Law School Advice

[kTXe]

I start law school at UNC in a week, and was wondering if any lawyers here had some pearls of wisdom for my next 3 years. I took the advice of a few recently-graduated friends and basically took the entire summer off to sit around and drink beer, but now school is right around the corner and anxiety has set in...:

Oh, and peplaw, don't hold my school of choice against me.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Yeah, get into Intellectual Property Law. :laugh2:

 

[peplaw06]

You shoulda gone to the school about 9 miles northeast...

As for advice... it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. It's hard work, especially that first semester. Put everything aside for the first year. My school wouldn't "let us" get a job for the first year. I think that's a good idea. Just work your butt off the first semester, and you will get a system down for the second semester and second and third years, and it will get easier.

But the Bar Exam... It's every bit as bad as people make it out to be... at least it was in Texas.

 

[bbgun]

My nephew started at U. of Arizona law school yesterday. I guess he didn't read the headlines about job prospects and "law school bubbles" and such. Of course, his parents are paying the freight, so he won't be saddled with massive debt in three years.

 

[kTXe]

You shoulda gone to the school about 9 miles northeast...

As for advice... it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. It's hard work, especially that first semester. Put everything aside for the first year. My school wouldn't "let us" get a job for the first year. I think that's a good idea. Just work your butt off the first semester, and you will get a system down for the second semester and second and third years, and it will get easier.

But the Bar Exam... It's every bit as bad as people make it out to be... at least it was in Texas.

UNC similarly "strongly recommends" not working as a 1L, which I was glad to hear. I wasn't planning on working anyway, but now I won't feel as guilty seeing the one-way trip money takes away from my bank account.

The girlfriend has already been warned that I won't be around that much this semester, though I don't think she's that torn up about it. I'm just not looking forward to this semester of "figuring things out". I know there will be quite a bit of trial-and-error before find exactly what methods work for me, I just hope it doesn't take too long!

My nephew started at U. of Arizona law school yesterday. I guess he didn't read the headlines about job prospects and "law school bubbles" and such. Of course, his parents are paying the freight, so he won't be saddled with massive debt in three years.

Yeah, law school nowadays is quite the gamble. Though if you have parents willing/able to pay for it, the risk is certainly lessened (I'm not quite that fortunate). Both Arizona and UNC are pretty strong regional schools, though, with decent job prospects. There is certainly still a lot to worry about, but the kids being duped into paying $30-$40k a year to a 3rd or 4th tier law school are taking a significantly bigger gamble considering the lack of job prospects for those graduates, particularly.

 

[DFWJC]

Blue Heaven, baby!
Chapel Hill is awesome.

The Law school is very strong....not at the Harvard, Yale, Columbia, UVa level...but way up there.

I was curious, so I looked up a few others. Texas has a very strong program too.

As a Law student, you are going to have access to Duke/UNC hoops tickets. Perfect timing, because the 'Heels are going to be sick this year.

 

[kTXe]

Blue Heaven, baby!
Chapel Hill is awesome.

The Law school is very strong....not at the Harvard, Yale, Columbia, UVa level...but way up there.

I was curious, so I looked up a few others. Texas has a very strong program too.

As a Law student, you are going to have access to Duke/UNC hoops tickets. Perfect timing, because the 'Heels are going to be sick this year.

I love Chapel Hill. Been here for 9 years...can't believe it was that long ago I started undergrad. It was a nice perk that I didn't have to move for school (I could probably walk to the law school from my house, actually...too bad I'm a lazy ***). Oh yeah, and those basketball tickets will be a pretty nice perk, too.

 

[theogt]

Work your *** off. Be prepared to do nothing else for one year of your life. Everything after first year doesn't matter, but your first year grades can make or break you. If you excel in this one year of your life, doors will open for you automatically.

I'd suggest the book "Getting to Maybe". It does a good job of showing how the law is a weird combination of a binary, logical, rote system and a fuzzy, subjective system. Once you figure out what I mean by that, you'll ace through school.

Take a look at some old outlines, see what they look like. Then create your own. Read the material before class sufficiently so that you understand what the professor is saying before he says it. Create your outlines while you're reading the material. Then use the lecture time to refine your outline and expand your understanding of what the professor thinks the law is.

There are two keys to law school: (1) understanding what game is being played, and (2) working your *** off to play the game better than everyone else. If you don't get (1), then (2) is useless. And if you don't do (2), then (1) is useless.

Your first year is a marathon. You will burn out multiple times. But just keep plugging through it because it eventually ends and you get your life back.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Make friends. Law school is cliquish and competitive even in your 2nd and 3rd year. So the more you prepare with others and share information, the better off you'll be.

Recommended prep text: Analytic Jurisprudence by Anthony D'amato.

Very good break down of the basics.

 

[bbgun]

Yeah, law school nowadays is quite the gamble. Though if you have parents willing/able to pay for it, the risk is certainly lessened (I'm not quite that fortunate). Both Arizona and UNC are pretty strong regional schools, though, with decent job prospects. There is certainly still a lot to worry about, but the kids being duped into paying $30-$40k a year to a 3rd or 4th tier law school are taking a significantly bigger gamble considering the lack of job prospects for those graduates, particularly.

If you go to second-tier school like AZ, you better have the grades. It's not enough to merely survive or get through. My nephew was also accepted by Marquette, but the tuition would have been insane. He was waitlisted at AZ for months, and only got in after telephoning the Dean of Admissions and asking for some sort of quick resolution. Since he's from AZ, his parents will benefit from in-state tuition (still pricy, though).

 

[DFWJC]

If you go to second-tier school like AZ, you better have the grades. It's not enough to merely survive or get through. My nephew was also accepted by Marquette, but the tuition would have been insane. He was waitlisted at AZ for months, and only got in after telephoning the Dean of Admissions and asking for some sort of quick resolution. Since he's from AZ, his parents will benefit from in-state tuition (still pricy, though).

Wow..he lucked out. Seeing that Uof A is ranked about 40-50 slots higher than Marquette. Better school, less money, and infinitely hotter women.

 

[Hostile]

Wow..he lucked out. Seeing that Uof A is ranked about 40-50 slots higher than Marquette. Better school, less money, and infinitely hotter women.

Yes sir. But now my daughter is one of them so people need to beware.

 

[kTXe]

Work your *** off. Be prepared to do nothing else for one year of your life. Everything after first year doesn't matter, but your first year grades can make or break you. If you excel in this one year of your life, doors will open for you automatically.

I'd suggest the book "Getting to Maybe". It does a good job of showing how the law is a weird combination of a binary, logical, rote system and a fuzzy, subjective system. Once you figure out what I mean by that, you'll ace through school.

Take a look at some old outlines, see what they look like. Then create your own. Read the material before class sufficiently so that you understand what the professor is saying before he says it. Create your outlines while you're reading the material. Then use the lecture time to refine your outline and expand your understanding of what the professor thinks the law is.

There are two keys to law school: (1) understanding what game is being played, and (2) working your *** off to play the game better than everyone else. If you don't get (1), then (2) is useless. And if you don't do (2), then (1) is useless.

Your first year is a marathon. You will burn out multiple times. But just keep plugging through it because it eventually ends and you get your life back.

Thanks for the great advice. Several people have recommended "Getting to Maybe" to me...perhaps I should finally take everyone's advice and read it.

If you go to second-tier school like AZ, you better have the grades. It's not enough to merely survive or get through. My nephew was also accepted by Marquette, but the tuition would have been insane. He was waitlisted at AZ for months, and only got in after telephoning the Dean of Admissions and asking for some sort of quick resolution. Since he's from AZ, his parents will benefit from in-state tuition (still pricy, though).

I think most people define Tier 2 law schools as those ranked 50-100 (though the line between tier 1 and 2 is murky at best), so I don't know that I would call it second-tier. Doesn't change that what you say is completely true re:grades. Honestly, if you aren't a student at one of the top 14 law schools (I know 14 seems like an arbitrary number, but it's not), then simply graduating isn't enough to land a great job.

 

[bbgun]

Thanks for the great advice. Several people have recommended "Getting to Maybe" to me...perhaps I should finally take everyone's advice and read it.


I think most people define Tier 2 law schools as those ranked 50-100 (though the line between tier 1 and 2 is murky at best), so I don't know that I would call it second-tier. Doesn't change that what you say is completely true re:grades. Honestly, if you aren't a student at one of the top 14 law schools (I know 14 seems like an arbitrary number, but it's not), then simply graduating isn't enough to land a great job.

I probably should have said "non-elite." A student with a C average at Harvard is probably more attractive to employers than a B student at Arizona or Wisconsin.

 

[theogt]

Thanks for the great advice. Several people have recommended "Getting to Maybe" to me...perhaps I should finally take everyone's advice and read it.


I think most people define Tier 2 law schools as those ranked 50-100 (though the line between tier 1 and 2 is murky at best), so I don't know that I would call it second-tier. Doesn't change that what you say is completely true re:grades. Honestly, if you aren't a student at one of the top 14 law schools (I know 14 seems like an arbitrary number, but it's not), then simply graduating isn't enough to land a great job.

Lucky for you, the job market next summer/fall will be the hottest its been in years. My firm, for example, is significantly expanding the summer class (and upping the frivolity of the program as well, thank god). Most are.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

In terms of getting a job, knowing people and making friends is also important there too.

Good luck. It's not all that hard to get into law school these days. The tough part is paying for it... and yeah, it's not undergrad anymore.

 

[bbgun]

From a website about biggest college regrets:

“The day that I signed on the dotted line of my promissory note, I didn’t even understand what it would mean to have to pay back more than $40,000 in student loans. I’ll tell you what it means: living in a crappy apartment in Queens well into my 30s. I vaguely remember my dad trying to get the message through to me, but I must have had cotton in my teenage ears.”

 

[kTXe]

I probably should have said "non-elite." A student with a C average at Harvard is probably more attractive to employers than a B student at Arizona or Wisconsin.

Oh, absolutely.

Lucky for you, the job market next summer/fall will be the hottest its been in years. My firm, for example, is significantly expanding the summer class (and upping the frivolity of the program as well, thank god). Most are.

That's great to hear. I'm praying that my first semester grades make me attractive enough to land a paid summer job. Pulling in a little bit of money while I'm on a break from school would help to ease the pain of student loans.

In terms of getting a job, knowing people and making friends is also important there too.

Good luck. It's not all that hard to get into law school these days. The tough part is paying for it... and yeah, it's not undergrad anymore.

The lower-tiered law schools that are easy to get into are bordering on complete scams. People that aren't doing their research are ending up with crushing debt and an almost useless JD. The tier 1 schools are still viable, though.

Honestly, I probably shouldn't have had a chance to get into a tier 1 law school considering how terribly I did in undergrad. Thank God for the LSAT.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Takes awhile to adjust to law after your undergrad. I studied the same way I did in undergrad during first year and while I did fine, I changed in 2nd and 3rd year and my marks went way up.

The weirdest part is that in law, your entire grade is on one exam. Blow it and you are doomed.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Oh, absolutely.

That's great to hear. I'm praying that my first semester grades make me attractive enough to land a paid summer job. Pulling in a little bit of money while I'm on a break from school would help to ease the pain of student loans.

The lower-tiered law schools that are easy to get into are bordering on complete scams. People that aren't doing their research are ending up with crushing debt and an almost useless JD. The tier 1 schools are still viable, though.

Honestly, I probably shouldn't have had a chance to get into a tier 1 law school considering how terribly I did in undergrad. Thank God for the LSAT.

It won't ever be useless if you're business minded. If you think business comes to you, then it won't. Seriously, though, the school is important. But it's what you take to the real world that will ultimately count.