Iconic Songs, a Question for Rap Fans In Particular

[Hostile]

Every genre of music has songs that become iconic, or timeless. The kind of song that 20 years from now will still be appreciated by fans of that genre.

For instance, Michael Jackson's "Thriller" for Hip Hop. In fact many of his songs can be called that.

In country I would say an example is "Amarillo by Morning" by George Strait. In Hard Rock perhaps "Crazy Train" by Ozzy Osbourne.

I know there are many other examples across these 3 genres. I am just using these as examples, not claiming them to be the best ever for those genres.

I am wondering, what Rap songs will be iconic in 20 years? I do not know much about the genre because I do not like Rap music for the most part. I'm not a fan of heavy beats or rhymes for the sake of rhyming. I like singing, so I am also not a fan of Death Metal or whatever they call that stuff where the singer croaks and screeches the words either. I like hearing voices hit musical notes. That is what I like.

At one time I think "Can't Tough This" by M.C. Hammer might have qualified, but I honestly do not know now because it seems to me that Rappers of his era and success are now punch lines. Maybe I have that wrong, but it seems to me from the outside that Rap fans discard the past to focus on right now. If I am wrong, please correct me.

It has appeared to me that the most revered Rapper is Tupac Shakur. I confess, I do not know one single song of his. Will his music be iconic? Eminem? Someone else? Anyone else? I honestly do not know and I am asking.

Please note, I am not posting this to tear down the genre. So I apologize to Rap fans if anyone comes in here just to bash Rap music and say it sucks. As a country music fan I get a lot of that too and trust me, I don't care for it either. It is a gutless tactic by people who do that.

I asked this question of friend of mine who is a Rap fan. Together we had a good laugh as he said he 2 songs he thinks most people will still love are "Baby Got Back" by Sir Mix-a-lot and "Wild Thing" by Tone Loc. Maybe he's right and it comes down to songs that simply make us smile.

I'm interested in your opinions and will share them with my friend if I get the chance.

 

[Wimbo]

Together we had a good laugh as he said he 2 songs he thinks most people will still love are "Baby Got Back" by Sir Mix-a-lot and "Wild Thing" by Tone Loc.

Interesting point on Tone Loc's "Wild Thing"... The song was built around guitar and drum samples from the Van Halen song, "Jamie's Crying". You can listen to them side by side here: http://www.whosampled.com/sample/view/234/Tone%20Loc-Wild%20Thing_Van%20Halen-Jamie%27s%20Cryin%27/

Eddie Van Halen reportedly flipped out when he heard this had been done.

I went to a party this year where the band played these 2 songs intertwined with each other. They played the Van Halen chorus with the Tone Loc verses. It actually worked very well.

 

[TheCount]

Wow. Baby Got Back and Wild Thing.

There are a slew of classic hip hop songs, obviously if one isn't into the genre to begin with, they won't recognize a classic. I couldn't name 10 classic country songs, but at least I know better than to suggest Achy Breaky Heart just because it was popular.

But if you want a few, in no order whatsoever:

Fight The Power - Public Enemy
Planet Rock - Afrika Bambaataa
Keep Ya Head Up - Tupac
Juicy - Notorious BIG
I Used To Love Her - Common
Award Tour - Tribe Called Quest
Sabotage - Beastie Boys
Rappers Delight - Sugar Hill Gang
Lose Yourself - Eminem
Walk This Way - Run DMC
Hip Hop - Dead Prez
Top Billin - Audio Two

And that's just a few off the top of my head. Hip Hop has been around for much longer than 20 years at this point, so there are recognized classics that meet that criteria.

 

[Temo]

Great thread topic.

First thing, "Thriller" is most definitely pop, not hip-hop.

Second, in terms of "iconic songs", it almost HAS TO be from artists that achieved commercial fame. Iconic doesn't mean "best", it means... well... iconic. The two songs your friend mentioned just don't fit the bill.

Third, I'm actually only a (very) casual fan of mainstream rap/hip hop. And that's not me being a music elitist (seriously, I hate those people), but it seems like a lot of mainstream urban music these days is just dance/club music-- which has it's place, but is definitely not the pinnacle of the art-form.

I listen to a lot more mainstream alternative rock and indie rock (the bigger indie rock bands, which I know sounds weird, but I don't have the time to keep up with the lesser known artists). So everything I mention here is from that vantage point. But anyway, here are the hip hop songs that I'll always remember, and think most hip-hop fans will always remember:

Lose Yourself - Eminem
Juicy- Biggie
California Love- 2Pac
Forgot about Dre- Dre
99 Problems- Jay-Z

Again not necessarily the best songs, just the most iconic (for instance, I think 2Pac's best song was "Dear Mama", and it might iconic, but not as much as "California Love").

 

[Temo]

Fight The Power - Public Enemy
Planet Rock - Afrika Bambaataa
Keep Ya Head Up - Tupac
Juicy - Notorious BIG
I Used To Love Her - Common
Award Tour - Tribe Called Quest
Sabotage - Beastie Boys
Rappers Delight - Sugar Hill Gang
Lose Yourself - Eminem
Walk This Way - Run DMC
Hip Hop - Dead Prez
Top Billin - Audio Two

And that's just a few off the top of my head. Hip Hop has been around for much longer than 20 years at this point, so there are recognized classics that meet that criteria.

I feel like you went a bit more into "best" rather than "iconic". The two songs I would differ with you on is "Walk This Way", which is a great song but seems to have been co-opted now, and "Rappers Delight", which doesn't seem to have the same popularity as the other songs now.

 

[Hostile]

I apologize for mixing hip hop and rap. I was unaware they were technically 2 different genres. It was an honest mistake on my part.

 

[TheCount]

I feel like you went a bit more into "best" rather than "iconic". The two songs I would differ with you on is "Walk This Way", which is a great song but seems to have been co-opted now, and "Rappers Delight", which doesn't seem to have the same popularity as the other songs now.

To me, iconic music is good music. I wasn't naming what I thought was the best hip hop, Rapper's Delight is mostly nonsense but there's nothing more iconic when it comes to hip hop.

I apologize for mixing hip hop and rap. I was unaware they were technically 2 different genres. It was an honest mistake on my part.

You didn't mix them up and they aren't different genres, so there's no need to apologize. Rap is a subset of Hip Hop. Hip-Hop is a form of culture, not just a form of music. Hip-Hop has been defined as four elements, which I won't get into since it's not really relevant to the conversation, but music is just part of it.

 

[Hostile]

I forgot that my friend also said The Beastie Boys "Fight For Your Right to Party" was his best example. I knew there was a 3rd, I just couldn't remember what it was.

Oh and he also said "Word Up" by Cameo just because he loves the video.

 

[jcollins28]

Iconic song for rap? Just pick any song off of Swollen Members Black Magic cd. The whole cd is that good.

 

[Temo]

To me, iconic music is good music. I wasn't naming what I thought was the best hip hop, Rapper's Delight is mostly nonsense but there's nothing more iconic when it comes to hip hop.

Well, yea it almost has to be good if it's iconic.

 

[CowboyDan]

You guys have named most of them....and if I had to pick 1, my vote is for Fight the Power by PE, but here's a few honorable mentions:

[youtube]42b_XZ03bL4[/youtube]

[youtube]-fARpKl1Bsc&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]KYWYwg_8hMg&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]zhiqosvOO1c&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]ThlhSnRk21E[/youtube]

 

[Danny White]

I don't know how you can get more iconic than this:

[youtube]rog8ou-ZepE&ob=av2e[/youtube]

 

[The Fonz]

How about

Bust A Move by Young MC
Me Myself and I by De La Soul
I've Got The power by Snap
freaks come out night by Whodini
Ain't No Half Steppin byBig Daddy Kane

also don't forget

The Sugar Hill Gang
Kool Moe Dee
Digital Underground
Biz Markie
Schooly D
DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince

and so many more

 

[Hostile]

I don't know how you can get more iconic than this:

[youtube]rog8ou-ZepE&ob=av2e[/youtube]

Actually, this song is what sparked our conversation that led to me posting this thread. He made a comment about building someone up just to tear them down. He said it was a Rap culture credo that does not extend to Country music. He is not a Country fan and I am not a Rap fan. He said that before Vanilla Ice made it big if you went to any club where people were rapping he always got the biggest cheers, but as soon as he got commercial, he was hated. It struck me, that's why I ask.

 

[Temo]

Actually, this song is what sparked our conversation that led to me posting this thread. He made a comment about building someone up just to tear them down. He said it was a Rap culture credo that does not extend to Country music. He is not a Country fan and I am not a Rap fan. He said that before Vanilla Ice made it big if you went to any club where people were rapping he always got the biggest cheers, but as soon as he got commercial, he was hated. It struck me, that's why I ask.

There's always more hype in hip-hop than in other music genres, that might explain it. Indie and alternative rock is obviously like that too ("I liked them before they sold out!). Alternatively, there seems to be almost no hype in country (I guess Carrie Underwood might be the most hyped, with the American Idol promotional wagon).

But I mean, I don't think Vanilla Ice was ever considered an "artist". He was a guy with a gimmick (hey, a white guy in a black guy's world! Whoa!). You can always tell apart the build-up for the no-talent hacks apart from the real artists. Like Justin Beiber is really famous now (with his own gimmick), but I doubt anyone thinks his music will stick. And to choose a more related example, Soulja boy was popular for a while (his gimmick being the dance), but everyone knew what that was all about.

 

[rkell87]

you guys have named most of them, so im going to suggest

wanna be a baller-lil troy

gangsters paradise-coolio

it was a good day-ice cube

OPP-naughty by nature

 

[Vintage]

Hypnotize - Biggie
Changes - Tupac
F the Police - NWA
Life's a ***** - Nas (actually, the whole album is iconic)
Ether is pretty inconic too.

 

[bsheeern]

Ruff ryders anthem- DMX
What's my name-Snoop Dogg
Sometimes I rhyme slow.....-Nice and Smooth
Crossroads-bone thugs n harmony

Just to add a few

 

[JustDezIt]

Hypnotize - Biggie
Changes - Tupac
F the Police - NWA
Life's a ***** - Nas (actually, the whole album is iconic)
Ether is pretty inconic too.

i missed this thread until now, but i would have to say changes is the first song that came to mind.

"Misplaced hate brings digrace to races"


"You gotta make a change. Its time for us as a people to start making some changes, lets change the way we eat, lets change the way we live, and lets change the way we treat each other. You see the old way wasn't working so its on US, to do what we gotta do to survive."

2pac is already iconic, his music spread worldwide, he represented a genre and his legacy will never die. I put him above all the other rappers in my book because he brought social issues to light while at the same time making classic music that was loved by millions and lives on strong even 15 ear after his passing. Concious thug, which may seem like a contradiction to some but other will understand. Dear Mama is another classic record that almost rap fans would know.

"Yes I am gonna say that I'm a thug, that's because I came from the gutter and I'm still here. I'm not saying i'm a thug because i want to rob you and rape people and things."

Personally, i always considered cant touch this and ice ice baby more of pop songs.

"To me, it really troubling because I took over at that's successful- Marky Mark, Hammer, Vanilla Ice, New Kids On The Block selling twenty-two million copies, and I want that so badly, but I can't do that. I would be wrong to do that, knowing what I know and having the brain that I have, for me to even go and write some simple **** would be wrong even though I would get paid and I would get more people's money. I would rather leave something so that when people pick up 2pacalypse Now or any of my other albums in 1999, they'll go, ****! Brothers had it hard back in the day, but brother were working it out."

Hos, if ya got about 6 minutes to kill check out this interview. To me it shows him more in the light that I view him as opposed to some who judge without listening.

[youtube]vigPk9n5-50[/youtube]

"Measure a man by his actions fully, from the beginning to the end. Don't take a piece out of my life or a song out of my music and say this is what I'm about, because you know better than that."

"The only thing that can kill me is death, that's the only thing that can ever stop me, is death, and even then my music will live forever."


Crossroads by Bone thugs is another timeless classic. Was a wildly popular song, while its focus is such a sad topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9IXAJg4Vm0

God bless you workin on a plan to heaven
follow the Lord all 24/7 days
God is who we praise even though the devils all up in my face.
He keepin me safe and in my place
say grace to the gates we race

Now follow me roll stroll whether it's hell or it's heaven
let's come take a visit of the people that's long gone they rest
Wally, Eazy, Terry, Boo
And still keepin up wit they family
Exactly how many days we got lastin while you laughin we passin'
passin' away
God rest our souls cause I know I might meet you up at the crossroads
Yall know ya forever got love from
Bone Thugs baby

Lil E-Z long gone,
really wish he could come home
But when it's time to die gotta go bye bye
all 'lil thug could do was cry, cry
Why'd they kill my dog?
**** man I miss my Uncle Charles yall
he shouldn't be gone
in front of his home
what they did to Boo was wrong ohhhhhh (wrong, wrong)
was so wrong gotta hold on, gotta stay strong,
when the day come better believe Bone got a shoulder you can lean on,
lean on

Like when this type of topic comes thru this section.

 

[JustDezIt]

At one time I think "Can't Tough This" by M.C. Hammer might have qualified, but I honestly do not know now because it seems to me that Rappers of his era and success are now punch lines.

The punchline thing is on point, in the later 2000's to present era of rap this seems to be the main focus when a rapper wants to display his lyrical ability. It has always been part of the music, but rappers used to incorporate more into the music then just punchlines throughtout the whole song. The emphasis is seems to be now not so much the message in the music as just having a slick saying. I wont discredit this kind of rap but i will just say that it is a very hollow version of rap to me with not much substance. It seems in this aspect rap music has taken a turn for the worse, but it is most likely the natural evolution of the genre. It is yet to be seen who will end up as the icons of the future of rap.

Maybe I have that wrong, but it seems to me from the outside that Rap fans discard the past to focus on right now. If I am wrong, please correct me.

You seem to have hit the nail on the head with this one, but i would attribute this phenomenon more to the age of the rap listener. its kinda like music in general, where younger fans think the music of their time is always better then what has come before them. Real fans of the genre respect all of the different era's for the impact they had on that point in history, but thenewer genrations to some extent direspect the past because they can view it in the time capsule of when it occured. Like a younger fan might say that lil wayne is a better rapper then 2pac because he has slicker wordplay, nto taking into account how much of an impact he had in his day and the postivies messages incorporated in the music.