I thought building offensive lines was supposed to be a Bill Parcells strength

[TruBlueCowboy]

I think of all those good Jets linemen that Parcells found in the low rounds, or that Giants team that would play smashmouth ball and I'm wondering what the heck happened to that Bill Parcells who more than anyone knew it started in the trenches?

Wahle is out there in his prime, and the Cowboys instead opt for Rivera and a nearly $10 million signing bonus, even though he is on the downside of his career.

The Cowboys are worried about their career backups on the offensive line, so what do they do? They spend a $5 million signing bonus on a career backup, the kind of guy you'd think they could find in the draft. Go read any Lions message board. There is no one crying that they lost Kosier. The sentiment is "good riddance, another one of Mooch's leftovers" in the Motor City.

Do you realize we gave $15 million in bonuses to a guy winding down in his career, and a perennial backup, when LeCharles Bentley just got a $12 million signing bonus?

Add that to the smash of a draft wen we got Jacob Rogers and Stephen Peterman in the 2nd and 3rd, and Rob Petitti who while he tried damn hard for a low round guy, he just doesn't look like much yet.

Al Johnson is the best we have to show after all these years with Parcells! Larry can't do it all. The man is getting old. C'mon Bill, fix this freaking line! Bledsoe is going to complete his tranformation into a human punching bag if we don't at least try to grab a Fabini or Mawae.

 

[burmafrd]

BP has made a couple of mistakes on the O line no doubt. But you are wrong about Wahle- he was determined to go elsewhere and we would have had to have spent a LOT more to get him here then we spent on RIvera- who looked at that time like a good addition. STILL might be. Rogers- he still has a slight chance to show something and Peterman we still do not know about. Those two could be considered the big mistakes- we shall see. But no one is perfect and everyone has busts- unfortunately it seems that ours are concentrated in one area.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

BP has made a couple of mistakes on the O line no doubt. But you are wrong about Wahle- he was determined to go elsewhere and we would have had to have spent a LOT more to get him here then we spent on RIvera- who looked at that time like a good addition. STILL might be. Rogers- he still has a slight chance to show something and Peterman we still do not know about. Those two could be considered the big mistakes- we shall see. But no one is perfect and everyone has busts- unfortunately it seems that ours are concentrated in one area.

Ya know what, if Wahle and even Bentley were determined to go elsewhere, I can accept that. The Cowboys ain't what they used to be. A lot of the younger players have no idea that this is a storied franchise. What I can't accept is what we've grabbed as an alternative. Might as well spend some first draft picks if this is the best we can do. :

 

[Zaxor]

I think of all those good Jets linemen that Parcells found in the low rounds, or that Giants team that would play smashmouth ball and I'm wondering what the heck happened to that Bill Parcells who more than anyone knew it started in the trenches?

Wahle is out there in his prime, and the Cowboys instead opt for Rivera and a nearly $10 million signing bonus, even though he is on the downside of his career.

The Cowboys are worried about their career backups on the offensive line, so what do they do? They spend a $5 million signing bonus on a career backup, the kind of guy you'd think they could find in the draft. Go read any Lions message board. There is no one crying that they lost Kosier. The sentiment is "good riddance, another one of Mooch's leftovers" in the Motor City.

Do you realize we gave $15 million in bonuses to a guy winding down in his career, and a perennial backup, when LeCharles Bentley just got a $12 million signing bonus?

Add that to the smash of a draft wen we got Jacob Rogers and Stephen Peterman in the 2nd and 3rd, and Rob Petitti who while he tried damn hard for a low round guy, he just doesn't look like much yet.

Al Johnson is the best we have to show after all these years with Parcells! Larry can't do it all. The man is getting old. C'mon Bill, fix this freaking line! Bledsoe is going to complete his tranformation into a human punching bag if we don't at least try to grab a Fabini or Mawae.

who was that? Kosier? If so he was not a backup

 

[burmafrd]

Rivera was the second best guard out there- probably nearly equal to Wahle as a guard; so we took the best we could get AT THE TIME. Now as regards Bentley- that was a real steep price to pay. BP and JJ made the decision that the need was not THAT great at center. I wanted Bentley real bad - and I would have paid that price- BUT what do I know about what else is going on.
By the way- FA AIN'T DONE YET.

 

[burmafrd]

Now as regards Kosier- he is worth that since he can play 4 out of 5 positions on the ling- he has STARTED at them. That kind of flexibility is just about unheard of- and that ALONE is worth some serious change to BP.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

who was that? Kosier? If so he was not a backup

Yeah he is. He's just a versatile player who will give ya average play at many positions. Teams just plug him into whatever holes they have. He's a useful backup, I'll give ya that, put not the kind of guy I want to spend $15 million on. I see Rob Petitti having a career like him in a few years.

 

[Zaxor]

Yeah he is. He's just a versatile player who will give ya average play at many positions. Teams just plug him into whatever holes they have. He's a useful backup, I'll give ya that, put not the kind of guy I want to spend $15 million on. I see Rob Petitti having a career like him in a few years.

GAMES PLAYED
Year Team G GS
2002 San Francisco 49ers 15 1
2003 San Francisco 49ers 16 12
2004 San Francisco 49ers 16 16
2005 Detroit Lions 16 11
TOTAL 63 40

he has played in 63 games and STARTED 40 of them...THAT is not a backup...he has only been in the league 4 years so 16x4 =64 maximum total games he could have started

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

he has played in 63 games and STARTED 40 of them...THAT is not a backup...he has only been in the league 4 years so 16x4 =64 maximum total games he could have started

Those are not the stats of a guy who clearly wins the starting job. Some of those seasons, he played up to three positions on the line. I don't think he was even supposed to be a starter on Detroit. Just won the job by default, sort of like how Rob Petitti did in Dallas.

 

[Zaxor]

Those are not the stats of a guy who clearly wins the starting job. Some of those seasons, he played up to three positions on the line. I don't think he was even supposed to be a starter on Detroit. Just won the job by default, sort of like how Rob Petitti did in Dallas.

WHAT!!!??? Rob beat the guy out who had the job the year before

...Tucker.

WR: 11 Roy Williams 88 Mike Williams (R) 18 Eddie Drummond
LT: 76 Jeff Backus
LG: 69 Kyle Kosier 64 Rick DeMulling
C: 51 Dominic Raiola 63 Brock Gutierrez
RG: 65 Damien Woody
RT: 79 Kelly Butler 71 Victor Rogers
TE: 81 Marcus Pollard 82 Casey FitzSimmons 49 Sean McHugh
WR: 10 Scottie Vines 80 Charles Rogers 16 Troy Edwards
QB: 3 Joey Harrington 9 Dan Orlovsky (R) 5 Jeff Garcia
FB: 30 Cory Schlesinger 27 Paul Smith
HB: 34 Kevin Jones 24 Shawn Bryson 21 Artose Pinner

and here is the lions depth chart...he was a starter

 

[CrazyCowboy]

If we win this year......it will cure everything!

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

WHAT!!!??? Rob beat the guy out who had the year before...Tucker.

Rob was supposed to be learning on the bench while we finally watched the legend known as Jacob Rogers make his mark in the NFL. What could have been I tell ya, what could have been.... :blind:

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

WHAT!!!??? Rob beat the guy out who had the job the year before

...Tucker.

and here is the lions depth chart...he was a starter

Rick DeMulling was the starter. He sucked. Our guy was the lesser of the two evils.

 

[Zaxor]

Rick DeMulling was the starter. He sucked. Our guy was the lesser of the two evils.

be that as it may.. he easily became our best guard

 

[kingwhicker]

Yeah he is. He's just a versatile player who will give ya average play at many positions. Teams just plug him into whatever holes they have. He's a useful backup, I'll give ya that, put not the kind of guy I want to spend $15 million on. I see Rob Petitti having a career like him in a few years.

He was a starter on inarguably one of the worst OLs in the league last year, so color me unimpressed also. Seems like a lot of money for a dude like that, versatile or not.

And I love how people try to justify BP's sorry OL record here. In his time here, he has done a bangup job with the OL

 

[Cowboys&Caps]

I think of all those good Jets linemen that Parcells found in the low rounds, or that Giants team that would play smashmouth ball and I'm wondering what the heck happened to that Bill Parcells who more than anyone knew it started in the trenches?

Wahle is out there in his prime, and the Cowboys instead opt for Rivera and a nearly $10 million signing bonus, even though he is on the downside of his career.

The Cowboys are worried about their career backups on the offensive line, so what do they do? They spend a $5 million signing bonus on a career backup, the kind of guy you'd think they could find in the draft. Go read any Lions message board. There is no one crying that they lost Kosier. The sentiment is "good riddance, another one of Mooch's leftovers" in the Motor City.

Do you realize we gave $15 million in bonuses to a guy winding down in his career, and a perennial backup, when LeCharles Bentley just got a $12 million signing bonus?

Add that to the smash of a draft wen we got Jacob Rogers and Stephen Peterman in the 2nd and 3rd, and Rob Petitti who while he tried damn hard for a low round guy, he just doesn't look like much yet.

Al Johnson is the best we have to show after all these years with Parcells! Larry can't do it all. The man is getting old. C'mon Bill, fix this freaking line! Bledsoe is going to complete his tranformation into a human punching bag if we don't at least try to grab a Fabini or Mawae.

Its far too early to tell on most of these guys

Peterman- Has shown some good things, but hasn't really been given a chance yet. Give him two more years as a solid backup before you expect him to play.

Rogers- Has dissapointed some with his decision to have surgery, but he was going to start(and looking very good) in just his second year in the NFL. He will start at right tackle this year unless we sign a good tackle(runyan, ashworth).

Pettiti- Has shown me great things! He came in as a rooking started 16 games which for our team is a miracle, cuz we love injuries. Give him two or three more years and I certainly think he will be a probowler.

Rivera- He was dominant in Green Bay where he had complete control of the system, just wait untill he is healthy(back), and knows our system(this season cuz the dude is smart). Rivera will dominate!

I remember one guy we signed in parcells first year he was a tackle from the jets and he just got hurt and had knee problems, a disaster.

give parcells picks some time i expect most to mature it takes linemen some time.

 

[dbair1967]

He was a starter on inarguably one of the worst OLs in the league last year, so color me unimpressed also. Seems like a lot of money for a dude like that, versatile or not.

And I love how people try to justify BP's sorry OL record here. In his time here, he has done a bangup job with the OL

I agree...put me down as extremely unimpressed as well

as TBC just said, we paid 15 mils in bonuses for two journeymen type players(one of who, Rivera has absolutely NO upside because of age and injury) when 12 mils in signing bonus would have landed arguably the best interior OL in the league, who is just entering his prime...he's drafted several losers on the OL as well, and to date we've done nothing yet to fix the mammoth hole at RT (in 3+ yrs now)

David

 

[Frosty]

Well he's a cowboys Now! Its time to support. He'll show his worthyness or lack of, soon enough. Lets just make believe that someone who no's more than us has did there homework!

 

[Typhus]

Those are not the stats of a guy who clearly wins the starting job. Some of those seasons, he played up to three positions on the line. I don't think he was even supposed to be a starter on Detroit. Just won the job by default, sort of like how Rob Petitti did in Dallas.

Look, no disrespect, but what I feel alot of people are missing out on is precisely the fact that Kosier played the "utility" role.

The label "utility" doesnt mean that Kosier was a marginal player, but quite the opposite, in that he had the physical and mental capacity to be played wherever the Mooch needed him.

A guy like Kosier in BP's world is more of a comodity in the sence that you can keep one less OL, and one more LB'r.

 

[dbair1967]

Its far too early to tell on most of these guys

Peterman- Has shown some good things, but hasn't really been given a chance yet. Give him two more years as a solid backup before you expect him to play.

Rogers- Has dissapointed some with his decision to have surgery, but he was going to start(and looking very good) in just his second year in the NFL. He will start at right tackle this year unless we sign a good tackle(runyan, ashworth).

Pettiti- Has shown me great things! He came in as a rooking started 16 games which for our team is a miracle, cuz we love injuries. Give him two or three more years and I certainly think he will be a probowler.

Rivera- He was dominant in Green Bay where he had complete control of the system, just wait untill he is healthy(back), and knows our system(this season cuz the dude is smart). Rivera will dominate!

I remember one guy we signed in parcells first year he was a tackle from the jets and he just got hurt and had knee problems, a disaster.

give parcells picks some time i expect most to mature it takes linemen some time.

let me guess...you hang with Ricky Williams alot huh?

David