I've always wondered why they don't do penalties like this

[Reverend Conehead]

If there's a 5-yard penalty on the defense, but a 15-yard penalty on the offense, the penalties offset. However, I've always thought that 15 minus 5 equals 10. I'm pretty sure that's right. My math teacher said it was anyway. Therefore, in a case like this, shouldn't the offense be penalized 10 yards? I've always thought penalties should only offset if they're for the same number of yards. I've also wondered why they don't enforce all penalties. For example, if the defense commits a neutral zone infraction as well as illegal contact, that's two 5-yard penalties equaling ten yards. So they should be penalized 10 yards. Instead, the offense picks just one, and they get 5 yards. The way they do it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Reality]

From the NFL rules ..

SECTION 5 - FOULS BY BOTH TEAMS (DOUBLE FOULS)​

​

ARTICLE 1. DOUBLE FOUL WITHOUT CHANGE OF POSSESSION​

​

If there is a Double Foul (3-14-1-e) during a down in which there is not a change of possession, the penalties are offset, and the down is replayed at the previous spot. If it is a scrimmage down, the number of the next down and the line to gain is the same as for the down in which the fouls occurred.​

​

Exceptions:​

• If one or more fouls by one team includes a 15-yard penalty, and the penalty for the foul or fouls committed by the other team is for a five-yard penalty without an automatic First Down, a loss of down, or a 10-second runoff (15 yards versus five yards), or that is not a spot foul, the 15-yard penalty is enforced from the previous spot, and the five-yard penalty is disregarded. Five vs. 15 enforcement cannot be declined by the team that committed the minor foul, except as described in (2) below. See 4-8-2-h and 14-4-9-Item 3-Exc. 1 for dead ball fouls at the end of a half.
  
  
• If one of the fouls is a Dead Ball Foul for delay of game for spiking the ball and the opponent’s foul is a Live Ball Foul, the team that committed the delay of game foul, in addition to Article 1 above, will have the option to decline the foul committed by its opponent and be assessed the penalty for delay from the dead-ball spot.
  
  
• If both fouls are Dead Ball Fouls or are treated as such (14-4-9), the penalties are offset, and the ball is next put in play at the succeeding spot, unless the Dead Ball fouls occur after the ball has been made ready for play, in which case 5 vs. 15 enforcement applies.

As the rules state above, sometimes the 5-yard penalty (depending on the type of penalty) is disregarded when the other team is flagged for a 15-yard penalty.

That said, you cannot really compare penalties based on yardage because 5-yard penalties are the minimum pre-defined yardage numbers and 15-yard penalties are the max pre-defined yardage penalties.

Of course there are non-predefined yardage penalties such as pass interference, but sometimes a player may commit a penalty as a direct result of the penalty the other team committed prior to that in the same play.

If they were going to enforce both penalties, the NFL would need to increase the yardage of various 15-yard penalties to reflect the seriousness of those as compared to lining up offsides, illegal contact, etc.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

From the NFL rules ..

SECTION 5 - FOULS BY BOTH TEAMS (DOUBLE FOULS)​

​

ARTICLE 1. DOUBLE FOUL WITHOUT CHANGE OF POSSESSION​

​

If there is a Double Foul (3-14-1-e) during a down in which there is not a change of possession, the penalties are offset, and the down is replayed at the previous spot. If it is a scrimmage down, the number of the next down and the line to gain is the same as for the down in which the fouls occurred.​

​

Exceptions:​

• If one or more fouls by one team includes a 15-yard penalty, and the penalty for the foul or fouls committed by the other team is for a five-yard penalty without an automatic First Down, a loss of down, or a 10-second runoff (15 yards versus five yards), or that is not a spot foul, the 15-yard penalty is enforced from the previous spot, and the five-yard penalty is disregarded. Five vs. 15 enforcement cannot be declined by the team that committed the minor foul, except as described in (2) below. See 4-8-2-h and 14-4-9-Item 3-Exc. 1 for dead ball fouls at the end of a half.
  
  
• If one of the fouls is a Dead Ball Foul for delay of game for spiking the ball and the opponent’s foul is a Live Ball Foul, the team that committed the delay of game foul, in addition to Article 1 above, will have the option to decline the foul committed by its opponent and be assessed the penalty for delay from the dead-ball spot.
  
  
• If both fouls are Dead Ball Fouls or are treated as such (14-4-9), the penalties are offset, and the ball is next put in play at the succeeding spot, unless the Dead Ball fouls occur after the ball has been made ready for play, in which case 5 vs. 15 enforcement applies.

As the rules state above, sometimes the 5-yard penalty (depending on the type of penalty) is disregarded when the other team is flagged for a 15-yard penalty.

That said, you cannot really compare penalties based on yardage because 5-yard penalties are the minimum pre-defined yardage numbers and 15-yard penalties are the max pre-defined yardage penalties.

Of course there are non-predefined yardage penalties such as pass interference, but sometimes a player may commit a penalty as a direct result of the penalty the other team committed prior to that in the same play.

If they were going to enforce both penalties, the NFL would need to increase the yardage of various 15-yard penalties to reflect the seriousness of those as compared to lining up offsides, illegal contact, etc.

Thanks for the info. It's way more complicated than I thought it was.

 

[john van brocklin]

If there's a 5-yard penalty on the defense, but a 15-yard penalty on the offense, the penalties offset. However, I've always thought that 15 minus 5 equals 10. I'm pretty sure that's right. My math teacher said it was anyway. Therefore, in a case like this, shouldn't the offense be penalized 10 yards? I've always thought penalties should only offset if they're for the same number of yards. I've also wondered why they don't enforce all penalties. For example, if the defense commits a neutral zone infraction as well as illegal contact, that's two 5-yard penalties equaling ten yards. So they should be penalized 10 yards. Instead, the offense picks just one, and they get 5 yards. The way they do it doesn't make sense to me.

Quit being logical !
It's not allowed around these parts !

 

[Pompey-Cowboy]

Wow, is the system not confusing enough already?

 

[nate dizzle]

How much do you want to throw on these poor refs. Between trying to make sure that they are calling games in just the right way to cover Vegas or the bettors that are paying them to fix the games, and also trying to follow the script given to them by the NFL Commissioner, you also want them to do math? Come on man, have mercy!

 

[Reverend Conehead]

How much do you want to throw on these poor refs. Between trying to make sure that they are calling games in just the right way to cover Vegas or the bettors that are paying them to fix the games, and also trying to follow the script given to them by the NFL Commissioner, you also want them to do math? Come on man, have mercy!

I think they're fully capable of doing math equations like 15 - 5. I would not be asking them to do trig.

 

[Chuck 54]

The one I don’t get is why on some plays, a penalty is either accepted or not, but on other plays, like kicks, a penalty can be enforced on the next play.

 

[Momanpr100]

Let's not confuse the refs any more. I like the offsetting penalties

 

[nate dizzle]

I think they're fully capable of doing math equations like 15 - 5. I would not be asking them to do trig.

I need them concentrating on making sure my parlay hits.

 

[Jake]

If there's a 5-yard penalty on the defense, but a 15-yard penalty on the offense, the penalties offset. However, I've always thought that 15 minus 5 equals 10. I'm pretty sure that's right. My math teacher said it was anyway. Therefore, in a case like this, shouldn't the offense be penalized 10 yards? I've always thought penalties should only offset if they're for the same number of yards. I've also wondered why they don't enforce all penalties. For example, if the defense commits a neutral zone infraction as well as illegal contact, that's two 5-yard penalties equaling ten yards. So they should be penalized 10 yards. Instead, the offense picks just one, and they get 5 yards. The way they do it doesn't make sense to me.

The method you described is how penalties are administered in the CFL. Looking at this thread that's apparently too complicated for the NFL.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

The method you described is how penalties are administered in the CFL. Looking at this thread that's apparently too complicated for the NFL.

Hey, if the CFL comes up with an idea that works, go with it. There could be some interesting things happen. For example, there's defensive pass interference resulting in a 32-yard spot foul. But wait, there's also a facemasking penalty on the offense. In today's NFL, those offset. However, under this proposed system, it's that 32-yard interference penalty minus the 15 yards for the facemask. Therefore, 17 yards, instead of 32, is marked off against the defense.

 

[Praxit]

..oh, just wait IF they enforce Hip Drop tackle. Yikes! 80 penalties a game.

People will boycott NFL for sure.

 

[ThatJerryKid]

I would personally just eliminated all penalties. Everything is legal. That would be so fun to watch.

 

[nalam]

Thanks for the info. It's way more complicated than I thought it was.

Yet another example of too much complication leading to interpretation by different crews. They need to simplify and make it clear cut , to remove subjectiveness , otherwise Refs will have influence how the game turns out ( by Vegas directions) . even after so much time , the ” Catch” rule is confusing , like on the schoon TD removed against Philly.

They wont consider the catch complete until the ball carrier survives the ground and so , the position of ball at completion of catch should count , instead they went for knee hitting (which was caused by PI )

 

[nathanlt]

If there's a 5-yard penalty on the defense, but a 15-yard penalty on the offense, the penalties offset. However, I've always thought that 15 minus 5 equals 10. I'm pretty sure that's right. My math teacher said it was anyway. Therefore, in a case like this, shouldn't the offense be penalized 10 yards? I've always thought penalties should only offset if they're for the same number of yards. I've also wondered why they don't enforce all penalties. For example, if the defense commits a neutral zone infraction as well as illegal contact, that's two 5-yard penalties equaling ten yards. So they should be penalized 10 yards. Instead, the offense picks just one, and they get 5 yards. The way they do it doesn't make sense to me.

I see what you're saying. If there's a targeting penalty, just hope that other team committed a minor infraction so that you as the player don't get disqualified from the game. Free targeting!!!

 

[bigdnlaca]

Off topic but I would like the not so obvious false starts penalties to not be a dead ball penalty. We have seen plays where defense made a play only for the play to not count due to a false start.

My thinking is that if it is a free play for the offense for defensive offsides, why not make it a free play for the defense for the false start.

 

[ghst187]

I think a penalty essentially nullifies the play rather than tit for tat minus tut.

 

[JD_KaPow]

From the NFL rules ..

SECTION 5 - FOULS BY BOTH TEAMS (DOUBLE FOULS)​

​

ARTICLE 1. DOUBLE FOUL WITHOUT CHANGE OF POSSESSION​

​

If there is a Double Foul (3-14-1-e) during a down in which there is not a change of possession, the penalties are offset, and the down is replayed at the previous spot. If it is a scrimmage down, the number of the next down and the line to gain is the same as for the down in which the fouls occurred.​

​

Exceptions:​

• If one or more fouls by one team includes a 15-yard penalty, and the penalty for the foul or fouls committed by the other team is for a five-yard penalty without an automatic First Down, a loss of down, or a 10-second runoff (15 yards versus five yards), or that is not a spot foul, the 15-yard penalty is enforced from the previous spot, and the five-yard penalty is disregarded. Five vs. 15 enforcement cannot be declined by the team that committed the minor foul, except as described in (2) below. See 4-8-2-h and 14-4-9-Item 3-Exc. 1 for dead ball fouls at the end of a half.
  
  
• If one of the fouls is a Dead Ball Foul for delay of game for spiking the ball and the opponent’s foul is a Live Ball Foul, the team that committed the delay of game foul, in addition to Article 1 above, will have the option to decline the foul committed by its opponent and be assessed the penalty for delay from the dead-ball spot.
  
  
• If both fouls are Dead Ball Fouls or are treated as such (14-4-9), the penalties are offset, and the ball is next put in play at the succeeding spot, unless the Dead Ball fouls occur after the ball has been made ready for play, in which case 5 vs. 15 enforcement applies.

As the rules state above, sometimes the 5-yard penalty (depending on the type of penalty) is disregarded when the other team is flagged for a 15-yard penalty.

That said, you cannot really compare penalties based on yardage because 5-yard penalties are the minimum pre-defined yardage numbers and 15-yard penalties are the max pre-defined yardage penalties.

Of course there are non-predefined yardage penalties such as pass interference, but sometimes a player may commit a penalty as a direct result of the penalty the other team committed prior to that in the same play.

If they were going to enforce both penalties, the NFL would need to increase the yardage of various 15-yard penalties to reflect the seriousness of those as compared to lining up offsides, illegal contact, etc.

You also can't compare them because a lot of defensive penalties come with an automatic first down, which is worth way more than the penalty yardage itself, and at least one offensive penalty (grounding) comes with loss of down.

 

[JD_KaPow]

Off topic but I would like the not so obvious false starts penalties to not be a dead ball penalty. We have seen plays where defense made a play only for the play to not count due to a false start.

My thinking is that if it is a free play for the offense for defensive offsides, why not make it a free play for the defense for the false start.

To be all technical about it, false starts occur before the ball is snapped, before there's an actual Offsides isn't technically a penalty until the ball is snapped and the play has started: that's why you can have a free play with an offsides. Guys can jump offside and get back in time before the snap and there's no penalty.

Encroachment (making contact with an offensive player) and neutral zone infractions (where the defensive player's motion causes an offensive player to false-start) are versions of offsides, but they occur pre-snap, which is why the officials stop things in those cases without allowing a free play.

I suppose they could change it, but it would be a weird thing to enforce. If an OLman jumps but they don't stop things, I suppose he could just reset himself before they snap it and there'd be no penalty.