How did the Cowboys fall in the 80s?

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

I would rather hear sources other than Skip Baseless God's Coach. Landry may have been human, but that book was harsh. Having said that, maybe the game was passing him, but other factors were in play:

• How do you replace HoF players like Staubach, White, Pearson (who should be HoF)?
• Was the rest of the NFL catching up with the Cowboys in recruiting?
• Was Gil Brant the one the game was passing him by?

I want to make a case that Bum Bright could be the real villain as he was determined to sell the Cowboys to an owner that would fire Landry. Was the terms as Bright bought the team he could not fire Landry or Schram? Anyway, I would have hoped Bright would have been more patient and not only get a good price for the Cowboys, but screen better for the next owner. I'm OK with it being time for Landry to go, but would have greatly preferred another Murchison, Kraft, or Rooney.

 

[Alexander]

Simply stated, the rest of the league caught up to us.

Back in the 1970s and very early 1980s, we were the smartest team in the NFL.

We routinely swindled other teams for draft picks because they were not valued. And since we were winning, we traded a lot of backups for high draft choices. And most of these trades were one-sided with Dallas laughing every April.

Had one of the best coaches too.

Where we fell off was in the draft and how most teams approached it.

Contrary to popular belief, Brandt did not hit homeruns every draft. He had some home runs like the Dirty Dozen draft, but he blew a lot of high round picks. And I mean a lot. Enough that if people cared enough about it back then they would be enraged.

Teams caught up to how we scouted, what we did and we fell to the middle of the pack and then finally off the cliff.

Brandt seemed more intent on taking projects than productive football players. We also stopped being aggressive.

We used to trade up for players like Dorsett. We loved Rice, but never thought for a second someone else would.

Bum Bright was a cheap owner who really did not care about football. He hated Landry and basically made his firing a condition of the sale.

 

[Vanilla2]

So in your scenario if bright found a "better" buyer would the Super Bowls have happened?

And what if the search for a preemptive Jerry upgrade led to a worse owner?

Would we still be happy because the team probably has a real GM?

I find the premise of this thread to be a joke.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

The mid to late 80's was tough for those of us used to winning and being competitive year after year after year. We just didnt have the same talent. We had QB's like Gary Hogeboom and Steve Pelluer.

Even tho it was in vogue to say the game had passed Landry by, I dont think it was necessarily true. Joe Gibbs said it didnt pass Landry by. What I remember is that even tho we lost a lot of those games with Landry coached teams we were in most of the games but just werent good enough talent wise to get it done all 4 quarters.

The futility in the late 80's is what made those 90's teams so special for Cowboys fans everywhere. What we had grown used to and taken for granted for 20 years had been taken away from us in the 80's. The 90's SB wins were something I appreciated much more because of living thru the 80's.

Its hard to know for sure what caused the decline. It had to be more than just one or two factors.

 

[Alexander]

So in your scenario if bright found a "better" buyer would the Super Bowls have happened?

And what if the search for a preemptive Jerry upgrade led to a worse owner?

Would we still be happy because the team probably has a real GM?

I find the premise of this thread to be a joke.

Actually it is your defensive interpretation of something he never asked is what the joke is.

 

[jobberone]

Don't know but here are some thoughts.

1. White was a better athlete than Staubach but wasn't the clutch player.
2. In White's defense we didn't have as talented a roster overall as the 70s.
3. The Flex defense was difficult to learn and required discipline. I've stated this many times but once you lose enough core and talented players then you lose the ability for players to learn directly and indirectly from other players. But that's not the big story.
4. Aforementioned talent drain-some being too cute with the draft; lay some of that on Brandt
5. Not only talent drain of players but also of coaches. You lost Ditka and Reeves after the 80 season then eventually Allen, Stallings, Nolan, and finally Stautner. This is a bigger deal to me than I suspect most people although still not the headlines.
6. We finished in 1st in points in 80 then 6, 5, and 2nd then 18th in 84. Then mostly the same or worse until 91 on offense. We finished 11, 8, 6, 11, and 9th the last five years on defense under Landry. Then awful until 1991. 6 and 7 is the meat of the matter.
7. In 85 the defense still reads like a Who's Who and the offense ain't so bad either. In 86 and 87 Pelleur and White split time with Pelleur more so than White in 86 then vice versa in 87. In 88 it's all Steve.

So basically losing coaches, All World players, and getting Pelleur as QB. You can blame Landry on Pelleur but remember Danny was 34 when the dance began so I'd think part of that decision was to develop the new Dallas Cowboys QB. You can blame Tex and Gil for most of the decline in players like the famous Hill pick.

Maybe part of it is all good things come to an end.....until they start over again.

 

[Alexander]

The mid to late 80's was tough for those of us used to winning and being competitive year after year after year. We just didnt have the same talent. We had QB's like Gary Hogeboom and Steve Pelluer.

Even tho it was in vogue to say the game had passed Landry by, I dont think it was necessarily true. Joe Gibbs said it didnt pass Landry by. What I remember is that even tho we lost a lot of those games with Landry coached teams we were in most of the games but just werent good enough talent wise to get it done all 4 quarters.

The game absolutely did pass Landry by. His advantage was always being the smartest coach on the field. Eventually he stopped being progressive...I mean there is a limit. The man revolutionized the game of football on two sides of the ball.

The Walsh 49ers had already passed us over. The final straw were the Ditka Bears absolutely humiliating us.

Not having a QB to replace White was a problem, but we had a lot of bad talent on those teams and we got old.

The futility in the late 80's is what made those 90's teams so special for Cowboys fans everywhere. What we had grown used to and taken for granted for 20 years had been taken away from us in the 80's. The 90's SB wins were something I appreciated much more because of living thru the 80's.

Its hard to know for sure what caused the decline. It had to be more than just one or two factors.

The current futility makes that frustration back then make those of us who were upset at the time seem really impatient.

I would gladly take a 7-9, 7-8 and 3-13 if I knew the team could start over. We do not even have that hope anymore. Not with our braintrust in charge.

 

[Alexander]

Maybe part of it is all good things come to an end.....until they start over again.

Or they get stuck in a ditch and spin their wheels for nearly two decades.

 

[Vanilla2]

Actually it is your defensive interpretation of something he never asked is what the joke is.

What's the last paragraph say?

 

[jobberone]

Or they get stuck in a ditch and spin their wheels for nearly two decades.

Couldn't resist huh?

 

[Alexander]

What's the last paragraph say?

Him blaming Bum Bright? Regretting he was not being diligent in vetting the owner?

All in all, that's irrelevant. Bright had no interest in who bought the team. He wanted out, he wanted the money and he wanted to humiliate Landry before he left the building.

The premise of the thread, at least to me, were the three specific questions he asked.

And I well, look at the thread title and tried to stick to that question too.

But if you want to get all defensive because it takes a veiled shot at Jerry Jones, knock yourself out.

However, do not pretend that was the premise of the thread. That is what you took out of it.

 

[Alexander]

Couldn't resist huh?

Guilty as charged. The pathetic thing is that it is too easy anymore.

 

[theSHOW]

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[DandyDon1722]

If you look at the mid to late 80's then late 90's to mid 2000's there is one over riding reason we were simply not competitive -- it's about the QB play.

We never won a championship with Meredith, White and currently with Romo but at least we were always competitive. Those lean years are a direct reflection of how important that position is.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I want to make a case that Bum Bright could be the real villain as he was determined to sell the Cowboys to an owner that would fire Landry.

Not the reason we went downhill. Go look at our drafting. No HC could have won with that.

 

[burmafrd]

our drafting and scouting were badly hit because Bright refused to pay money for better scouts and better coaches. Landry lost his best assistant coaches and was not allowed to spend money to get better ones. Our scouts were not very good and as has been said Gil was just not as sharp later on as he was early- also the scouting and lack of top assistant coaches and their input was important as well.

And not having someone really good at QB when White started to go downhill was just the cherry on top.

 

[mrmojo]

The 80's Cowboys did kind of what Jerry did with the 90's dynasty, they kept a lot of players around past their prime and didnt have adequate replacements in the draft. Randy White, Too Tall, Dutton, Rafferty, Dorsett, Danny White were core players going into 1985.

A post mentioned the Flex and how complicated it was to master. We just didnt have the players to play that defense and I remember the media criticizing Landry for not switching to the 3-4 which was coming into its own at the time.

But there were several factors that led to 3-13, but having said all that from 1980-1988 Landry still had 3 NFL championship game and 5 playoff appearences in 9 years.......coaches would kill for that resume....but unfortunately the last 3 years led to change in ownership and coach and the rest is history.

 

[Alexander]

A post mentioned the Flex and how complicated it was to master. We just didnt have the players to play that defense and I remember the media criticizing Landry for not switching to the 3-4 which was coming into its own at the time.

The Flex also was not really that sustainable. There is a reason nobody has run it since. Only Landry understood it fully because it was his.

 

[mrmojo]

The Flex also was not really that sustainable. There is a reason nobody has run it since. Only Landry understood it fully because it was his.

I believe Dick Nolan tried to run a version of it in NO in the late 70s but i dont think it ever panned out.

 

[burmafrd]

The Flex also was not really that sustainable. There is a reason nobody has run it since. Only Landry understood it fully because it was his.

you do know San Francisco also used the Flex in the 70's as well?