How does Dallas compare to other teams around the NFL in making plays?

[Coogiguy03]

The obvious answer is going to be we don't compare at all, fine that's your opinion or not. Watching some of the games yesterday for example, the Bucs brought pressure on Hurts often with their front 4. We've discussed and bragged about our defense getting pressure and how we have Micah to get us a lot of the sacks and the blitz will work to get us sacks. Yet the Bucs did it with 4 guys, how do we even compare to that? When you look at what they do and what we do, it's miles away!!. Looking at teams COMMIT to the running game yesterday and not cave into passing the ball all the time worked wonders for their offense. Watching other teams passing game click like clock work as soon as the ball is snapped, BOOM WR's/TE's are open, how do we compare, why aren't we capable of having plays that are designed to get guys open quickly?


It's upsetting to see these teams do good things, yet in watching our team it seems like we struggle doing why they do so easily!! Please give your thoughts on how we compare......

 

[Reality]

For some reason on offense, McCarthy likes to play the short game by running the ball and calling horizontal, short and comeback routes, usualy within 10 yards.

At some point, he will switch back to aggressive playcalling and scoring will improve. It's why this team looks good in the fourth quarter when chasing the other team that's ahead.

It seems like he's trying to avoid mistakes by playing conservative, especially in the first half of games. Even when they throw down field, it tends to be sideline throws and I would not be surprised if a lot of their longer pass plays were actually shorter crossing routes (which they should run a lot more than those horrible comeback routes) or zone lapses in the defense.

 

[Creeper]

The obvious answer is going to be we don't compare at all, fine that's your opinion or not. Watching some of the games yesterday for example, the Bucs brought pressure on Hurts often with their front 4. We've discussed and bragged about our defense getting pressure and how we have Micah to get us a lot of the sacks and the blitz will work to get us sacks. Yet the Bucs did it with 4 guys, how do we even compare to that? When you look at what they do and what we do, it's miles away!!. Looking at teams COMMIT to the running game yesterday and not cave into passing the ball all the time worked wonders for their offense. Watching other teams passing game click like clock work as soon as the ball is snapped, BOOM WR's/TE's are open, how do we compare, why aren't we capable of having plays that are designed to get guys open quickly?


It's upsetting to see these teams do good things, yet in watching our team it seems like we struggle doing why they do so easily!! Please give your thoughts on how we compare......

As I said before the season losing Jason Kelce was going to hurt the Eagles, and it has. Cam Jurgens is Not nearly as good as Kelce. That downgrade hurts them. Sunday they were also without Lane Johnson. That had to hurt them too. Finally, they are playing Mekhi Becton at RG. He is a big dude, but slow and often injured. The Eagles were good because their offensive line was great. Now they are average and it puts more pressure on Hurts. At the same time, being without their top 2 WRs had to hurt them too. Imagine Dallas without just CeeDee Lamb.

The Eagles will get those guys back this week I think and we will see a very different team.

 

[Coogiguy03]

For some reason on offense, McCarthy likes to play the short game by running the ball and calling horizontal, short and comeback routes, usualy within 10 yards.

At some point, he will switch back to aggressive playcalling and scoring will improve. It's why this team looks good in the fourth quarter when chasing the other team that's ahead.

It seems like he's trying to avoid mistakes by playing conservative, especially in the first half of games. Even when they throw down field, it tends to be sideline throws and I would not be surprised if a lot of their longer pass plays were actually shorter crossing routes (which they should run a lot more than those horrible comeback routes) or zone lapses in the defense.

I had that thought too the other day that maybe they're trying to limit turnovers, but what good are we in doing that? The turnovers we have don't have to necessarily be giving the ball away but having mental mistakes getting penalties that cause us to have to get 3 instead of 6. There has to be a reason why we're running so many come back routes, is that the best route Dak can handle??? I mean for 60 million let's challenge ourselves a little better to be better

 

[Coogiguy03]

As I said before the season losing Jason Kelce was going to hurt the Eagles, and it has. Cam Jurgens is Not nearly as good as Kelce. That downgrade hurts them. Sunday they were also without Lane Johnson. That had to hurt them too. Finally, they are playing Mekhi Becton at RG. He is a big dude, but slow and often injured. The Eagles were good because their offensive line was great. Now they are average and it puts more pressure on Hurts. At the same time, being without their top 2 WRs had to hurt them too. Imagine Dallas without just CeeDee Lamb.

The Eagles will get those guys back this week I think and we will see a very different team.

The way our offense is set up, ceedee can be taken out easily but who else is going to help catch balls. Yes the injuries around the league have been high this year and they've been to a lot of top players. We'll see how these teams are once they're at full playing strength

 

[thunderpimp91]

No idea if the numbers actually support this or not, but it seems like most teams are rushing 4 this year and blitzing seems to be down. We are seeing more simulated pressures with teams crowding the LOS to confuse the OL, but ultimately just bringing four. I think the Cowboys are going to be at a disadvantage to pull this off due to their roster, despite this being what Zimmer has historically done best. You really only have one guys on the DL who is an actual threat to drop back into coverage, and hes your best rush guy in Parsons. The rest of the Cowboys ends are bigger bodies who are not the athletes to drop into coverage with any regularity. Linebackers for this team only have a combined 14 pass rush attempts, so Zimmer doesnt like brining these guys very often either....note that this does exclude Parsons for any rushes he may have from the LB spot. I think Overshown could be a weapon in rushing the passer, but we just dont have the aggressive DQ style defense from a season ago.


Offensively I think we simply lack the playmakers on that side of the football. We tend to see a conservative game called from McCarthy, which I think starts with a lack of confidence in the OL so we dont see many long developing plays. You also have an issue of teams being able to bracket Lamb, but otherwise play the Cowboys offense pretty straight up. Not saying there arent ways that this team could improve on offense, but its a lot harder to scheme guys open when you don't dictate to a defense what they can/can't do. The Cowboys desperately need a #2 receiver to emerge or to get the run game going. A lot of people will point to Ferguson as being that #2, but we continue to see that while he is an excellent receiver, hes limited to mostly underneath routes. Just 2 catches this year on passes of 10 yards or more. Last year he only had 15. 75% of his targets are all shallow throws or even behind the LOS. Great weapon, but he doesnt fit the profile.

Total guess here, but I think this likely plays into a lot of the things we don't see on offense as well, such as the pre snap motion. Motion is a weapon when done properly, but with motion also comes quick defensive changes that can create problems. 2 rookies on the OL who may need to process quickly, and we also have an offense that runs a decent amount of option routes where that motion can cause a team to go from Cover 3 to cover 2 instantly to create confusion. You go back to 2022 when Dak had that off year where his INTs were up and I haven't verified but have heard that there is a stat that over half of those came with pre snap motion.

 

[Blackspider214]

For some reason on offense, McCarthy likes to play the short game by running the ball and calling horizontal, short and comeback routes, usualy within 10 yards.

At some point, he will switch back to aggressive playcalling and scoring will improve. It's why this team looks good in the fourth quarter when chasing the other team that's ahead.

It seems like he's trying to avoid mistakes by playing conservative, especially in the first half of games. Even when they throw down field, it tends to be sideline throws and I would not be surprised if a lot of their longer pass plays were actually shorter crossing routes (which they should run a lot more than those horrible comeback routes) or zone lapses in the defense.

I agree with that but also, when teams have bigger leads, they play much more relaxed on defense. Very soft coverage, not a lot of blitzing and this makes it easier for the offense to move the ball. Same thing as the NBA. Bigger leads many times result in lesser defense and comebacks can happen.

It's an issue if your offense is only effective when the game is out of hand.

 

[Coogiguy03]

No idea if the numbers actually support this or not, but it seems like most teams are rushing 4 this year and blitzing seems to be down. We are seeing more simulated pressures with teams crowding the LOS to confuse the OL, but ultimately just bringing four. I think the Cowboys are going to be at a disadvantage to pull this off due to their roster, despite this being what Zimmer has historically done best. You really only have one guys on the DL who is an actual threat to drop back into coverage, and hes your best rush guy in Parsons. The rest of the Cowboys ends are bigger bodies who are not the athletes to drop into coverage with any regularity. Linebackers for this team only have a combined 14 pass rush attempts, so Zimmer doesnt like brining these guys very often either....note that this does exclude Parsons for any rushes he may have from the LB spot. I think Overshown could be a weapon in rushing the passer, but we just dont have the aggressive DQ style defense from a season ago.


Offensively I think we simply lack the playmakers on that side of the football. We tend to see a conservative game called from McCarthy, which I think starts with a lack of confidence in the OL so we dont see many long developing plays. You also have an issue of teams being able to bracket Lamb, but otherwise play the Cowboys offense pretty straight up. Not saying there arent ways that this team could improve on offense, but its a lot harder to scheme guys open when you don't dictate to a defense what they can/can't do. The Cowboys desperately need a #2 receiver to emerge or to get the run game going. A lot of people will point to Ferguson as being that #2, but we continue to see that while he is an excellent receiver, hes limited to mostly underneath routes. Just 2 catches this year on passes of 10 yards or more. Last year he only had 15. 75% of his targets are all shallow throws or even behind the LOS. Great weapon, but he doesnt fit the profile.

Total guess here, but I think this likely plays into a lot of the things we don't see on offense as well, such as the pre snap motion. Motion is a weapon when done properly, but with motion also comes quick defensive changes that can create problems. 2 rookies on the OL who may need to process quickly, and we also have an offense that runs a decent amount of option routes where that motion can cause a team to go from Cover 3 to cover 2 instantly to create confusion. You go back to 2022 when Dak had that off year where his INTs were up and I haven't verified but have heard that there is a stat that over half of those came with pre snap motion.

I hope I'm reading the last line right, you're saying with motion bad things happened?? How does that happen?

 

[Bobhaze]

I have been wondering this question for over a year…besides the Cowboys, what other NFL teams are running the “West Coast offense”? I cant think of any.

 

[Hadenough]

The obvious answer is going to be we don't compare at all, fine that's your opinion or not. Watching some of the games yesterday for example, the Bucs brought pressure on Hurts often with their front 4. We've discussed and bragged about our defense getting pressure and how we have Micah to get us a lot of the sacks and the blitz will work to get us sacks. Yet the Bucs did it with 4 guys, how do we even compare to that? When you look at what they do and what we do, it's miles away!!. Looking at teams COMMIT to the running game yesterday and not cave into passing the ball all the time worked wonders for their offense. Watching other teams passing game click like clock work as soon as the ball is snapped, BOOM WR's/TE's are open, how do we compare, why aren't we capable of having plays that are designed to get guys open quickly?


It's upsetting to see these teams do good things, yet in watching our team it seems like we struggle doing why they do so easily!! Please give your thoughts on how we compare......

Nobody and I mean nobody is afraid of Dak anymore. GB exposed the Cowboys and they are now going to have to prove that they are good. But they are too dysfunctional to be good. Players do not believe in their own QB. Micah has no idea what to do other than rush the passer. If you ask me they have ruined him by not grooming him to be a Fred Warner type LB. The players just seem to be playing as individuals as opposed to a team. So many things wrong with this team and Jerry has his fingers all over this team and coaching staff. No discipline on this team at all.

 

[thunderpimp91]

I hope I'm reading the last line right, you're saying with motion bad things happened?? How does that happen?

It certainly can lead to bad things. There are a lot of really good QBs who have said that they never liked pre snap motion, Payton Manning is one that immediately comes to mind. The issue with motion is that the defense moves too. If you have a veteran QB like Dak in theory you should be better equipped to read the defense pre snap and get your guys into the right play call to exploit that look. Presnap motion can take that advantage away....not saying it always does, it can be a very effective weapon when used properly, but it can last second cause the defense to slide their line as the strong side of the field now changed, or audible as that motion may have taken them out of the zone blitz they were in and forced to check back into base defense. When doing a lot of late pre snap motion you really need to have all 11 guys on offense on the same page, because assignments can change rapidly.

This is a pretty short but good read where Payton has a good quote on the subject.

 

[IceStar-D7]

I have been wondering this question for over a year…besides the Cowboys, what other NFL teams are running the “West Coast offense”? I cant think of any.

I wouldn't call what Dallas has been running the last 3 games any offense. West Coast-East Coast -or Southern Border offense

 

[KingCorcoran]

As I said before the season losing Jason Kelce was going to hurt the Eagles, and it has. Cam Jurgens is Not nearly as good as Kelce. That downgrade hurts them. Sunday they were also without Lane Johnson. That had to hurt them too. Finally, they are playing Mekhi Becton at RG. He is a big dude, but slow and often injured. The Eagles were good because their offensive line was great. Now they are average and it puts more pressure on Hurts. At the same time, being without their top 2 WRs had to hurt them too. Imagine Dallas without just CeeDee Lamb.

The Eagles will get those guys back this week I think and we will see a very different team.

Jurgens is a pretty good NFL center. Obviously no Lane Johnson is unfortunate, but every team has injuries and will have them all season long. I think the NFC is at a point where teams like the Eagles and Cowboys need to concern themselves more with the improvement of Washington, Tampa Bay, Minnesota than each other. The best thing about Washington getting better is the national sports media has a narrative fresher than how bad Dallas’ defense is and how bad Philadelphia’s head coach is. Every team has issues even if we rarely hear about them.

 

[Coogiguy03]

Nobody and I mean nobody is afraid of Dak anymore. GB exposed the Cowboys and they are now going to have to prove that they are good. But they are too dysfunctional to be good. Players do not believe in their own QB. Micah has no idea what to do other than rush the passer. If you ask me they have ruined him by not grooming him to be a Fred Warner type LB. The players just seem to be playing as individuals as opposed to a team. So many things wrong with this team and Jerry has his fingers all over this team and coaching staff. No discipline on this team at all.

and he keeps on paying them too doesn't he, what a guy!!! Lol Micah has no idea lol lol, all he does is run up the field, by the time he's trying to get back, the QB is gone up the field

 

[Coogiguy03]

It certainly can lead to bad things. There are a lot of really good QBs who have said that they never liked pre snap motion, Payton Manning is one that immediately comes to mind. The issue with motion is that the defense moves too. If you have a veteran QB like Dak in theory you should be better equipped to read the defense pre snap and get your guys into the right play call to exploit that look. Presnap motion can take that advantage away....not saying it always does, it can be a very effective weapon when used properly, but it can last second cause the defense to slide their line as the strong side of the field now changed, or audible as that motion may have taken them out of the zone blitz they were in and forced to check back into base defense. When doing a lot of late pre snap motion you really need to have all 11 guys on offense on the same page, because assignments can change rapidly.

This is a pretty short but good read where Payton has a good quote on the subject.

I don't even want to think about all of our guys being on the same page, I can just see those yellow things flying out of refs pockets even more

 

[thunderpimp91]

I don't even want to think about all of our guys being on the same page, I can just see those yellow things flying out of refs pockets even more

Yeah thats the other part that doesnt get talked about in terms of pre snap motion. It may get better as it's done more and more around the league, but false starts, delay of game, illegal formation, etc. have all gone up for teams that run high percentages of motion.

 

[Coogiguy03]

Yeah thats the other part that doesnt get talked about in terms of pre snap motion. It may get better as it's done more and more around the league, but false starts, delay of game, illegal formation, etc. have all gone up for teams that run high percentages of motion.

you seriously made me scratch my head!!!!

 

[StarOfGlory]

The obvious answer is going to be we don't compare at all, fine that's your opinion or not. Watching some of the games yesterday for example, the Bucs brought pressure on Hurts often with their front 4. We've discussed and bragged about our defense getting pressure and how we have Micah to get us a lot of the sacks and the blitz will work to get us sacks. Yet the Bucs did it with 4 guys, how do we even compare to that? When you look at what they do and what we do, it's miles away!!. Looking at teams COMMIT to the running game yesterday and not cave into passing the ball all the time worked wonders for their offense. Watching other teams passing game click like clock work as soon as the ball is snapped, BOOM WR's/TE's are open, how do we compare, why aren't we capable of having plays that are designed to get guys open quickly?


It's upsetting to see these teams do good things, yet in watching our team it seems like we struggle doing why they do so easily!! Please give your thoughts on how we compare......

I was at that Bucs game. Hurts usually had plenty of time to throw. It looked like the Bucs brought more pressure because Hurts holds the ball forever and tends to leave the pocket when he can’t find his first two reads. Put Aaron Rodgers on that team and they are at least 3-1, if not 4-0.

 

[StarOfGlory]

Jurgens is a pretty good NFL center. Obviously no Lane Johnson is unfortunate, but every team has injuries and will have them all season long. I think the NFC is at a point where teams like the Eagles and Cowboys need to concern themselves more with the improvement of Washington, Tampa Bay, Minnesota than each other. The best thing about Washington getting better is the national sports media has a narrative fresher than how bad Dallas’ defense is and how bad Philadelphia’s head coach is. Every team has issues even if we rarely hear about them.

As I stated in another thread, the Eagles o-line is just fine. I saw it in person. Hurts is the weak link, along with their Bozo the Clown head coach. Big Mike looks like Einstein compared to Sirianni.

 

[Creeper]

Jurgens is a pretty good NFL center. Obviously no Lane Johnson is unfortunate, but every team has injuries and will have them all season long. I think the NFC is at a point where teams like the Eagles and Cowboys need to concern themselves more with the improvement of Washington, Tampa Bay, Minnesota than each other. The best thing about Washington getting better is the national sports media has a narrative fresher than how bad Dallas’ defense is and how bad Philadelphia’s head coach is. Every team has issues even if we rarely hear about them.

Jurgens is okay, but there is a big dropoff from Kelce to him. Watch the Eagles run the Tush push now. Hurts goes behind Dickerson not Jurgens. It use to be Kelce getting that yard they needed. The Eagles have been hyping up Jurgens since they drafted him. He is not all they hyped him up to be.