we say last year, at least in the 1st half of the season, we can't do that. But this year in 3 games we are on the TD side, not FG side. So that is some success there.

I still want to see them not give up these easy yards moving teams downfield. As they are not always going to make a stop or just hold them to a FG attempt.
They need to be better between the 20's. I think they will improve with that. I just want it to to be sooner than later.

 

[Aviano90]

I'm fine with this "bend don't break" defense as long as it quits getting shattered in the playoffs.

 

[reddyuta]

sorry but this team can be run on ,especially against a strong Oline.The giants Oline manhandled us,we would have been in trouble in that game with Barkley if the game was close.now with Woods out the Saints will do the obvious and run it down our throat and they have a very good oline too.

 

[JD_KaPow]

I have watched the D these last 3 weeks, and I have been frustrated by a lack of splash negative plays. At the same time, it has been maddening to watch how the short passing game, particularly to the RBs always seems to be open.

Then it hit me. And it's obvious. This is what the D is trying to do. Avoid the big play. Keep everything in front of you. Run and tackle.

They don't care about yards-- they care about points. And so this defense may not be the sexy, play making unit we want-- BUT, they are achieving their goal of limiting points. They have given up too many chunk plays and a couple of garbage scores-- but IMO-- the dominant philosophy in play comes back to gap discipline, stop the run, bend but don't break, and tackle well.

For all the preaching they do on the importance of turnovers-- this team seems allergic to them. Been that way for years. However-- this formula is not "broken" and this D does not "suck". They seem content to get nickeled and dimed down the field-- but in the end-- if they lead the league in scoring defense-- is that not the most important goal?

Don't get me wrong-- I want more splash plays-- but maybe those short passes are open because they are taking away everything else and hoping that most QBs will get impatient and make a mistake or that they will be able to force a mistake over a long drive vs giving up quick scores.

That's fine, unless it's all you can do. New England will obliterate this kind of defense. The Saints with Brees would as well; we'll see what happens this weekend. Both those offenses are designed to throw underneath, get good gains and yac, and never make mistakes.

On the bright side, we played the first two games without a semblance of a pass rusher on the right side, and the third game missing half our DTs. I'm curious to see if things get any better with the full DL in place.

 

[J-man]

I think the OP is right about the defensive philosophy. They are indeed letting the easy stuff in front of them as to force teams to drive the entire length of the field, small step at a time.
But I also think they need to be more aggressive up front to generate more mistakes/turnovers.
Once they see the QB not hand off and drop back to pass, they have to go hard after him to at least affect his throwing ability in order to help our non-ballhawking DBs make some plays. They are there, just need to finish.